Syam Kuk of Angkor

[kke802]

Is the information false due of certain information? There is also a Sanskrit word called
Shyama which mean "Yellowish white".

[bdbsvay]

It's been a while since I've read his articles but Vickery contends that it can only be interpreted to refer to a location based on the evidence, and that the people were likely Khmer. I think SEAhistory has written a few posts on the subject too.

[SEAhistory]

It's been a while since I've read his articles but Vickery contends that it can only be interpreted to refer to a location based on the evidence, and that the people were likely Khmer. I think SEAhistory has written a few posts on the subject too.

Yes, the Syam-kuk were most likely aborigines from Southern Thailand. Interestingly, they seemed to have fought against Burmese people, alongside Khmer and Kuy troops. Then they were sieged by the Cham people, who, according to a Cham inscription, took home Syam slaves, where the name appeared first.

Most likely, Syam was a designation of the area, and it became to name the country of modern day Thailand at one point. If it has anything to do with the meaning of 'dark/black' I don't know.

It seems that Suryavarman II (possibly of Kuy descend) raised an army among them. They then attacked Champa, and the image and inscription seems to indicate that their conquest was succesful. There was a historian named Maurizio Peleggi who also thought they belonged to indigenous Kuy populations. according to his study.

According to the inscription, the troops came from Southern Thailand. According to the image, the people were of a totally different ethnic stock, and they resemble none of the other tribes depicted on the walls of the temples of Cambodia, while every tribe depicted is seen with their own unique features. However, there are no indigenous Kuy populations in Southern Thailand, only the indigenous Aslian people, who were, like the most ancient Cambodians, Austro-Melanesian mixed with Austroasiatic. We know from Mon inscriptions that there were Kuy generals who ruled certain Mon populations, and therefore it seems plausible that Kuy generals also ruled over the tribes in the region that was called 'Syam'.

If they were part of a Kuy military force, it is possible that they ended up residing in Cambodia. A French writer who visited the Kuy tribes in Cambodia in the 18th century commented how one tribe of Kuy people were rather negroid-looking, meaning to have darker skin and curly hair. It is possible that these are the descendants of the Southern Siamese Kuk troops. He found the characteristics of this Kuy tribe very odd, since he described that Kuy people in general looked more Asian, with many having Vedoid characteristics, but no negroid features at all.

The indigenous tribes of Southern Thailand belong to the Austro-Melanesian/Austroasiatic stock, of which the modern tribes of Mani and Aslian people also belong. My personall guess is that these tribes once came under Khmer/Kuy influence, and became military allies of Hinduist Kuy/Khmer troops, who attacked Buddhist Burmese territory, who then were attacked by Buddhist Champa during the Hinduist/Buddhist war of which the captives were made slaves, and who then were used by Suryavarman II to wage war against Buddhist Champa, and then became part of the Kuy tribes and ended up in Cambodia.

Maybe there was a fault in translation? Maybe it should have written "Syem Kuy" (Dark Kuy/Kuy from Syem)?

[kke802]

It's been a while since I've read his articles but Vickery contends that it can only be interpreted to refer to a location based on the evidence, and that the people were likely Khmer. I think SEAhistory has written a few posts on the subject too.

Yes, the Syam-kuk were most likely aborigines from Southern Thailand. Interestingly, they seemed to have fought against Burmese people, alongside Khmer and Kuy troops. Then they were sieged by the Cham people, who, according to a Cham inscription, took home Syam slaves, where the name appeared first.

Most likely, Syam was a designation of the area, and it became to name the country of modern day Thailand at one point. If it has anything to do with the meaning of 'dark/black' I don't know.

It seems that Suryavarman II (possibly of Kuy descend) raised an army among them. They then attacked Champa, and the image and inscription seems to indicate that their conquest was succesful. There was a historian named Maurizio Peleggi who also thought they belonged to indigenous Kuy populations. according to his study.

