New article today:
http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/inpict ... 34058.html
Harsh times.
Cambodian refugees deported from the states
-
- Making Khmer girls cry since 2003
- Reactions: 130
- Posts: 21358
- Joined: Thu Dec 11, 2003 10:15 pm
Harsh? The guy was involved in a robbery that resulted in murder when he was 19 or 20. I don't think deporting foreign murderers is terribly unfair.
Follow my lame Twitter feed: @gavin_mac
The guy had served his 12 years sentence, had a family of his own and looked back on track when he was hit by a retroactive law. Are such laws legal at all in a democracy ?
I'm all for expulsing foreign criminals but this looks , well, unamerican.
I'm all for expulsing foreign criminals but this looks , well, unamerican.
-
- Making Khmer girls cry since 2003
- Reactions: 130
- Posts: 21358
- Joined: Thu Dec 11, 2003 10:15 pm
The deportation process takes time, he might have been contesting the deportation order for a while, I don't think you get to stay after murdering someone just by pointibg out that you haven't murdered anyone else since getting out of prison.
Follow my lame Twitter feed: @gavin_mac
-
- Damn, I just saw my Internet Bill !
- Reactions: 3
- Posts: 4337
- Joined: Wed Aug 21, 2013 7:29 pm
Thank Christ nobody called him a Yuon. God only knows what crimes he would have committed....He was involved in a murder and tries to excuse his actions by playing the race card, or to be more specific, the yellow card...but the USA has shown him a red card...Could this have all been avoided if he'd gotten a green card?Kol remembers being harassed being called "chinks"...
Pulled in by what? Some supernatural force?Many of the neighborhoods where the Cambodian refugees were placed suffered from gang-related violence. Many young Cambodians were pulled into this cycle.
- Miguelito
- Ordinary Schmo
- Reactions: 219
- Posts: 7053
- Joined: Tue Jan 13, 2015 11:19 pm
- Location: Penh's Hill
A family of his own? It stated that he met his American wife here in Cambodia, then they fell in love, got married and had a child. So, if anything, he should be grateful that he came here and married her.logos wrote:The guy had served his 12 years sentence, had a family of his own and looked back on track when he was hit by a retroactive law. Are such laws legal at all in a democracy ?
I'm all for expulsing foreign criminals but this looks , well, unamerican.
And it doesn't say anything specific about him getting his life back on track other than becoming a prominent member in society. However, it does say his brother is currently in jail, and that he recently lost his job here in Cambodia, but doesn't say why.
It's not really sad -- we're all living here by choice. It's not like they're getting repatriated to some random war zone, getting sent to a shithole like Mogadishu or anything. They're Khmers getting sent back to Phnom Penh, a place that we all seem to think is not a bad choice to live in ourselves, not even being Khmer. Hopefully it may make someone in his former community think twice before committing a violent crime though.
- LTO
- The Internet is my Friend
- Reactions: 1
- Posts: 6412
- Joined: Tue Nov 02, 2010 9:10 pm
- Location: Srok Khmer
- Contact:
I am generally not very sympathetic to those who fail to get citizenship, commit major crimes and then whine about deportation, but the ex post facto application of the law, if that is what has happened here, does seem on the surface to be a violation of a Constitutionally guaranteed right. How can that happen? Or did it happen? I think that, generally speaking, in criminal matters even foreign nationals are protected by the rights guaranteed in the Constitution, including protection against ex post facto laws. Is it perhaps that the regulation/law that allows for the deportation of foreign criminals is not a matter of criminal law but administrative regulation/procedure related to immigration, and thus, not necessarily covered by constitutional protections?logos wrote:The guy had served his 12 years sentence, had a family of his own and looked back on track when he was hit by a retroactive law. Are such laws legal at all in a democracy ?
I'm all for expulsing foreign criminals but this looks , well, unamerican.
-
- Making Khmer girls cry since 2003
- Reactions: 130
- Posts: 21358
- Joined: Thu Dec 11, 2003 10:15 pm
The law is not retroactive. If you are convicted of serious crimes, like murder, you get deported after you serve your sentence. That's the way it's been for a long time, no one created a new law after the fact just to get rid of this guy.
If a Russian commits a robbery in Sihanoukville resulting in a Khmer being shot and killed, and then Cambodia deports him, will you folks be complaining about that? I've seen people here decry Cambodia's failure to deport to Westerner pedophiles, why wouldn't a sensible country want to deport a foreign convicted murderer?
If a Russian commits a robbery in Sihanoukville resulting in a Khmer being shot and killed, and then Cambodia deports him, will you folks be complaining about that? I've seen people here decry Cambodia's failure to deport to Westerner pedophiles, why wouldn't a sensible country want to deport a foreign convicted murderer?
Follow my lame Twitter feed: @gavin_mac
The retroactive laws, allowed noncitizens to be deported for committing certain crimes even if they were committed before the passage of the law.
With the authority of these laws, Sokhoeurn's eldest son, Hov Ly Kol was deported to Cambodia in 2010, at the age of 36, for gang-related crimes he had committed as a teenager in 1996, and for which he had paid his dues to society in a 12-year jail sentence.
When Kol left jail, he became a prominent community member, but he was torn from this community and his family when the authorities carried out his deportation order.
Having a little trouble reading, GM?gavinmac wrote:The law is not retroactive.
Nobody is arguing foreign murderer shouldn't be deported. However this sounds like a retroactive law to me and therefore yes, unconstitutional. The article might be biased but if those facts are right, then there's something wrong.
- Miguelito
- Ordinary Schmo
- Reactions: 219
- Posts: 7053
- Joined: Tue Jan 13, 2015 11:19 pm
- Location: Penh's Hill
Two things:logos wrote:The retroactive laws, allowed noncitizens to be deported for committing certain crimes even if they were committed before the passage of the law.
