The friendly but not careful Covid-Positive Hungarian visited some schools. Common sense to quarantine those he met, or if they don't know which students, teachers and administrators he met, then pause and quarantine those particular schools. What is the rationale for closing all schools in the city?
Unless, they have reason to suspect that Covid was wide spread in Phnom Penh schools prior to the Hungarian's visit? Or...(suggestions)?
Why were ALL Phnom Penh schools closed?
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- Felicity Kendal Mint-Cake
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Isn't it obvious? Damage limitation, contain the spread before it starts, avoid exponential growth. Almost 900 people have been tested; how many families is that, with how many kids at how many schools? Diplomats not being tested aside, it's a quick response and maybe something that countries in Europe should have done months ago.
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The other difference is when any western government does do lockdowns they’re attacked from all sides - media, unions, doctors - and a small minority ignoring rules, which is why their countries are fucked and some Asian countries are not.
pew, pew, pew, pew!
What are your thoughts about contact tracing in Cambodia?
On the one hand, public health in Cambodia is bad. Bad, I think, partly because it is so widely privatized that doctors and nurses give 97% of their time, energy, and attention to their own private clinics (Which, honestly, can be pretty good at common medical problems.)
On the other hand, since UNTAC there has been a heap of development assistance put towards Health, overwhelmingly towards public health. Also, given all the infectious disease public health scares since UNTAC, HIV right up to COVID, I would expect that many Cambodians doing contact tracing have greater skills and experience than many now doing the same job in the west.
Anyone have thoughts on this?
You both suggest the government deserves praise for its quick shutdown of schools and entertainment venues due to the Hungarian's visit. I can understand that. MUCH easier to catch a 'surge' as it starts rather than tame it once it has gone wild. Much of the world has failed miserably at using testing and tracing to put out small outbreaks, while keeping schools and businesses open.
Cambodian testing has been minimal, but they sure jumped admirably fast here. IF that testing capacity is now sustainable, should Cambodia, carefully, trust its contact tracers a little more?
On the one hand, public health in Cambodia is bad. Bad, I think, partly because it is so widely privatized that doctors and nurses give 97% of their time, energy, and attention to their own private clinics (Which, honestly, can be pretty good at common medical problems.)
On the other hand, since UNTAC there has been a heap of development assistance put towards Health, overwhelmingly towards public health. Also, given all the infectious disease public health scares since UNTAC, HIV right up to COVID, I would expect that many Cambodians doing contact tracing have greater skills and experience than many now doing the same job in the west.
Anyone have thoughts on this?
You both suggest the government deserves praise for its quick shutdown of schools and entertainment venues due to the Hungarian's visit. I can understand that. MUCH easier to catch a 'surge' as it starts rather than tame it once it has gone wild. Much of the world has failed miserably at using testing and tracing to put out small outbreaks, while keeping schools and businesses open.
Cambodian testing has been minimal, but they sure jumped admirably fast here. IF that testing capacity is now sustainable, should Cambodia, carefully, trust its contact tracers a little more?
Contact tracing can be effective in a community that practices social distancing with self quarantine or lockdowns. In communities that don’t I think Corona spreads faster than contacts can be traced.
Now they’ve put 900 people in quarantine but put that in a Cambodian perspective. Hundreds of people who are relatives and friends staying at the same hotel. They will socialize, and effectively it becomes the scenario people feared with MS Westerdam except this time it’s on land.
The risk of Covid-19 transmission in quarantine is higher than it would be if people quarantined at home, only the latter is not practical because people being people they will find ways to come and go.
Hundreds of mings who are related and friends mingling in the same hotel. It only takes one stray who goes out “just to” buy some phone credit, or some dry fish or dry mango with chili powder and the result could be a national tragedy.
I have a bad feeling about all this. The interaction with the sick Hun was a big mistake.
Now they’ve put 900 people in quarantine but put that in a Cambodian perspective. Hundreds of people who are relatives and friends staying at the same hotel. They will socialize, and effectively it becomes the scenario people feared with MS Westerdam except this time it’s on land.
The risk of Covid-19 transmission in quarantine is higher than it would be if people quarantined at home, only the latter is not practical because people being people they will find ways to come and go.
Hundreds of mings who are related and friends mingling in the same hotel. It only takes one stray who goes out “just to” buy some phone credit, or some dry fish or dry mango with chili powder and the result could be a national tragedy.
I have a bad feeling about all this. The interaction with the sick Hun was a big mistake.
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- springrain
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I was asked (told) to fill in a form a few days ago, the questions on which bordered on the absurd.
It was a form which had to be submitted prior to any inspection carried out by the MOEYS (or it might have been the MoH - they didn’t make it clear.)
It asked us to provide details of any restaurants/clubs/pubs etc visited throughout August - October*, who else was in the room/facility, their names, addresses, phone numbers, how long we stayed there and so on.
(*Note that it didn’t include November!)
I filled it in as dutifully as I could, but there were inevitable gaps where it simply wasn’t possible to recall exact details - flip, was I supposed to go round, demanding to know personal details of other patrons? A la: ‘Vhere are your papers?’
It seems to me that the ‘Track & Trace’ demands in the Kingdom are amateurish attempts (at best) to look as though something is seeming to be done, rather than anything effective actually being done.
I recall returning on the Capitol six-dollar bus from HCMC once and being ‘given’ a SARS Test, which involved answering the question: ‘Have you ever had SARS’? That was it!
