@thelost, by "proper," I meant as it is written.
I had difficulties to pronounce words as in "street language".
For instance, the Khmer word for "spoon" is "slap prear" but to my ear it is pronounced "s'phear". When I tried to ask for a spoon, saying "s'phear," nobody understood what i was saying. Only when I was pronouncing it as written "slap prear" did Cambodians understand me. Maybe it was because of my accent. So I got into the habit of saying words as they are written and while it sounds a bit posh, at least Cambodians understand me.
P.S.: I respectfully request His Lordship to bugger off.
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You speak Khmer with a funny accent Frenchie, it hurts my delicate ears and I can barely understand what you are saying most of the time.Joon wrote:@thelost, by "proper," I meant as it is written.
I had difficulties to pronounce words as in "street language".
For instance, the Khmer word for "spoon" is "slap prear" but to my ear it is pronounced "s'phear". When I tried to ask for a spoon, saying "s'phear," nobody understood what i was saying. Only when I was pronouncing it as written "slap prear" did Cambodians understand me. Maybe it was because of my accent. So I got into the habit of saying words as they are written and while it sounds a bit posh, at least Cambodians understand me.
P.S.: I respectfully request His Lordship to bugger off.
Still, it is not as bad (harsh) as when I hear our Australian friends mangling the language - usually at volume.
"We, the sons of John Company, have arrived"
That's the inherit problem. There's no real "standard" or "proper" way to speak it, if you do not count the media/broadcasting stuff in.Playboy wrote:I disagree with anyone learning Peasant Farmer Khmer, or Bargirl Khmer, or Ghetto Rat Khmer et cetera.
The Khmers themselves should bloody well learn to speak a proper language
The media/broadcasting is clear but they do not really count for everyday speaking in Cambodia which is pervasive and accounts for 95% of the daily communication.
To compound this problem, there's accents all over the country, such as Siem Reap, Battambang, all the way to Rattanakiri, Svay Rieng, and back to Phnom Penh.
So in short, the Khmers don't have a strict system in place.
Let me put it this way, comparing the "written" and "street" which in my opinion is not really street, more like normal talk.Joon wrote:@thelost, by "proper," I meant as it is written.
I had difficulties to pronounce words as in "street language".
For instance, the Khmer word for "spoon" is "slap prear" but to my ear it is pronounced "s'phear". When I tried to ask for a spoon, saying "s'phear," nobody understood what i was saying. Only when I was pronouncing it as written "slap prear" did Cambodians understand me. Maybe it was because of my accent. So I got into the habit of saying words as they are written and while it sounds a bit posh, at least Cambodians understand me.
P.S.: I respectfully request His Lordship to bugger off.
Written - How are you? What are you going to do today?
Normal talk / "street" - Hey. What are you gonna do now?
Written - Thank you very much, I am very fine. I am going to the shopping center to buy some grocery for dinner tonight. I hope you do have a pleasant day too. I hope to see you again next time.
Normal talk - Thanks mate, I'm good yeah. I'm gonna go shopping, buy some grocery for dinner. You? Yeah, you have a good day today. See you around.
That's what I'm trying to say for "written" khmer which sounds "unnatural" and "daily" khmer which is like this.
I guess you're French? In that case, sorry but French accent can be a bit...difficult to understand because, in my humble worthless opinion, the French accent tend to "swallow" up words and is a bit light/weak.
Yes, the spoon is pronounced as "Sapheah". I talk like that sometimes, and they still understand me no problem.
English - Textbook - Spoken
Love - Srolanh - Salanh
Where are you going? - Daer nek tov ae na? - Tov ee na? / Tov na?
What are you doing? - Daer nek tver avey? - Ter ey? / Ter sa-ey?
I am Australian. So...what's with the "mangling"?Playboy wrote:You speak Khmer with a funny accent Frenchie, it hurts my delicate ears and I can barely understand what you are saying most of the time.Joon wrote:@thelost, by "proper," I meant as it is written.
I had difficulties to pronounce words as in "street language".
For instance, the Khmer word for "spoon" is "slap prear" but to my ear it is pronounced "s'phear". When I tried to ask for a spoon, saying "s'phear," nobody understood what i was saying. Only when I was pronouncing it as written "slap prear" did Cambodians understand me. Maybe it was because of my accent. So I got into the habit of saying words as they are written and while it sounds a bit posh, at least Cambodians understand me.
P.S.: I respectfully request His Lordship to bugger off.
Still, it is not as bad (harsh) as when I hear our Australian friends mangling the language - usually at volume.
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Joon kind of illustrates my point and why listening to Khmer has been so uphill for me. ស្លាបព្រា turns into សុភា (Sophia) in the common parlance which is a common name. If you say that you want Sophia (ខ្ញុំចង់បានសុភា) it's an entirely different thought.
It could also become សុភាព which is like polite.
It could also turn into ស្លបៀ which is nonsense (beer soup), but which to my untrained ear that doesn't know much about Khmer foods could be a sort of soup.
It is all very hard unless you learn, I think, to derive a lot of meaning from context. Kind of like how we know what too and two is in English.
It could also become សុភាព which is like polite.
