There's no "in the meantime." In case you didn't notice, the Chinese have dominated business here, and elsewhere in SE Asia, for about 500 years.PhotoKhmer wrote:
in the meantime smarter people like chinese, koreans, and vietnamese are taking over every business in town, and rightfully so.
Expatriates’ Strange Lives in Cambodia
- Lucky Lucan
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Romantic Cambodia is dead and gone. It's with McKinley in the grave.
- Phuket2006
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Since when were they ever able to connect with the rest of the world? Very few have ever traveled abroad except out of necessity. They've always been quite an insular, inward looking people. Most don't read and have little interest in learning anything outside of what is needed.Lucky Lucan wrote:happy_buddha wrote: I think these Khmer have suffered SO MUCH...they can no longer connect with most of the world. Even us hardened Westerners STILL look like spoiled foreigners to them.
Sounds like your describing Americans,
"We are turning into a nation of whimpering slaves to Fear—fear of war, fear of poverty, fear of random terrorism, or suddenly getting locked up in a military detention camp on vague charges of being a Terrorist sympathizer." HST
- khmerhit
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yeah, sounds like the Uk home counties--sussex, surey etc.
or ireland in the fifties.
or south korea--
or north korea
or...tasmania!!
---what is this thread about agin??
or ireland in the fifties.
or south korea--
or north korea
or...tasmania!!
---what is this thread about agin??
Joined: '03; Member 39. Funny Quote: Prince Phillip to a driving Instructor in Scotland: "How do you keep the natives off the booze long enough to get them to pass the test?"
- Lucky Lucan
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I think you'll find that people in Ireland read long before the 1950s, and had traveled all over the world centuries before that. Here's an article about Irish engineers, doctors and journalists in South America in the 18th and 19th centuries:khmerhit wrote:yeah, sounds like the Uk home counties--sussex, surey etc.
or ireland in the fifties.
or south korea--
or north korea
or...tasmania!!
---what is this thread about agin??
http://www.irishtimes.com/ancestor/maga ... _stham.htm
Romantic Cambodia is dead and gone. It's with McKinley in the grave.
- khmerhit
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Ireland was not an outward-looking place for the most part until the frigging 1990s when the govt forced the church to loosen its grip on society. Agriculture, not literature, was peoples chief concern and I suspect that holds true today as well. the big trip abroad is to the Grand National --horse race--in Cheltenham once a year...
admittedly, people left the country to travel and emigrate en masse, but nothing like the scots or english in number or ambition over the centuries, and in any case, these adventurers were the exception that proved the rule, not the rule by any means.
having said that, the comparison is a bit of a stretch, I grant you, because being inward and illiterate in the asian way is not the same deal... what Cambodia needs is a Pres Park to break the hermit spell and force them to modernixe and emigrate..but that takes money and /// education, too--cheers--slainte///!! and have a good weekend!!
admittedly, people left the country to travel and emigrate en masse, but nothing like the scots or english in number or ambition over the centuries, and in any case, these adventurers were the exception that proved the rule, not the rule by any means.
having said that, the comparison is a bit of a stretch, I grant you, because being inward and illiterate in the asian way is not the same deal... what Cambodia needs is a Pres Park to break the hermit spell and force them to modernixe and emigrate..but that takes money and /// education, too--cheers--slainte///!! and have a good weekend!!
Joined: '03; Member 39. Funny Quote: Prince Phillip to a driving Instructor in Scotland: "How do you keep the natives off the booze long enough to get them to pass the test?"
- Lucky Lucan
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the frigging 1990s when the govt forced the church to loosen its grip on society
How exactly did the government manage that? The answer is they didn't, you made it up.
Less than 5% of the Irish labor force works in agriculture.The Grand National is held in Aintree. If that's where people's "big trip abroad" is that's news to me, I've never heard of anyone going there.Agriculture, not literature, was peoples chief concern and I suspect that holds true today as well.the big trip abroad is to the Grand National --horse race--in Cheltenham once a year...
WTF?what Cambodia needs is a Pres Park to break the hermit spell
Good luck with the cabin fever.
Romantic Cambodia is dead and gone. It's with McKinley in the grave.
