Consistently Mispronounced Words
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There is a constellation of words that kind of get mashed up together. ត្រូវ becomes តូវ, ធ្វើ becomes ធើ, and both can become easy to confuse with ទៅ. I often find myself getting lost over these three, as ubiquitous as they are in Khmer speech.
ទឹកកក់ really almost always becomes ទឹកក៏. Like the water of the neck.
Does anyone else also hear បើសិនជា said with almost a v sound? I swear sometimes it sounds like វើ
ទឹកកក់ really almost always becomes ទឹកក៏. Like the water of the neck.
Does anyone else also hear បើសិនជា said with almost a v sound? I swear sometimes it sounds like វើ
Most of what's been mentioned here are features of Phnom Penh dialect, features shared by several other eastern Khmer dialects:
-dropping of រ in consonant clusters (គ្រូ becoming "khuu," etc.)
-changing of standard first series vowels to second (including a vowel/consonant combination which doesn't exist at all in standard Khmer, the combination of "ea" with "m"--pram ប្រាំ changing to "peam," ក្រៅ becoming "keaw," or ប្រាប់ becoming "peap," etc.--in most dialects of Khmer, the "ea" vowel can only occur before the consonants ក or ង, or preceding aspiration (examples: នាក់ ទាំង ផ្ទះ)
-reduction of ប្រាំ to just "m" (m-បី = ប្រាំបី etc.
-pronunciation of ខ្ញុំ as ញ៉ុំ (this is also a feature of native Tiechiew Chinese speakers of Khmer, which makes me think it became a part of PP dialect due to the large number of Tiechiew speakers there)
It's understandable that people exposed mostly to Phnom Penh Khmer dialect on an everyday basis would interpret these features as a general kind of "Khmer slang," but really they belong to a specific dialect or dialects (granted, due to television and other media, that dialect is now known across the country).
However, other things discussed in this thread are standard features of spoken, colloquial Khmer (as opposed to formal Khmer), such as saying ធើ instead of ធ្វើ (be careful with this one, because it sounds particularly "rough" and can in some contexts be considered outright vulgar). Another one is ដណ្ដប់ for the numbers 11-19, which is simply an alternate pronunciation of those numbers present in every Khmer dialect, including the most far-flung dialect, Surin (Northern) Khmer (in fact, that's the only way they know how to express the numbers 11-19; if you said ដប់បី in Surin, they wouldn't know what you were talking about unless they had previous exposure to Central Khmer).
បើ (if) pronounced as if it were second series (ប៊ើ) is also common across several dialects, as is មក pronounced as ម៉ោ, យក pronounced as យ, etc.
-dropping of រ in consonant clusters (គ្រូ becoming "khuu," etc.)
-changing of standard first series vowels to second (including a vowel/consonant combination which doesn't exist at all in standard Khmer, the combination of "ea" with "m"--pram ប្រាំ changing to "peam," ក្រៅ becoming "keaw," or ប្រាប់ becoming "peap," etc.--in most dialects of Khmer, the "ea" vowel can only occur before the consonants ក or ង, or preceding aspiration (examples: នាក់ ទាំង ផ្ទះ)
-reduction of ប្រាំ to just "m" (m-បី = ប្រាំបី etc.
-pronunciation of ខ្ញុំ as ញ៉ុំ (this is also a feature of native Tiechiew Chinese speakers of Khmer, which makes me think it became a part of PP dialect due to the large number of Tiechiew speakers there)
It's understandable that people exposed mostly to Phnom Penh Khmer dialect on an everyday basis would interpret these features as a general kind of "Khmer slang," but really they belong to a specific dialect or dialects (granted, due to television and other media, that dialect is now known across the country).
However, other things discussed in this thread are standard features of spoken, colloquial Khmer (as opposed to formal Khmer), such as saying ធើ instead of ធ្វើ (be careful with this one, because it sounds particularly "rough" and can in some contexts be considered outright vulgar). Another one is ដណ្ដប់ for the numbers 11-19, which is simply an alternate pronunciation of those numbers present in every Khmer dialect, including the most far-flung dialect, Surin (Northern) Khmer (in fact, that's the only way they know how to express the numbers 11-19; if you said ដប់បី in Surin, they wouldn't know what you were talking about unless they had previous exposure to Central Khmer).
បើ (if) pronounced as if it were second series (ប៊ើ) is also common across several dialects, as is មក pronounced as ម៉ោ, យក pronounced as យ, etc.
This is actually not a pronunciation or dialect issue at all, but a regular feature of how various vowels are represented in the writing system...it's just a set of rules, with a couple very predictable exceptions, that can be learned fairly easily. I explain it in detail (with lots of audio examples) in my textbooks:Jamie_Lambo wrote:the word for chicken always surprised me
its spelt មាន់ which is pretty much identical to មាន (to have)
but "to have" is pronounced Mean, and "chicken" is pronounced more like Moan
http://www.studykhmer.com/textbooks
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tbh ive not really noticed it spoken as spelt the first way (Ter), even if the 2nd consonant is very lightly pronounced i can still make it out (Tver) but i dont live in PPpreahkaew wrote: However, other things discussed in this thread are standard features of spoken, colloquial Khmer (as opposed to formal Khmer), such as saying ធើ instead of ធ្វើ (be careful with this one, because it sounds particularly "rough" and can in some contexts be considered outright vulgar).
Mean Dtuk Mean Trey, Mean Loy Mean Srey
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just out of interest, are these questions based on the 2 weeks you spent in cambodia? when you say almost always?merchantsmutual wrote:There is a constellation of words that kind of get mashed up together. ត្រូវ becomes តូវ, ធ្វើ becomes ធើ, and both can become easy to confuse with ទៅ. I often find myself getting lost over these three, as ubiquitous as they are in Khmer speech.
