problem students
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- Impin' Aint Easy
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It sounds as though you teach teens and upwards. Remember this: Cultural differences can work in your favor.
One afternoon during exam revision time I was copping all sorts of shit from a few students who were constantly a problem. I'd been at the game long enough to know that yelling or showing signs of frustration would only worsen my woes so I tried this: Once I had finished revision I allowed all students who had done work to leave early, obviously leaving the dumb shits in the classroom. I told the students to stand whilst I sat silently and wrote out my next weeks lesson plan.
Student: "Teacher, can we go now?"
Me: "No"
Student: "But we're not doing anything"
Me: "So? You haven't done anything all lesson"
--Silence--
Me: "Do you respect your parents?" This question caught them somewhat off guard
Students: "YES teacher!"
Me: "If your parents gave you an iPhone would you throw it on the ground?"
Students: "NO teacher!!"
Me: "Well, your education is worth a lot more than an iPhone and that's what you're doing to it. YOU disrespect your parents, and I'll be sure to tell them that at PT interviews..."
They shut the fuck up, paid attention and hardly fucked around after that.
One afternoon during exam revision time I was copping all sorts of shit from a few students who were constantly a problem. I'd been at the game long enough to know that yelling or showing signs of frustration would only worsen my woes so I tried this: Once I had finished revision I allowed all students who had done work to leave early, obviously leaving the dumb shits in the classroom. I told the students to stand whilst I sat silently and wrote out my next weeks lesson plan.
Student: "Teacher, can we go now?"
Me: "No"
Student: "But we're not doing anything"
Me: "So? You haven't done anything all lesson"
--Silence--
Me: "Do you respect your parents?" This question caught them somewhat off guard
Students: "YES teacher!"
Me: "If your parents gave you an iPhone would you throw it on the ground?"
Students: "NO teacher!!"
Me: "Well, your education is worth a lot more than an iPhone and that's what you're doing to it. YOU disrespect your parents, and I'll be sure to tell them that at PT interviews..."
They shut the fuck up, paid attention and hardly fucked around after that.
I understand your frustration. Every single teacher, in every place, everywhere, at one time or another, goes through the same thing, to one extent or another. I have many friends who teach in the American public school system and they tell me some pretty harrowing stories. I have friends who teach in other countries like South Korea, Saudi Arabia, Taiwan, Morocco - ETC - and nobody gets a perfect classroom with perfect students. Nobody!
You are letting it get to you, big time. That may mean that you aren't cut out for teaching. I don't mean that as an insult; I'm not cut out to be an accountant because I can't do a lick of math and I'm not organized enough. It doesn't make me a bad person or useless. Maybe you just aren't naturally equipped or inclined to manage students in a classroom setting because you don't have thick enough skin or you don't intuitively take the right approach with them. I don't know. I offer it as a possibility based on your observations.
If you don't like teaching, start looking for other options. If you don't like Cambodia, start looking for other countries. It is a big world out there with lots of jobs and places to live. You already know that on some level, obviously, because you've left your home country to work here.
The reason I suggest making a drastic change, instead of trying to put a band-aid on things, is your statement that you don't respect the culture here and are looking forward to leaving forever. If that is the case, well, why wait? If you have some incredibly compelling reason to the contrary, please share it.
You are letting it get to you, big time. That may mean that you aren't cut out for teaching. I don't mean that as an insult; I'm not cut out to be an accountant because I can't do a lick of math and I'm not organized enough. It doesn't make me a bad person or useless. Maybe you just aren't naturally equipped or inclined to manage students in a classroom setting because you don't have thick enough skin or you don't intuitively take the right approach with them. I don't know. I offer it as a possibility based on your observations.
If you don't like teaching, start looking for other options. If you don't like Cambodia, start looking for other countries. It is a big world out there with lots of jobs and places to live. You already know that on some level, obviously, because you've left your home country to work here.
The reason I suggest making a drastic change, instead of trying to put a band-aid on things, is your statement that you don't respect the culture here and are looking forward to leaving forever. If that is the case, well, why wait? If you have some incredibly compelling reason to the contrary, please share it.
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Great post Ned
Have YOU started teaching yet? How have your first experiences been?
Have YOU started teaching yet? How have your first experiences been?
I came, I argued, I'm out
Thanks, Andy!andyinasia wrote:Great post Ned
Have YOU started teaching yet? How have your first experiences been?
I have indeed started teaching here. I had one week of classes leading up to New Year, and now I'm on a 10 day break. Rough life. I'm just doing one evening class so far, with only 5 students, aged 16-20. (They are supposed to up my hours once the new term starts).