It could also turn into ស្លបៀ which is nonsense (beer soup), but which to my untrained ear that doesn't know much about Khmer foods could be a sort of soup.
It is all very hard unless you learn, I think, to derive a lot of meaning from context. Kind of like how we know what too and two is in English.
That's the problem and that's why I have a big deal with these textbooks, which I have studied some myself in the early years.merchantsmutual wrote:Joon kind of illustrates my point and why listening to Khmer has been so uphill for me. ស្លាបព្រា turns into សុភា (Sophia) in the common parlance which is a common name. If you say that you want Sophia (ខ្ញុំចង់បានសុភា) it's an entirely different thought.
It could also become សុភាព which is like polite.
It could also turn into ស្លបៀ which is nonsense (beer soup), but which to my untrained ear that doesn't know much about Khmer foods could be a sort of soup.
It is all very hard unless you learn, I think, to derive a lot of meaning from context. Kind of like how we know what too and two is in English.
They are not helping you to "understand" the Khmer when they talk, they are only helping you to be "understood". But in my opinion, communication goes both ways, not one way. So essentially, a person who studied the textbooks thoroughly and through, will proudly mutter a sentence perfectly, only to become perplexed and lost when the response comes out, all "unclear" and "quick" out of a Khmer's mouth. Textbooks are flawed.
Anyway that spoon, sounds like សៈភ្លា or សៈភា to my ears. Doesn't sound like សុភា to me.
Why can't Khmer be a bit more like...I don't know, easy to listen to? Lol.
It's mind-boggling how you make it a Khmer language issue while it's a foreign language issue. There's the same problems with French, English, and very most likely Japanese, Chinese, Spanish, etc.
"Je suis" in French becomes "Ch'uis" when spoken colloquially, but it's not proper written French, it's casual verbal French.
Just like "you all" in English becomes "y'all" or "Good day, mate" becomes "G'day, mate."
"Je suis" in French becomes "Ch'uis" when spoken colloquially, but it's not proper written French, it's casual verbal French.
Just like "you all" in English becomes "y'all" or "Good day, mate" becomes "G'day, mate."
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I agree. There's no really easy way around it -- you have to really do your homework. I have been studying for over a year, at least 3 hours a week with a private tutor, and still easily get lost.Joon wrote:It's mind-boggling how you make it a Khmer language issue while it's a foreign language issue. There's the same problems with French, English, and very most likely Japanese, Chinese, Spanish, etc.
"Je suis" in French becomes "Ch'uis" when spoken colloquially, but it's not proper written French, it's casual verbal French.
Just like "you all" in English becomes "y'all" or "Good day, mate" becomes "G'day, mate."
Learning another language well really is up there in the pantheon of big accomplishments, especially when that language consists of sounds that are very foreign to your ear (e.g., not a Spaniard picking up Italian). I would put it somewhere between climbing in the high altitudes or getting a successful business off the ground.
Also, for what it's worth, I took lots of Spanish in a classroom setting and spent a lot of time with it and they are far more easier to understand, even when they butcher it. The reason, imo, is that the sounds are Spanish (particularly the consonants) are very distinct to an English-speaking ear. I can hear the word siempre even if a lawnmower is nearby. I can't say the same for តោះ and ទៅ
Last edited by merchantsmutual on Wed Feb 08, 2017 11:47 am, edited 1 time in total.
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As in every language, some Cambodians are far more clearer than others, especially if they are educated. They will also recognize that you are a foreigner and naturally slow it down a bit and try to pronounce well. It happens even subconsciously. I dated a Korean girl for a few years and all of our conversations were elementary English, even if I didn't intend it.thelost wrote:That's the problem and that's why I have a big deal with these textbooks, which I have studied some myself in the early years.merchantsmutual wrote:Joon kind of illustrates my point and why listening to Khmer has been so uphill for me. ស្លាបព្រា turns into សុភា (Sophia) in the common parlance which is a common name. If you say that you want Sophia (ខ្ញុំចង់បានសុភា) it's an entirely different thought.
It could also become សុភាព which is like polite.
It could also turn into ស្លបៀ which is nonsense (beer soup), but which to my untrained ear that doesn't know much about Khmer foods could be a sort of soup.
It is all very hard unless you learn, I think, to derive a lot of meaning from context. Kind of like how we know what too and two is in English.
They are not helping you to "understand" the Khmer when they talk, they are only helping you to be "understood". But in my opinion, communication goes both ways, not one way. So essentially, a person who studied the textbooks thoroughly and through, will proudly mutter a sentence perfectly, only to become perplexed and lost when the response comes out, all "unclear" and "quick" out of a Khmer's mouth. Textbooks are flawed.
Anyway that spoon, sounds like សៈភ្លា or សៈភា to my ears. Doesn't sound like សុភា to me.
Why can't Khmer be a bit more like...I don't know, easy to listen to? Lol.
Point taken Joon, however, I still believe that the textbook must change their teaching approach and include the common speech as well as written speech.
@merchantsmutual , I hope you will be able to reach fluency level soon. Good luck with your work. Try listening to this.
Lots of work to be done.
@merchantsmutual , I hope you will be able to reach fluency level soon. Good luck with your work. Try listening to this.
Lots of work to be done.
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