So yes, 1 day after I got permission to buy a bike, I did. It's been a long time since I've done a restoration (ground up) on something, so I thought it would be a fun project for the election time since my business is going to be closed starting Friday.
The bike.
So it's a DMC Honda 88 (I think). It's been bodged together with so many fake Citi 100 plastic bits and cheap spray paint that it's hard to tell. Either way, it has an 88cc engine made by Honda (not Daelim, verified already by opening it up), a 4 speed gearbox, and the bike does not run at all. My brother in law sold it to me after not being able to get it started at the mechanic's. I found a few interesting things, but here's why you shouldn't trust a shady Khmer seller.
What I found:
The engine had about a liter a water in the crankcase
Every electronic bit on the bike was fried. Not one light, gauge, or relay worked unsurprisingly
The hubs were cracked
The wheels were cracked as well (hard to see unless you cleaned them, but the tires went flat within minutes)
The wiring harness was so badly miswired (positives going to negatives everywhere) that I have no doubt that a gorilla with brain impairments tried to fix it.
MOST IMPORTANTLY, every piece of plastic and cosmetic piece was cleaned up and repainted to make the bike look alright. This is very common of resellers here I've noticed. BE CAREFUL, just because it looks okay, doesn't mean jack.
My brother in law bought this damn thing for $260, or about 3/4 the price of a decent condition Citi 100. What he ended up with was an 88cc (smaller engine), older, and much much crappier bike that is damn near useless.
So, the only thing to do is to blow the thing up.
**KABOOM**
The engine. Having just one piston doesn't mean there aren't hundreds of pieces.
The body (the easiest part of the bike to paint to make it look alright). All of these plastics can probably be had for just $15-20 and paint for another $5.
So, that's what you're bike pretty much looks like when it's down to the frame. I'm going to turn it into something that's useful and something that works eventually, as it irks me when stupid reseller slap crap together and sell it with a shiny body to make a quick buck. Project "Polished Turd" may not be a simple task, but I like a challenge.
I'll be snapping pictures on the way, and again, if you want me to compose a guide on how to fix your moto, I will if there's enough interest (please post in other thread here, otherwise I wont know). If there's not much interest in a walkthrough guide, I'll just load up pictures as the build progresses which is much easier for me to do.
-AK87
If you're interested, it took me about 90 minutes to break the bike down to it's current state with a powered 1/4" drive wrench, spanners and an impact wrench for the big bolts. If I didn't have power tools, 3 hours.
What's Your Moto Made Of? (Moto Restoration thread)
Project has gone very slowly because my wife got ill yesterday so I've been making sure she's alright. Now that she is though, I got to spend another hour or so with the bike and got familiar with what I was looking at.
Down to the bare frame now minus stand obviously and front wheel. I find it easier to work on the bike this way.
This is the entire skeleton that is supporting you and everything you carry. Sort of scary to think that everything is resting on a single hollow tube with a few stamped steel panels doesn't it?
My little girl Kyoko here to help me all the way from Japan.
Electrical birdsnest #1
Electrical birdsnest #2
Surprisingly the Japanese/Korean harness in this bike is the same quality as the typical Chinese bikes. This doesn't mean the Korean harness is a bad one, it actually means the Chinese one's are pretty good believe it or not. Japan market bikes use a strong harness, but the finding the Japan/Korean harness is of the same quality as a Chinese bike is very surprising, and consequently, gives me a bit of courage that not all Chinese stuff is crap.
Also surprising to me is the level of finish on the Japanese/Korean frame. It's terrible. The paint on this frame is original (the plastics aren't original but the frame is) and you can tell because there is only one finish on the bike, meaning it's one single uniform coat so it's not like it's been resprayed by a Khmer bodge shop. Anyway, Honda uses such a thin coating of paint that it's appalling. I'd say there is not more than 1 very thin coat of clearcoat and MAYBE 2 thin rapidly applied coats of paint. Yes it's a budget minded bike and such, but the total lack of paint on this bike makes me question why Honda would put such a thin finish on one of their products. Seems like even Honda is susceptible to cost cutting.
Alright, signing off, going to bed.
Down to the bare frame now minus stand obviously and front wheel. I find it easier to work on the bike this way.
This is the entire skeleton that is supporting you and everything you carry. Sort of scary to think that everything is resting on a single hollow tube with a few stamped steel panels doesn't it?
