Cambodia in the NYT
Cambodia in the NYT
http://www.nytimes.com/video/travel/100 ... d=fb-share
Yeah,yeah.
You know? As much as this is flashpackery yuppie travel bullshit, when it could be showcasing oh I don't know, Cambodian people, at least Cambodia is in the news for something other then feeding the NGO agenda. The Cambodian people need more of this type of press and less Angelina Jolie. Seriously, lets progress already.
Yeah,yeah.
You know? As much as this is flashpackery yuppie travel bullshit, when it could be showcasing oh I don't know, Cambodian people, at least Cambodia is in the news for something other then feeding the NGO agenda. The Cambodian people need more of this type of press and less Angelina Jolie. Seriously, lets progress already.
Last edited by JackRoad on Tue Jul 28, 2015 4:30 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Oh please, give us a break with this “feeding the NGO agenda” horseshit.
Puff pieces about Angkor-Siem Reap (“number one destination in the world!” etc.) and its tourism, culture and archaeology have been a staple of major papers’ travel, science and news sections for years now, not to mention travel mags and cable TV and so on. Plus almost all of the major headlines on NGOs for a couple of years now have been negative.
I don’t know that I’d call it “progress” exactly but it’s pretty clear who needs to move on here, and I don't think it's the international media.
ooo touch a nerve.
I'd say there is a noticeable difference between NYT Cambodia coverage that is not talking about human trafficking etc. and "Puff pieces" on travel blogs.
What was different about this particular piece that made me post it was the general positive tone ie. no angle like "Clawing their was back from the Khmer Rouge...", "Visit the temples and pop into an orphanage...", in fact if you are familiar with said staples of major papers and you watched this one you would have noticed production value being plused as well.
Why you wouldn't call it progress is beyond me. Its promoting Cambodia through the Circus, Local restaurants, shops, even eff'n mini golf and locally sourced products. VS. Come see the temples, come see the temples, come see the temples. Cambodia is more then that but I guarantee you if you go back through all of those Puff pieces you mention you wont find very much content that doesn't include extensive temple coverage and no mention of Khmer Rouge.
I am by no means saying it shouldn't be a part of the conversation, but when is it going to stop being THE conversation. Most of my Cambodian friends, like most of the population were born after 1979, let them stop having to answer for their history. But do you know who won't let them, all the do gooders, who are so self serving its disgusting. Just because they're getting negative attention lately doesn't mean they still aren't holding the breaks on progress for their own survival. Hopefully the National Average Cambodian salary can raise a few hundred $ soon and then they will have no choice but to go.
I'd say there is a noticeable difference between NYT Cambodia coverage that is not talking about human trafficking etc. and "Puff pieces" on travel blogs.
What was different about this particular piece that made me post it was the general positive tone ie. no angle like "Clawing their was back from the Khmer Rouge...", "Visit the temples and pop into an orphanage...", in fact if you are familiar with said staples of major papers and you watched this one you would have noticed production value being plused as well.
Why you wouldn't call it progress is beyond me. Its promoting Cambodia through the Circus, Local restaurants, shops, even eff'n mini golf and locally sourced products. VS. Come see the temples, come see the temples, come see the temples. Cambodia is more then that but I guarantee you if you go back through all of those Puff pieces you mention you wont find very much content that doesn't include extensive temple coverage and no mention of Khmer Rouge.
I am by no means saying it shouldn't be a part of the conversation, but when is it going to stop being THE conversation. Most of my Cambodian friends, like most of the population were born after 1979, let them stop having to answer for their history. But do you know who won't let them, all the do gooders, who are so self serving its disgusting. Just because they're getting negative attention lately doesn't mean they still aren't holding the breaks on progress for their own survival. Hopefully the National Average Cambodian salary can raise a few hundred $ soon and then they will have no choice but to go.
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Yeah, that would be the “call out a fucking stupid comment when I see one” nerve.JackRoad wrote:ooo touch a nerve.
Someone with more time and patience than I have may explain it further, but there is a recent history of very positive pieces on Siem Reap-Angkor that anyone who keeps an eye on these things will tell you has become the norm for years now.JackRoad wrote:I'd say there is a noticeable difference between NYT Cambodia coverage that is not talking about human trafficking etc. and "Puff pieces" on travel blogs.
Many of those those pieces naturally make the obligatory throwaway reference to the DK period, as have some puff-pieces in the NYT in recent years, and maybe it's significant that the latest NYT piece doesn't (I doubt it).
However, I guarantee that if you put it to the travel writer that they'd finally thrown in the towel on "feeding an NGO agenda" they would find it hilarious. I know a lot of travel writers, and they are flat-out feeding themselves, let alone any kind of grand political agenda.
Anyway, it's great that you've noticed a trend that's been going on for 5 or 10 years now. Better late than never
Totally agree. 99% of pieces about Cambodia seem to promote orphanage or voyeuristic tourism more than mainstream stuff.JR wrote:What was different about this particular piece that made me post it was the general positive tone ie. no angle like "Clawing their was back from the Khmer Rouge...", "Visit the temples and pop into an orphanage...", in fact if you are familiar with said staples of major papers and you watched this one you would have noticed production value being plused as well.
But wait! Surely shitegeist will come up with half a dozen links and references, some of which 5-10 years old, to back up his claims, right?
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But wait just a little bit more!logos wrote: But wait!
Surely shitegeist will come up with half a dozen links and references, some of which 5-10 years old, to back up his claims, right?