Of my 5 students, two are genuinely well-behaved. One is impressive - he's probably only 16 or 17, but he could fit right into a University class in America given his English and his maturity level. The other well-behaved one is absolutely hideous with pronunciation because she is so shy, she barely speaks in any language. She was reluctant to tell me her name the first day.
The three "troublemakers" are all actually nice kids, they just don't care about the class or school much. They'd rather chat with each other or sing Khmer love songs at the top of their lungs ("TAKE ME TO YOUR HEART ..." is now stuck firmly in my head). So if I'm chatting with them before or after class and they are asking me about America or telling me things about Cambodia, they are very pleasant kids. They aren't that different from some of the horribly unmotivated American teens I've met.
The worst thing I've encountered so far was that one of them wouldn't put his phone away when I asked him to - several times - and then stood over him expectantly, trying to exude authority. That didn't seem to do much. I didn't get angry or yell. I wouldn't do that in a classroom at home (or any work environment to be honest), I can't see why I'd do it here. Finally, my ace student, described above, said something to him in Khmer and he stopped. I think he was embarrassed by his classmates behavior. The moral of the story for me I guess, is that if you can get at least some of the students on your side, they might help you out.
I'm used to teaching adults - and extremely motivated adults at that - immigrants who are voluntarily taking a 3 hour English course, 4 nights a week, just to better their lives in America. No degree or green card or whatever forthcoming.
So I've been pampered on the teaching front so far. But I've faced a lot tougher challenges in life than being ignored by a few vapid teenagers or having them poke fun at my weight. Hopefully I can win them over and help them improve their English. If I can't, well that's a failure on my part - and theirs as well - but I expect that I will manage to learn something in the process, even if they don't.
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- I Have Not Been Outside Today
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NedK wrote:Thanks, Andy!andyinasia wrote:Great post Ned
Have YOU started teaching yet? How have your first experiences been?
I have indeed started teaching here. I had one week of classes leading up to New Year, and now I'm on a 10 day break. Rough life. I'm just doing one evening class so far, with only 5 students, aged 16-20. (They are supposed to up my hours once the new term starts).
Of my 5 students, two are genuinely well-behaved. One is impressive - he's probably only 16 or 17, but he could fit right into a University class in America given his English and his maturity level. The other well-behaved one is absolutely hideous with pronunciation because she is so shy, she barely speaks in any language. She was reluctant to tell me her name the first day.
The three "troublemakers" are all actually nice kids, they just don't care about the class or school much. They'd rather chat with each other or sing Khmer love songs at the top of their lungs ("TAKE ME TO YOUR HEART ..." is now stuck firmly in my head). So if I'm chatting with them before or after class and they are asking me about America or telling me things about Cambodia, they are very pleasant kids. They aren't that different from some of the horribly unmotivated American teens I've met.
The worst thing I've encountered so far was that one of them wouldn't put his phone away when I asked him to - several times - and then stood over him expectantly, trying to exude authority. That didn't seem to do much. I didn't get angry or yell. I wouldn't do that in a classroom at home (or any work environment to be honest), I can't see why I'd do it here. Finally, my ace student, described above, said something to him in Khmer and he stopped. I think he was embarrassed by his classmates behavior. The moral of the story for me I guess, is that if you can get at least some of the students on your side, they might help you out.
I'm used to teaching adults - and extremely motivated adults at that - immigrants who are voluntarily taking a 3 hour English course, 4 nights a week, just to better their lives in America. No degree or green card or whatever forthcoming.
So I've been pampered on the teaching front so far. But I've faced a lot tougher challenges in life than being ignored by a few vapid teenagers or having them poke fun at my weight. Hopefully I can win them over and help them improve their English. If I can't, well that's a failure on my part - and theirs as well - but I expect that I will manage to learn something in the process, even if they don't.
Regarding the mobile phones, tell them they stay switched off unless they are expecting one of two people to call them: Michael Jackson or David Beckham. Always raises a smile and gives you something to fall back on if they do go to answer the phone/start texting!
Or, factor them in occasionally. Adapt a circular writing where each student adds a sentence to a piece of paper as it goes round the group. You could do this with a mobile phone with each student texting the next part of the story to the others. Get them to CC you in so you have a record (you may want to buy two sims to avoid early morning weekend calls!) and the type of writing you do can vary. Obviously, you can also do this via e-mail if you have the facilities.