My little girl Kyoko here to help me all the way from Japan.
Electrical birdsnest #1
Electrical birdsnest #2
Surprisingly the Japanese/Korean harness in this bike is the same quality as the typical Chinese bikes. This doesn't mean the Korean harness is a bad one, it actually means the Chinese one's are pretty good believe it or not. Japan market bikes use a strong harness, but the finding the Japan/Korean harness is of the same quality as a Chinese bike is very surprising, and consequently, gives me a bit of courage that not all Chinese stuff is crap.
Also surprising to me is the level of finish on the Japanese/Korean frame. It's terrible. The paint on this frame is original (the plastics aren't original but the frame is) and you can tell because there is only one finish on the bike, meaning it's one single uniform coat so it's not like it's been resprayed by a Khmer bodge shop. Anyway, Honda uses such a thin coating of paint that it's appalling. I'd say there is not more than 1 very thin coat of clearcoat and MAYBE 2 thin rapidly applied coats of paint. Yes it's a budget minded bike and such, but the total lack of paint on this bike makes me question why Honda would put such a thin finish on one of their products. Seems like even Honda is susceptible to cost cutting.
Alright, signing off, going to bed.
You could possibly use Mikey from the American Chopper as a mentor, or Chum Lee from Pawn Star.
Isn't it a reference to all of themthat I have no doubt that a gorilla with brain impairments tried to fix it.
"OM Shanti"
Looks like you could also start up ninjitsu classes in your spare time - that engine has some lethal throwing pieces!
Meum est propositum in taberna mori,
ut sint Guinness proxima morientis ori.
tunc cantabunt letius angelorum chori:
"Sit Deus propitius huic potatori."
ut sint Guinness proxima morientis ori.
tunc cantabunt letius angelorum chori:
"Sit Deus propitius huic potatori."
- Felgerkarb
- Sir Felgerkarb, Kt Pb
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- Joined: Mon Jun 18, 2007 3:22 am
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Great thread! Keep it coming!
====================
Why are the gods such vicious cunts?
Where is the god of tits and wine?
Why are the gods such vicious cunts?
Where is the god of tits and wine?
**EDIT** 8 PM same day, I might have found a potential buyer already so I think I'll continue the project as is.
Deleted for clean up.
Deleted for clean up.
Last edited by AK87 on Fri Aug 02, 2013 9:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Assuming, the, plate belongs to the, bike, and you can get a letter of sale from the person named at the MOT as the plate owner ...$300.JimSocks wrote:how much would it cost to get new papers?
Rated R for Ricecakes
Okay, progress
The biggest hangup was this thing here, the cases.
Original engine was lunched, cracked input AND output shaft bearing housings.
Only option is to have a new set shipped over.......$$$ They arrived today thank goodness, so now I can get down to business.
Now everyone I know, INCLUDING Japanese and Western mechanics, say that bearings need to be pressed in or hammered in with the assistance of heat on these engines. Even Honda builders have told me this, but they're wrong. I press the bearings in with my hand. I simply bake the case at 170C for 5 minutes and then press in the bearing. You have less than half a second to do so, so it's tricky, but possible.
It's my absolute favorite way because it requires no pounding and there's zero change of damaging any of the bearing races.
No pounding, no frills, 4 hand pressed bearings. Also works for hubs and wheel bearings believe it or not.
Had a very light clean up pass done on a plane as the head was in fact warped slightly. The heads on these are NOT happy when you plane them down.
Before
After, Oo, shiny.
Valve grinding compound
Seats ground
Carb cleaner test. No leakage after 5 minutes, I'd say it passed.
Time taken: 57 minutes
That's all folks, going to bed now, had a long day today and want to hit the sack.
The biggest hangup was this thing here, the cases.
Original engine was lunched, cracked input AND output shaft bearing housings.
Only option is to have a new set shipped over.......$$$ They arrived today thank goodness, so now I can get down to business.
Now everyone I know, INCLUDING Japanese and Western mechanics, say that bearings need to be pressed in or hammered in with the assistance of heat on these engines. Even Honda builders have told me this, but they're wrong. I press the bearings in with my hand. I simply bake the case at 170C for 5 minutes and then press in the bearing. You have less than half a second to do so, so it's tricky, but possible.
It's my absolute favorite way because it requires no pounding and there's zero change of damaging any of the bearing races.
No pounding, no frills, 4 hand pressed bearings. Also works for hubs and wheel bearings believe it or not.