ទឹកកក់ really almost always becomes ទឹកក៏. Like the water of the neck.
Does anyone else also hear បើសិនជា said with almost a v sound? I swear sometimes it sounds like វើ
i can understand how you could maybe hear a similarity between តូវ and ទៅ but i most sure how ធើ sounds confusing with the other 2?
Mean Dtuk Mean Trey, Mean Loy Mean Srey
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No the overwhelming majority of my study time has been devoted to listening comprehension. I spend 3 hours a week in class listening to videos with my teacher and transcribing, in addition to countless hours outside of it going over youtube videos.Jamie_Lambo wrote:just out of interest, are these questions based on the 2 weeks you spent in cambodia? when you say almost always?merchantsmutual wrote:There is a constellation of words that kind of get mashed up together. ត្រូវ becomes តូវ, ធ្វើ becomes ធើ, and both can become easy to confuse with ទៅ. I often find myself getting lost over these three, as ubiquitous as they are in Khmer speech.
ទឹកកក់ really almost always becomes ទឹកក៏. Like the water of the neck.
Does anyone else also hear បើសិនជា said with almost a v sound? I swear sometimes it sounds like វើ
i can understand how you could maybe hear a similarity between តូវ and ទៅ but i most sure how ធើ sounds confusing with the other 2?
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what kind of videos are you watching out of interest? got any sample vids/links?merchantsmutual wrote:No the overwhelming majority of my study time has been devoted to listening comprehension. I spend 3 hours a week in class listening to videos with my teacher and transcribing, in addition to countless hours outside of it going over youtube videos.Jamie_Lambo wrote:just out of interest, are these questions based on the 2 weeks you spent in cambodia? when you say almost always?merchantsmutual wrote:There is a constellation of words that kind of get mashed up together. ត្រូវ becomes តូវ, ធ្វើ becomes ធើ, and both can become easy to confuse with ទៅ. I often find myself getting lost over these three, as ubiquitous as they are in Khmer speech.
ទឹកកក់ really almost always becomes ទឹកក៏. Like the water of the neck.
Does anyone else also hear បើសិនជា said with almost a v sound? I swear sometimes it sounds like វើ
i can understand how you could maybe hear a similarity between តូវ and ទៅ but i most sure how ធើ sounds confusing with the other 2?
Mean Dtuk Mean Trey, Mean Loy Mean Srey
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since this topic ive been specifically keeping an ear out for the thing i mentioned a page or 2 back about them dropping the bpram,Jamie_Lambo wrote:yeah,ផោមក្លិនស្អុយ wrote:
No one has mentioned the number thing from 11-19 where they say the units first then 'dun' then ten
So instead of dap muoy (11) the say muoy dun-dap, or bram boan dun dap for 19.
I haven't heard the number thing Jamie mentions but can hear sometimes instead of bram they say 'mm'.
E.g. Mm'bul, mm'bey etc.
Probably is more prevalent in certain regions
If you aren't familiar with it you can get easily confused with numbers.
and agree, before it got pointed out to me i never really noticed it, and is still hard to tell sometimes
my friend first told me when i was at school and he knew i was studying khmer,
but used to giggle when i used to speak too formally in informal situations and would help me speak more "common"
he worked in a guesthouse bar i used to drink in last year, and one day told me my $18 bill was dop bey riel, i obviously looked confused to which he then explained it to me,
the only times i ever really encounter it is when im in informal situations with groups of Khmer, maybe drinking round a friends house or something,
i dont think its that common though, not used to barangs anyway, 'mm' i think would be more common
and on maybe 4-5 occasions ive come across it again, recently a couple of nights ago when playing khmer cards with some khmer friends and even last night too
i can say for certain its not me miss hearing it as ive been paying attention trying to spot someone saying it that way
Mean Dtuk Mean Trey, Mean Loy Mean Srey
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ទ្រូង is almost always ទូង
ជ្រូក is almost always ជូក with a very heavy emphasis on the OOO in ជូ
ជ្រូក is almost always ជូក with a very heavy emphasis on the OOO in ជូ
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For foreigners.
4 and 1000. But they often are speaking so slowly it is really obvious.
Speed it up guys and no one will notice.
4 and 1000. But they often are speaking so slowly it is really obvious.
Speed it up guys and no one will notice.
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hahaផោមក្លិនស្អុយ wrote:For foreigners.
4 and 1000. But they often are speaking so slowly it is really obvious.
Speed it up guys and no one will notice.
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Khmer has a lot of homonyms, actually. Tell me with a straight face that you can tell a difference between:ផោមក្លិនស្អុយ wrote:For foreigners.
4 and 1000. But they often are speaking so slowly it is really obvious.
Speed it up guys and no one will notice.
បង់ បង
ឯង អញ់
បឹង ពឹង
។ល។
It is a very contextual language.
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I mean contextual in that the average Khmer speaker is not pronouncing clearly but the other Khmer understand it because of the context.Playboy wrote:Contextual?
Only 15M speakers, it is already a dead language, it is just twitching a little before it shuffles off and everyone here starts speaking Chinese
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If you are walking down the street and someone says ទៅណាហ្នឹង they may say it more like more tunanua but you understand what they mean. Kind of like how if I ask "what's up with you" and it sounds like wazuwyew you don't look around to see if there are yew trees. This is why it takes so many years to build up a good ear in Khmer.
The Khmer love English too much to allow any other language to dominate. Read Khmerload and then check out the comments under any article. Even poor speakers will add something like "sart idol my faorite".