Surely logos will not fail to come up with half a dozen links and references, some of which are just minutes old, for the very latest Cambodia Travel or (more relevant) Siem Reap Travel news, remembering that in the first instance JackRoad brought up this week's travel piece on Siem Reap in support of his "NGO agenda".....
Right?
Last edited by shitegeist on Mon Jul 27, 2015 8:18 am, edited 1 time in total.
Why are people so fixated on the so-called "NGO Agenda", whatever that is?
Do expats and tourists want to live in and visit Cambodia with blinkers?
I'm sure there's a right balance to be made between poverty porn and rose-tinted bubble.
Do expats and tourists want to live in and visit Cambodia with blinkers?
I'm sure there's a right balance to be made between poverty porn and rose-tinted bubble.
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What else would teflers and destitute pensioners have to bitch and moan about over 50c beers?Joon wrote:Why are people so fixated on the so-called "NGO Agenda", whatever that is?
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shitegeist, what's your opinion of voluntourism? Sorry if it's slightly OT, but serious question.
I think it's relevant because the sellers doctor the truth.
Those that encourage it/live off it generally want a rosy picture of the destination, it's not really rose-tinted glasses, it's more (at best) 'marketing', and at worst, deceit.
I think any sensible person knows there are good NGOs and bad NGOs, and we should balance the view of the country. It's not as bad as some claim, nor as Eden-like as Australian govt officials want us to believe.
We should be wary of either extreme view.
I think it's relevant because the sellers doctor the truth.
Those that encourage it/live off it generally want a rosy picture of the destination, it's not really rose-tinted glasses, it's more (at best) 'marketing', and at worst, deceit.
I think any sensible person knows there are good NGOs and bad NGOs, and we should balance the view of the country. It's not as bad as some claim, nor as Eden-like as Australian govt officials want us to believe.
We should be wary of either extreme view.
ירי ילדים והפצצת אזרחים דורש אומץ, כמו גם הטרדה מינית של עובדי ההוראה.
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I don't understand your question. I don't work for the Australian Government, nor have I ever worked for an NGO. I think you may have me confused for someone else.vladimir wrote:shitegeist, what's your opinion of voluntourism? Sorry if it's slightly OT, but serious question.
I think it's relevant because the sellers doctor the truth.
Those that encourage it/live off it generally want a rosy picture of the destination, it's not really rose-tinted glasses, it's more (at best) 'marketing', and at worst, deceit.
I think any sensible person knows there are good NGOs and bad NGOs, and we should balance the view of the country. It's not as bad as some claim, nor as Eden-like as Australian govt officials want us to believe.
We should be wary of either extreme view.
Giving Vladimir the benefit of the doubt, I think he's just genuinely asking what is your opinion about voluntourism? Maybe about the concept itself, and how it is put into practice.
I think the following is just Vlad giving a general comment about the whole "NGO good or bad" debate.
I think the following is just Vlad giving a general comment about the whole "NGO good or bad" debate.
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I don’t think it is that benign actually, or that he should be given the benefit of the doubt.Joon wrote:Giving Vladimir the benefit of the doubt, I think he's just genuinely asking what is your opinion about voluntourism?
So: I don't know anything about "voluntourism". With the outfit I work for we bring students or interns over here and we pay for everything, all expenses. People are expected to work hard, and if they don’t, they get sent home. I’ve never had to send anyone home except a couple times for dengue. For every barang there is a SEAsian: the one funds the other.
I know lots of outfits in Cambodia who work on a similar model to this, and a lot of highly successful people come out of these programs, and their families go far. Fun fact: in none of these families does the man of the house spend his time posting 30,000 pieces of fucking nonsense on the internet per year.
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I've highlighted the question to assist you.shitegeist wrote:I don't understand your question. I don't work for the Australian Government, nor have I ever worked for an NGO. I think you may have me confused for someone else.vladimir wrote:shitegeist, what's your opinion of voluntourism? Sorry if it's slightly OT, but serious question.
I think it's relevant because the sellers doctor the truth.
Those that encourage it/live off it generally want a rosy picture of the destination, it's not really rose-tinted glasses, it's more (at best) 'marketing', and at worst, deceit.
I think any sensible person knows there are good NGOs and bad NGOs, and we should balance the view of the country. It's not as bad as some claim, nor as Eden-like as Australian govt officials want us to believe.
We should be wary of either extreme view.
I am not, nor did I ever, insinuate you work for the Australian government. I used them as an example of people colouring the truth for their own ends, I don't think any sensible person denies they are guilty of that.
From what I understand, your employer does not use/abuse voluntourism, they actually pay people (which is what any honest person should do).
I asked the question because you seem to be working in an environment where you may have come across abusers.
No offence meant.
ירי ילדים והפצצת אזרחים דורש אומץ, כמו גם הטרדה מינית של עובדי ההוראה.
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You haven't watched CNN recently. They're still running "CNN Heroes" shit that is pure NGO shilling and hasn't been updated for Somaly's fall from grace.shitegeist wrote:
Oh please, give us a break with this “feeding the NGO agenda” horseshit.
This video was pretty good but it just showcased the hipsterfication of tiny parts of central Siem Reap and Phnom Penh. There's a kind of flashpacker bubble that exists in the center of those two big tourist towns and has tiny offshoots in Kampot, Battambang and on Koh Rong (which are all still connected by tourist buses). The illusion is only broken by brief tuk tuk rides to the bus station - which are already featured on every single piece of GoPro footage ever taken in Cambodia. On the other hand it's nice to finally see the country presented in a similar light to Thailand and not as the mangled, lawless KR skeleton they claimed it was until the last few years or so.
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