Had a very light clean up pass done on a plane as the head was in fact warped slightly. The heads on these are NOT happy when you plane them down.
Before
After, Oo, shiny.
Valve grinding compound
Seats ground
Carb cleaner test. No leakage after 5 minutes, I'd say it passed.
Time taken: 57 minutes
That's all folks, going to bed now, had a long day today and want to hit the sack.
Nice updates AK!
When it comes to the bearings; I replaced the roller-bearings of my front wheel yesterday: I used a very fine glass paper to clean the hub (after hammering the old ones out, which left some minor scratches), I put the new ones in the freezer for a night (the rim I put outside in the sun) and I lubricated the hub with some motor oil prior to assemble them. Went all smooth.
I marked the outer bearing-ring and the hub, checked today and everything is still in the same position.
Any objections against freezing from your side?
Related to the casing: did you order that one online/overseas or can you buy these things from the shelve in PP?
Did you clean up the cylinder head by hand (I don't know its English name but I mean a special flat plain on which you use some abressive fluid) or by machine? Any pictures of this?
Just in case, do you know where I can order (online) a digital tachometer? Working principle based on ignition or infrared? If not too expensive I would like to install it permanently on my bike(s), if not just a handheld. Main purpose is to optimize the air-fuel mixture. Now I'm used to do this mainly based on the color of my spark-plug in combination with my feeling.(test driving). Any thoughts?
Regards,
Edit: Do you buy the valve grinder compound locally?
When it comes to the bearings; I replaced the roller-bearings of my front wheel yesterday: I used a very fine glass paper to clean the hub (after hammering the old ones out, which left some minor scratches), I put the new ones in the freezer for a night (the rim I put outside in the sun) and I lubricated the hub with some motor oil prior to assemble them. Went all smooth.
I marked the outer bearing-ring and the hub, checked today and everything is still in the same position.
Any objections against freezing from your side?
Related to the casing: did you order that one online/overseas or can you buy these things from the shelve in PP?
Did you clean up the cylinder head by hand (I don't know its English name but I mean a special flat plain on which you use some abressive fluid) or by machine? Any pictures of this?
Just in case, do you know where I can order (online) a digital tachometer? Working principle based on ignition or infrared? If not too expensive I would like to install it permanently on my bike(s), if not just a handheld. Main purpose is to optimize the air-fuel mixture. Now I'm used to do this mainly based on the color of my spark-plug in combination with my feeling.(test driving). Any thoughts?
Regards,
Edit: Do you buy the valve grinder compound locally?
Alright,
Freezing I have no objection to, I just don't see the point if you heat up the hub or whatever it is you press the bearing into. Also, for freezing bearings, you only need to put it in the freezer for an hour or so before it gets "frozen". If you are doing piston pins though I definitely recommend freezing as you need all the help you can get. Liquid Nitrogen would be even better.
Cases, mine were ordered and shipped. You can get used ones here but they aren't what I'd call, "economical". If you see my engine, it was cracked very deeply and you couldn't see it until you sanded it down.
Tach? http://www.japan.webike.net They are $80? not including shipping and they are build for Cubs and use a hall sensor on the HT lead. There are others but I am not sure where. Webike is expensive though but they carry good stuff.
Valve grinding compound, my supplier has some but she told me that no one buys it because no one knows what the heck it is. Guess valves don't matter here or something. Anyway, she has a whole case full and the box was unopened when I visited her. She was happy to finally sell some to me that she gave me extra for free.
EDIT: Planing the head I don't recommend with sandpaper and hand because there's no way you're going to get it perfectly flat, nor are you going to get a good consistent finish (see all the "cut" marks on the head are straight and uniform). I've done 1000 grit before just to get the old gasket material off but that's as far as I'd go.
Freezing I have no objection to, I just don't see the point if you heat up the hub or whatever it is you press the bearing into. Also, for freezing bearings, you only need to put it in the freezer for an hour or so before it gets "frozen". If you are doing piston pins though I definitely recommend freezing as you need all the help you can get. Liquid Nitrogen would be even better.
Cases, mine were ordered and shipped. You can get used ones here but they aren't what I'd call, "economical". If you see my engine, it was cracked very deeply and you couldn't see it until you sanded it down.
Tach? http://www.japan.webike.net They are $80? not including shipping and they are build for Cubs and use a hall sensor on the HT lead. There are others but I am not sure where. Webike is expensive though but they carry good stuff.