With the authority of these laws, Sokhoeurn's eldest son, Hov Ly Kol was deported to Cambodia in 2010, at the age of 36, for gang-related crimes he had committed as a teenager in 1996, and for which he had paid his dues to society in a 12-year jail sentence.
When Kol left jail, he became a prominent community member, but he was torn from this community and his family when the authorities carried out his deportation order.Having a little trouble reading, GM?gavinmac wrote:The law is not retroactive.
Nobody is arguing foreign murderer shouldn't be deported. However this sounds like a retroactive law to me and therefore yes, unconstitutional. The article might be biased but if those facts are right, then there's something wrong.
1) His crimes were committed in 1996, the same year Congress passed the Antiterrorism and Effective Death Penalty Act (AEDPA) and the Illegal Immigration Reform and Immigrant Responsibility Act (IIRIRA). I don't know which came first (his crime or the act), but they were the same year at least.
2) However, according to this, Logos is correct that "the laws were made to be retroactive, meaning that noncitizens could be deported for certain crimes even if they were committed before the passage of the law." What this means is that it is a ex post facto law, and in theory your argument that it is unconstitutional would stand as Congress is prohibited from passing ex post facto laws by clause 3 of Article I, Section 9 of the United States Constitution. As in any common law country, this has needed to be interpreted by the courts, which have laid out different categories of ex post facto laws (see Calder v. Bull). Here are two other examples of ex post facto laws deemed to be constitutionally legal (and I'm sorry, but I'm being lazy and this is just lifted from wiki):
Not all laws with retroactive effects have been held to be unconstitutional. One current U.S. law that has a retroactive effect is the Adam Walsh Child Protection and Safety Act of 2006. This law imposes new registration requirements on convicted sex offenders and also applies to offenders whose crimes were committed before the law was enacted. The U.S. Supreme Court ruled in Smith v. Doe (2003) that forcing sex offenders to register their whereabouts at regular intervals, and the posting of personal information about them on the Internet, do not violate the constitutional prohibition against ex post facto laws, because these laws do not impose any kind of punishment.
They are not being prosecuted for something which was not a crime when the activity took place. Unlike citizens there are shiploads of conditions under which an acquired right to residency can be revoked and a person deported. Tis a different thing it seems to me than a retroactive prosecution.
Sent from my Nexus 5X using Tapatalk
Sent from my Nexus 5X using Tapatalk
Don't blame me I voted for Sanders
- LTO
- The Internet is my Friend
- Reactions: 1
- Posts: 6412
- Joined: Tue Nov 02, 2010 9:10 pm
- Location: Srok Khmer
- Contact:
Whether it would be ex post facto or not does not necessarily apply to this case. As gavin pointed out, even before the passage of the 1996 law foreigners who committed major crimes like this guy were routinely deported under the law. It's not like the US never deported a foreign criminal before 1996. The 1996 law extended this to include more minor crimes, but that is not the case with this fellow who committed a major crime. He would have been deportable even without the 1996 law. (I am sure Gavin can correct me/say this better than me if I haven't got it exactly right.) And the 2002 agreement that allowed these sorts of people to be deported between the US and Cambodia was merely a normalization of deportation procedures between the two countries.Miguelito wrote:..What this means is that it is a ex post facto law, and in theory your argument that it is unconstitutional would stand as Congress is prohibited from passing ex post facto laws by clause 3 of Article I, Section 9 of the United States Constitution.
Too bad they couldn't have deported him pre facto him being involved in a robbery and murder. Ex post facto is second best.LTO wrote:I am generally not very sympathetic to those who fail to get citizenship, commit major crimes and then whine about deportation, but the ex post facto application of the law, if that is what has happened here, does seem on the surface to be a violation of a Constitutionally guaranteed right. How can that happen? Or did it happen? I think that, generally speaking, in criminal matters even foreign nationals are protected by the rights guaranteed in the Constitution, including protection against ex post facto laws. Is it perhaps that the regulation/law that allows for the deportation of foreign criminals is not a matter of criminal law but administrative regulation/procedure related to immigration, and thus, not necessarily covered by constitutional protections?logos wrote:The guy had served his 12 years sentence, had a family of his own and looked back on track when he was hit by a retroactive law. Are such laws legal at all in a democracy ?
I'm all for expulsing foreign criminals but this looks , well, unamerican.
-
- Similar Topics
- Replies
- Views
- Last post
-
-
Covid-19 positive Cambodian man released from San Quentin State Prison, not deported
by Bong Burgundy » Fri Jul 03, 2020 1:33 pm » in Cambodia News - 0 Replies
- 1515 Views
-
Last post by Bong Burgundy
Fri Jul 03, 2020 1:33 pm
-
-
- 5 Replies
- 2661 Views
-
Last post by spitthedog
Sat Nov 21, 2020 8:01 pm
-
-
American deported after identified as 'a risk to children'
by Bong Burgundy » Wed Feb 21, 2024 12:49 pm » in Cambodia News - 7 Replies
- 1018 Views
-
Last post by chkai chgout
Thu Feb 22, 2024 2:28 pm
-
-
-
Foreigners who violate the quarantine rules will be deported
by Bong Burgundy » Tue Feb 23, 2021 4:36 pm » in Cambodia News - 0 Replies
- 2128 Views
-
Last post by Bong Burgundy
Tue Feb 23, 2021 4:36 pm
-
-
-
Broke German woman strips during Balinese dance show to get deported
by Bong Burgundy » Sat May 27, 2023 6:22 pm » in 'Not' Cambodia - 3 Replies
- 993 Views
-
Last post by Londo
Fri Jun 02, 2023 4:06 pm
-