- khmerhit
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this is from a paper by one Joe Moran, an Irish academic available thru the good offices of Google.The power and authority of the Catholic Church was to remain strong up to the 1990s and its influence was particularly forceful and successful in its efforts to resist social reform in the domain where it saw itself as holding the moral monopoly, namely, on issues such as contraception, divorce and abortion. There is much consensus that the changed role of the Catholic Church in Ireland was an inevitable result of modernisation. Garvin (2004: 14) says that Church power had weakened since about 1960 in part because the elites believed that its ‘intellectual conformism and authoritarianism had failed the country and even endangered its future’. Inglis (1998: 76) observes ‘it may be more than a coincidence that the decline in the institutional power of the Church in the 1990s has been associated not only with the emergence of a new individualism, but with rapid economic growth’. Claffey (2009: 7) suggests, in the context of a broader discussion on secularism, that ‘I think it is fair to say that in general terms, we have followed ... large parts of the developed world where secularisation of one kind or another has almost inevitably followed technological and socio-political modernity’. Maher (2009: 3) broadens the explanation for this fundamental change and indicates that a number of forces are at play:
My point is that Cambodia is not the only inward-looking country, and at least it had a good excuse. Ireland had no such excuse but the weight of the past, which was really only lifted wholesale in the 90s, with an improved economy and coming to maturity of the sixties liberals, who in fact came to govern and introduced legislation to break the churchs hold on society. This was after UNTAC, btw.
as for the rest, there is a horse race in Cheltenham--sorry if I got the wrong one, mate, but my point stands. The Irish middle classes go abroad for horse racing, not exotic travels...
Park was the leader of South Korea who turned the economy around, from agriculture to industry.
Has this happened in Ireland? No.
a few Dell factories do not an industrial economy make.
I take your point on the farming stat, and stand corrected, but historically Ireland is a farming country, or did I mix up my stereo types somewhere along the way.
Have a good weekend. Paracetamol on the 2nd shelf.
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- Lucky Lucan
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The paper doesn't say the government forced anything, it's about the gradual effect of modernization.khmerhit wrote:
this is from a paper by one Joe Moran, an Irish academic available thru the good offices of Google.
Your point doesn't stand. Horse racing is very popular in Ireland and there are plenty of stud farms, but to say "The Irish middle classes go abroad for horse racing, not exotic travels," is nonsense. I happen to know hundreds of middle-class Irish people and I've never heard of any of them going to Anfield or Cheltenham. It's certainly possible that some have, but it's not the big destination you're imagining it as from your North American perspective.as for the rest, there is a horse race in Cheltenham--sorry if I got the wrong one, mate, but my point stands. The Irish middle classes go abroad for horse racing, not exotic travels...
No it hasn't, and it's not going to happen at this stage. The economy is services based, like many other western countries.Park was the leader of South Korea who turned the economy around, from agriculture to industry.
Has this happened in Ireland? No.
a few Dell factories do not an industrial economy make
Dell doesn't manufacture in Ireland anymore, it's facilities there all deal with technology development and IT.
I think you'll find that historically, most countries were.I take your point on the farming stat, and stand corrected, but historically Ireland is a farming country, or did I mix up my stereo types somewhere along the way.
You might think you're an expert on Ireland since watching "The Quiet Man" with John Wayne but it doesn't really have much bearing on reality. You should stick with the fur-trapping.My point is that Cambodia is not the only inward-looking country, and at least it had a good excuse. Ireland had no such excuse but the weight of the past, which was really only lifted wholesale in the 90s, with an improved economy and coming to maturity of the sixties liberals, who in fact came to govern and introduced legislation to break the churchs hold on society. This was after UNTAC, btw.
Romantic Cambodia is dead and gone. It's with McKinley in the grave.
The example pf the african man does not wash on australia.Australians are very wecoming people,I work with africans and afghans,irish and chinese ,kiwis,croations and serbs.
What ia an australian nowadays?
What ia an australian nowadays?