Valve grinding compound, my supplier has some but she told me that no one buys it because no one knows what the heck it is. Guess valves don't matter here or something. Anyway, she has a whole case full and the box was unopened when I visited her. She was happy to finally sell some to me that she gave me extra for free.
EDIT: Planing the head I don't recommend with sandpaper and hand because there's no way you're going to get it perfectly flat, nor are you going to get a good consistent finish (see all the "cut" marks on the head are straight and uniform). I've done 1000 grit before just to get the old gasket material off but that's as far as I'd go.
Hi AK, thanks for replying.AK87 wrote:Alright,
Freezing I have no objection to, I just don't see the point if you heat up the hub or whatever it is you press the bearing into. Also, for freezing bearings, you only need to put it in the freezer for an hour or so before it gets "frozen". If you are doing piston pins though I definitely recommend freezing as you need all the help you can get. Liquid Nitrogen would be even better.
Cases, mine were ordered and shipped. You can get used ones here but they aren't what I'd call, "economical". If you see my engine, it was cracked very deeply and you couldn't see it until you sanded it down.
Tach? http://www.japan.webike.net They are $80? not including shipping and they are build for Cubs and use a hall sensor on the HT lead. There are others but I am not sure where. Webike is expensive though but they carry good stuff.
Valve grinding compound, my supplier has some but she told me that no one buys it because no one knows what the heck it is. Guess valves don't matter here or something. Anyway, she has a whole case full and the box was unopened when I visited her. She was happy to finally sell some to me that she gave me extra for free.
EDIT: Planing the head I don't recommend with sandpaper and hand because there's no way you're going to get it perfectly flat, nor are you going to get a good consistent finish (see all the "cut" marks on the head are straight and uniform). I've done 1000 grit before just to get the old gasket material off but that's as far as I'd go.
How do you heat your parts? Do you put it in a oven or with a blower or...? Despite the fact that I don't have these tools I was also scared for the paint of my rims which made me decide on freezing. I agree with you that one night was a little overkill.
Thanks for your link to the web shop; when ordering items, do you send them to a legal address or a PO-box or your local PO? Any recommendations?
When it comes manually machining the cylinder-head: I was rather thinking about a surface plate in combination with some grinding paste, but on the other hand, a surface plate will cost me probably 1000 times more than bring it to a workshop. The only advantage of the surface plate is that I can do it myself instead of putting my fate in the hands of a local...
I have a stove that I set the parts on, very low tech. Usually paint, unless it's cheap, can tolerate 200 F (90 C) for short bursts of time. That's the curing temp of the paint from the factory anyway. If it's the cases, they usually have no paint, so I heat them to 300 F ish.
Parts, I have a business address they send to through DHL.
When I bought my "manual plane machine" meaning I actually made it, I thought I would do a lot more engines than I have. So far it hasn't nearly paid for itself, and probably never will, oh well.
Alright, more fun on the way:
Kyoko says it's gearbox time.
This is actually a modified gearbox, meaning it's meant to take a bit more power than the original Thai boxes. Not sure if you can see the machine marks or not but anyway, it's made of very tough steel, not sure if it's forged or not, but it's HEAVY. I thought I was going to keep the bike when I thought it had papers, but once I found my brother lost it, well.....anyway, waste of money to get a nice transmission like this for a regular bike. This transmission should be good up to 18 bhp (more than double a standard 110cc engine produces).
All in and done.
Engine is sealed now and gasketed up (pics later) ready to....sit and get built upon more.
Parts, I have a business address they send to through DHL.
When I bought my "manual plane machine" meaning I actually made it, I thought I would do a lot more engines than I have. So far it hasn't nearly paid for itself, and probably never will, oh well.
Alright, more fun on the way:
Kyoko says it's gearbox time.
This is actually a modified gearbox, meaning it's meant to take a bit more power than the original Thai boxes. Not sure if you can see the machine marks or not but anyway, it's made of very tough steel, not sure if it's forged or not, but it's HEAVY. I thought I was going to keep the bike when I thought it had papers, but once I found my brother lost it, well.....anyway, waste of money to get a nice transmission like this for a regular bike. This transmission should be good up to 18 bhp (more than double a standard 110cc engine produces).
All in and done.
Engine is sealed now and gasketed up (pics later) ready to....sit and get built upon more.
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