Maybe set up a private Facebook page too. Lots of language and resources you can get from that, and it's something you could also use for homework (if you don't have the facilities at your school) with the chat option to multiple people. Mobiles are good props for role plays, and can provide decent material for stuff like questionnaires, comparatives/superlatives etc.
If you've been working with adults all your life, you'll soon see the value teens place in a teacher who prepares lessons tailored to what they're interested in, and the modern world.
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Ned, you may lack experience in teaching youths, but you clearly have the instincts to be a damn fine teacher, in sharp contrast to the OP.
With about 30 years' teaching experience behind me, I'll say this. Generally, you'll get maybe 5% of students who are superstars - superbly motivated and bright and bound to succeed in any context. You'll also get about 10% who are wasters - maybe extremely underprivileged at home or over-privileged spoilt brats. The thing is, this is not culture-bound - it's the same everywhere. You should try, but you don't need to feel a failure if you don't get through to the wasters. Conversely, it pisses me off when schools and universities boast about the achievement of the top 5% when they succeed largely despite, not because of the institution. Similarly, I can't respect those teachers who teach to the top 5% and ignore the rest and then think they achieved something.
The challenge, therefore, is how to get the best out of the 85% in the middle. The OP is writing them off; you are determined to optimise their potential - that's the difference between you. Here's something I've learned after 7 years teaching in Cambodia - the key factor as to how much the majority achieve in language-learning is not so much the teacher, as the management/system. Generally, a teacher sees a class for only one term at a time and there is a limited amount one individual can do in that time. Most of the schools are so focused on making money from the students that they don't care about standards, as a result, so long as the students (or their parents) pay the fees the management will do little to control discipline or push the students to work hard. In addition, the students will have grown up in a culture of anti-meritocracy in education - they will have routinely cheated and bought their way through the system (which is not the fault of the students or their parents). With a government refusing to invest in education and a private sector focused on short-term profit, there is a massive systemic failure in education in this country. Unless and until that is addressed, the vast majority of students will be cheated out of a decent education, to the long-term detriment of the country. Ultimately, the students are the victims; the teacher ought not despise or blame them.
With about 30 years' teaching experience behind me, I'll say this. Generally, you'll get maybe 5% of students who are superstars - superbly motivated and bright and bound to succeed in any context. You'll also get about 10% who are wasters - maybe extremely underprivileged at home or over-privileged spoilt brats. The thing is, this is not culture-bound - it's the same everywhere. You should try, but you don't need to feel a failure if you don't get through to the wasters. Conversely, it pisses me off when schools and universities boast about the achievement of the top 5% when they succeed largely despite, not because of the institution. Similarly, I can't respect those teachers who teach to the top 5% and ignore the rest and then think they achieved something.
The challenge, therefore, is how to get the best out of the 85% in the middle. The OP is writing them off; you are determined to optimise their potential - that's the difference between you. Here's something I've learned after 7 years teaching in Cambodia - the key factor as to how much the majority achieve in language-learning is not so much the teacher, as the management/system. Generally, a teacher sees a class for only one term at a time and there is a limited amount one individual can do in that time. Most of the schools are so focused on making money from the students that they don't care about standards, as a result, so long as the students (or their parents) pay the fees the management will do little to control discipline or push the students to work hard. In addition, the students will have grown up in a culture of anti-meritocracy in education - they will have routinely cheated and bought their way through the system (which is not the fault of the students or their parents). With a government refusing to invest in education and a private sector focused on short-term profit, there is a massive systemic failure in education in this country. Unless and until that is addressed, the vast majority of students will be cheated out of a decent education, to the long-term detriment of the country. Ultimately, the students are the victims; the teacher ought not despise or blame them.
I came, I argued, I'm out
you sound like a real asshole,and you are probabley not a real teacher,like most of the other working here in the school system for peanuts,you would be out of work in your own country,your problem students dont give a fuck,because their families will get them a position somewhere in the famile business,that requires nothing more,than lying,cheating,and stealing,the 3 pillars of cambodian culture.time for you to ignore these asshole students,teach them nothing and concentrate only on those that want to learn,fuck the rest of them.or better yet,go home mate,your done here
Thatyou'll soon see the value teens place in a teacher who prepares lessons tailored to what they're interested in, and the modern world.
Thatyou'll soon see the value teens place in a teacher who prepares lessons tailored to what they're interested in, and the modern world.
Thatyou'll soon see the value teens place in a teacher who prepares lessons tailored to what they're interested in, and the modern world.
Find an angle, ANY angle, that the students like or have an interest in that relates to what you're trying to get across... the less manufactured the better.