‘Track & Trace’ might have proven effective if it had been administered effectively - in the UK, for example, it clearly was a failure - S Korea & Germany, otherwise, but I feel that the Kingdom’s attempts have again fallen far short of what they purport to do.
(Due to the owner’s refusal to pay Tea Money, our ‘inspection’ has been delayed until tomorrow. I expect it to be shambolic. I will update tomorrow evening, if you wish.)
It was a form which had to be submitted prior to any inspection carried out by the MOEYS (or it might have been the MoH - they didn’t make it clear.)
It asked us to provide details of any restaurants/clubs/pubs etc visited throughout August - October*, who else was in the room/facility, their names, addresses, phone numbers, how long we stayed there and so on.
(*Note that it didn’t include November!)
I filled it in as dutifully as I could, but there were inevitable gaps where it simply wasn’t possible to recall exact details - flip, was I supposed to go round, demanding to know personal details of other patrons? A la: ‘Vhere are your papers?’
It seems to me that the ‘Track & Trace’ demands in the Kingdom are amateurish attempts (at best) to look as though something is seeming to be done, rather than anything effective actually being done.
I recall returning on the Capitol six-dollar bus from HCMC once and being ‘given’ a SARS Test, which involved answering the question: ‘Have you ever had SARS’? That was it!
‘Track & Trace’ might have proven effective if it had been administered effectively - in the UK, for example, it clearly was a failure - S Korea & Germany, otherwise, but I feel that the Kingdom’s attempts have again fallen far short of what they purport to do.
(Due to the owner’s refusal to pay Tea Money, our ‘inspection’ has been delayed until tomorrow. I expect it to be shambolic. I will update tomorrow evening, if you wish.)
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'History is a set of lies agreed upon.'
Attributed to Napoleon
Attributed to Napoleon
'It asked us to provide details of any restaurants/clubs/pubs etc visited throughout August - October*, who else was in the room/facility, their names, addresses, phone numbers, how long we stayed there and so on.
(*Note that it didn’t include November!)'
November included the Hungarian FM's visit, maybe that's why
(*Note that it didn’t include November!)'
November included the Hungarian FM's visit, maybe that's why
So, zero faith in Contact tracing, and quarantine/self isolation. I guess it was wishful thinking on my part.
I don't see Sweden as any kind of great response for themselves, or in any way an ideal model for others, but one thing they didn't do, and that didn't seem to hurt them, was close primary schools. Every parent and teacher knows that schools are efficient vectors for flu, colds, pink-eye, etc, etc, BUT, with with small children and the common sense precautions Cambodian MoYES have requested schools follow, they don't seem to be effective spreaders of Covid-19.
I'm not saying primary schools are 100% safe, but responsible admin and responsible teachers can ensure the risk is much, much lower than 12 twenty-year olds hitting a karaoke.
The question is, can school admin and the teachers they hire BE responsible? Hopefully watching how easily the govt closed PP schools, will, countrywide, give all teachers and admin a shake. In a well run primary school, a child that got covid at home isn't likely to spread it at school, even if her parents fail to keep her at home.
Entry to the country is the best place to stop it. Let Cambodians on Khmer Passports return, but make them test BEFORE getting on a plane, this is the loophole that most urgently needs to be closed.
I don't see Sweden as any kind of great response for themselves, or in any way an ideal model for others, but one thing they didn't do, and that didn't seem to hurt them, was close primary schools. Every parent and teacher knows that schools are efficient vectors for flu, colds, pink-eye, etc, etc, BUT, with with small children and the common sense precautions Cambodian MoYES have requested schools follow, they don't seem to be effective spreaders of Covid-19.
I'm not saying primary schools are 100% safe, but responsible admin and responsible teachers can ensure the risk is much, much lower than 12 twenty-year olds hitting a karaoke.
The question is, can school admin and the teachers they hire BE responsible? Hopefully watching how easily the govt closed PP schools, will, countrywide, give all teachers and admin a shake. In a well run primary school, a child that got covid at home isn't likely to spread it at school, even if her parents fail to keep her at home.
Entry to the country is the best place to stop it. Let Cambodians on Khmer Passports return, but make them test BEFORE getting on a plane, this is the loophole that most urgently needs to be closed.
- springrain
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Ha ha! I had goulash the other day, too. Washed down with a glass of Bull's Blood!wobbler wrote: ↑Tue Nov 10, 2020 11:09 pm'It asked us to provide details of any restaurants/clubs/pubs etc visited throughout August - October*, who else was in the room/facility, their names, addresses, phone numbers, how long we stayed there and so on. (*Note that it didn’t include November!)'
November included the Hungarian FM's visit, maybe that's why
'History is a set of lies agreed upon.'
Attributed to Napoleon
Attributed to Napoleon
- springrain
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Well, maybe I was a bit harsh in saying the inspection would be a shambles.
Two fellas, very civil and appeared to be very thorough & professional.
Checked all the classrooms and other facilities, ensuring there were sanitizing stations and hand wash basins at regular intervals. They stayed about an hour and a half in all. What was discussed in the office, I don't know, but they did seem genuinely willing to do a good inspection.
Two fellas, very civil and appeared to be very thorough & professional.
Checked all the classrooms and other facilities, ensuring there were sanitizing stations and hand wash basins at regular intervals. They stayed about an hour and a half in all. What was discussed in the office, I don't know, but they did seem genuinely willing to do a good inspection.
'History is a set of lies agreed upon.'
Attributed to Napoleon
Attributed to Napoleon
So were any of the supposed to be quarantained bongs at the recent Independence Day celebration mingling with students?
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