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khmers are historically scared by foreigners, neighbours, and foreign technology and inventions.
there's no reason for them to travel abroad, only monks eventually go around for pilgrimage or for studying, only the rich offprsings of the ruling elite study abroad and make business abroad, the average khmer barely moves around by bus for a wedding or a funeral and they're pretty happy with that.
can't even imagine the average khmer becoming suddenly "cosmopolitan", even here in PP.
studying english is a necessity rather than a choice, or they couldn't even use a mobile phone or read the name of the foods and drinks.
with time, maybe, they will also start reading newspapers and books, but don't bet on it !
i could easily blame the former rulers for keeping the population in complete ignorance, but are we sure this is the whole story ? as far as i see many khmer see knowledge as a hassle and a pain in the ass unless it's something quick and useful that they can apply right away in their daily life.
in the best scenario, they're "street smart", not smart, big difference !
there are good reasons if the chinese and vietnamese are outsmarting the khmers in pretty much every possible field.
there's no reason for them to travel abroad, only monks eventually go around for pilgrimage or for studying, only the rich offprsings of the ruling elite study abroad and make business abroad, the average khmer barely moves around by bus for a wedding or a funeral and they're pretty happy with that.
can't even imagine the average khmer becoming suddenly "cosmopolitan", even here in PP.
studying english is a necessity rather than a choice, or they couldn't even use a mobile phone or read the name of the foods and drinks.
with time, maybe, they will also start reading newspapers and books, but don't bet on it !
i could easily blame the former rulers for keeping the population in complete ignorance, but are we sure this is the whole story ? as far as i see many khmer see knowledge as a hassle and a pain in the ass unless it's something quick and useful that they can apply right away in their daily life.
in the best scenario, they're "street smart", not smart, big difference !
there are good reasons if the chinese and vietnamese are outsmarting the khmers in pretty much every possible field.
Last edited by PhotoKhmer on Sun Aug 26, 2012 9:30 am, edited 1 time in total.
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well, multiracialism and multiculturalism has been imposed down the throat of australians, they've never had the option to choose, most of the white aussies i know would pretty well go back to the old "white australia" rule but they're shy to tell you in public.ken svay wrote:The example pf the african man does not wash on australia.Australians are very wecoming people,I work with africans and afghans,irish and chinese ,kiwis,croations and serbs.
What ia an australian nowadays?
the "new" australian is the carbon copy of the average american, just a bit more travelled, cosmopolitan, and less redneck.
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well that's a big statement .. for most of the last 500 yrs it was the dutch, french, brits, spanish, and the portuguese keeping SE asia by the balls, the chinese had a minimal role until the last 100 yrs and especially until the last 20-30 yrs.Lucky Lucan wrote: There's no "in the meantime." In case you didn't notice, the Chinese have dominated business here, and elsewhere in SE Asia, for about 500 years.
they had their biz in the major towns, but we're far from saying they "dominated" anything.
we can still see opulent 19th century chinese villas and small chinatowns in Penang, in Hue, in Hoi An, in Bangkok, in Melaka, in Batavia, but what else ?
- Jacked Camry
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So now we see the next step of the MO. Assert some bullshit based on your minimal understanding of Asia, then wait a day to see whether someone comes along to correct it. If nobody does, then assume the blind squirrel indeed found a nut and carry on as if it were gospel.PhotoKhmer wrote:well that's a big statement .. for most of the last 500 yrs it was the dutch, french, brits, spanish, and the portuguese keeping SE asia by the balls, the chinese had a minimal role until the last 100 yrs and especially until the last 20-30 yrs.Lucky Lucan wrote: There's no "in the meantime." In case you didn't notice, the Chinese have dominated business here, and elsewhere in SE Asia, for about 500 years.
they had their biz in the major towns, but we're far from saying they "dominated" anything.
we can still see opulent 19th century chinese villas and small chinatowns in Penang, in Hue, in Hoi An, in Bangkok, in Melaka, in Batavia, but what else ?
I've stopped correcting you because it's a full-time occupation. But just so you know - no, the Chinese and Vietnamese are not completely taking over and dominating the Cambodian commercial sector. You're thinking of Laos. No, the Chinese were not sitting around wondering what Whitey was up to for the last 500 years then suddenly the light bulb went on. So you can discard this one and move on to your next ill-founded, unsupported assertion. The reason we keep shooting you down is that we actually read history books. You might try it, beats the "trial and error" method of learning history.
- Lucky Lucan
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Just to back that up, for example in 1897 the population of Phnom Penh was about 50,000. About 400 were French, 22,000 were Chinese, 4,000 were Annamites and 16,000 were Cambodians. From "Phnom Penh Then and Now" by Michel Igout.jm wrote:PhotoKhmer wrote: We're talking about business here. Phnom Penh as a trading center was dominated by the Chinese for quite a long time. They comprised about a third of the town's population, not a '' small Chinatown''.
Romantic Cambodia is dead and gone. It's with McKinley in the grave.
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