- Jacked Camry
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I fixed it for you.keith wrote:I sound like a real asshole...better yet, I should go home, I'm done here
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I reckon you and Diehard should meet up. You'd get along famously. Maybe Diehard could even give you some lessons in basic grammar and punctuation? Oh, to be a fly on the wall for that one....keith wrote:you sound like a real asshole,and you are probabley not a real teacher,like most of the other working here in the school system for peanuts,you would be out of work in your own country,your problem students dont give a fuck,because their families will get them a position somewhere in the famile business,that requires nothing more,than lying,cheating,and stealing,the 3 pillars of cambodian culture.time for you to ignore these asshole students,teach them nothing and concentrate only on those that want to learn,fuck the rest of them.or better yet,go home mate,your done here
Please, feel free to waste as much of your own time as you like. Just try not to waste ours next time. A lot of people tried to offer help and advice and you have apparently ignored it all. I think you are too anal to be a teacher. Your choice though: stress yourself into an early grave or alter your lifestyle.DieHard wrote:This was obviously a waste of time.
I spent almost 8 years teaching English in Phnom Penh and I can sympathize with the OP on this one – time to leave before you do something really stupid. Khmers have no respect for anyone other than someone in a higher position who can threaten them into doing something.
Khmer students are the dumbest, laziest, most disrespectful people you will ever meet. Sometimes you get lucky and have a class full of Chinese, Vietnamese, etc, which overrides the stupid Khmers. If you get a class full of pure Khmers … God help you. And it’s no good blaming the teacher – Cambodia’s recent past and modern Khmer culture of pure greed and selfishness makes them this way.
The reason I left was because I couldn’t see any improvement – in fact I saw the students becoming more arrogant and disrespectful towards foreigners. Time to leave.
Khmer students are the dumbest, laziest, most disrespectful people you will ever meet. Sometimes you get lucky and have a class full of Chinese, Vietnamese, etc, which overrides the stupid Khmers. If you get a class full of pure Khmers … God help you. And it’s no good blaming the teacher – Cambodia’s recent past and modern Khmer culture of pure greed and selfishness makes them this way.
The reason I left was because I couldn’t see any improvement – in fact I saw the students becoming more arrogant and disrespectful towards foreigners. Time to leave.
- kinglear#1
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1. Not true. Absolutely, not true. There are some extremely gifted, talented, hard-working and respectful Khmer students (as the OP himself acknowledged).spirit wrote:I spent almost 8 years teaching English in Phnom Penh and I can sympathize with the OP on this one – time to leave before you do something really stupid. Khmers have no respect for anyone other than someone in a higher position who can threaten them into doing something.
1. Khmer students are the dumbest, laziest, most disrespectful people you will ever meet. Sometimes you get lucky and have a class full of Chinese, Vietnamese, etc, which overrides the stupid Khmers. If you get a class full of pure Khmers 2. God help you. And it’s no good blaming the teacher – Cambodia’s recent past and modern Khmer culture of pure greed and selfishness makes them this way.
The reason I left was because I couldn’t see any improvement – in fact I saw the students becoming more arrogant and disrespectful towards foreigners. Time to leave.
2. Whilst there may be something in this, it's not really the students' fault, but the lack of discipline and leadership in the society that they're brought up in that's to blame. A good school can help to deal with this. If the school panders to the richer, more powerful parents and refuses to discipline students, then of course they will grow up believing they have the right to do what they want. This applies in just about any country.
Most of the schools here have a lot to answer for - they are wasting the future human resources of this country purely to keep lining the pockets of their greedy owners. Someone should point out that you can still make plenty of money without sacrificing standards and principles.
I feel a bit sorry for some of the people who get drawn into teaching here totally unprepared. There again, it's the schools that are to blame for not having a clue about how to help new teachers to acclimatise.
O, let me not be mad, not mad, sweet heaven
I swear to almighty dog (that's god spelled backwards for the retards on here, [I'm an anti-theist--thanks C. Hitchens]) that I am not "spirit". But hey, thanks dude. Surprised you lasted 8 years. What's your secret? Heavy self-medication with Johnnie or Jose? And yes, for the record, I do have a few non-Khmer students. Honestly I cannot compare them to my Khmer students. Too many variables and I don't want to get into it...
Truth. Beauty. Justice.
You've left the country after eight years, and THEN you decide to become a member here to bash the Khmer students that you had apparently failed to teach?spirit wrote:The reason I left was because I couldn’t see any improvement – in fact I saw the students becoming more arrogant and disrespectful towards foreigners. Time to leave.
One would assume it might have been (more) helpful for you to use this forum before you've left.
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