According to the inscription, the troops came from Southern Thailand. According to the image, the people were of a totally different ethnic stock, and they resemble none of the other tribes depicted on the walls of the temples of Cambodia, while every tribe depicted is seen with their own unique features. However, there are no indigenous Kuy populations in Southern Thailand, only the indigenous Aslian people, who were, like the most ancient Cambodians, Austro-Melanesian mixed with Austroasiatic. We know from Mon inscriptions that there were Kuy generals who ruled certain Mon populations, and therefore it seems plausible that Kuy generals also ruled over the tribes in the region that was called 'Syam'.

If they were part of a Kuy military force, it is possible that they ended up residing in Cambodia. A French writer who visited the Kuy tribes in Cambodia in the 18th century commented how one tribe of Kuy people were rather negroid-looking, meaning to have darker skin and curly hair. It is possible that these are the descendants of the Southern Siamese Kuk troops. He found the characteristics of this Kuy tribe very odd, since he described that Kuy people in general looked more Asian, with many having Vedoid characteristics, but no negroid features at all.

The indigenous tribes of Southern Thailand belong to the Austro-Melanesian/Austroasiatic stock, of which the modern tribes of Mani and Aslian people also belong. My personall guess is that these tribes once came under Khmer/Kuy influence, and became military allies of Hinduist Kuy/Khmer troops, who attacked Buddhist Burmese territory, who then were attacked by Buddhist Champa during the Hinduist/Buddhist war of which the captives were made slaves, and who then were used by Suryavarman II to wage war against Buddhist Champa, and then became part of the Kuy tribes and ended up in Cambodia.

Maybe there was a fault in translation? Maybe it should have written "Syem Kuy" (Dark Kuy/Kuy from Syem)?

I see, so let me guess straight. The ethnic Kuy of today are partially descendant to Syam Kuk? Did the Tai that migrated have any contact with Syam Kuk when they first arrived. Man, this really getting confusing. Lol

[SEAhistory]

[/quote]

I see, so let me guess straight. The ethnic Kuy of today are partially descendant to Syam Kuk? Did the Tai that migrated have any contact with Syam Kuk when they first arrived. Man, this really getting confusing. Lol
[/quote]

Who the Syam Kuk really were is open to debate, but most historians assume they were indigenous tribes from Southern Thailand. There is no doubt that they came from Southern Thailand, which means they most likely descended from the indigenous people who lived there who were ethnically different from all other populations, and the image reveals that the people were indeed ethnically different with their unique hairdresses, costumes, and weapons.

The Thai people that migrated into Thailand started to mingle with the Mon people who already lived in Northern Thailand, and they created a mixed Mon/Thai society. This mixed Mon/Thai society became Sukhothai.

When the royal house of Cambodia was the ruling power of the Mon and Khmer people in the 12th century (Suryavarman II), the Thai people were not present yet in Thailand, or at least, they were not yet a force to be reckoned with. Before Sukhothai, there is no evidence that Thai/Tai people were present in modern day Thailand, or at least, there is no proof of Thai language being introduced before Sukhothai, a new Thai material culture that popped up, or anything else that would prove they migrated into Thailand.

The Thai people emerged suddenly out of nothing with the founding of Sukhothai. What we know from Sukhothai, the Thai people came under the rule of Hinduist chiefdoms who were tied to the royal court of Angkor, which was ruled by the HInduist king Suryavarman II. It is possible that Suryavarman II was Kuy himself, or, at least, many of his troops were Kuy and Khmer. You can see the mixed armies of Khmer and Kuy people on the walls of Angkor.

When the Thai people rebelled against their Hinduist overlords, Angkor itself was no longer Hinduist. Suryavarman II waged a war against Buddhists, but he was killed, and eventually Jayavarman VII, a Mahayana Buddhist himself, conquered Angkor from Champa and made it a Buddhist country. It was his reign that layed the foundation for all the kings of Angkor to come after him.

The Thai people of Sukhothai became Buddhist warriors fighting for the new Buddhist Angkorian throne after their legendary victory over their Hinduist rulers. These Hinduist rulers were associated with Suryavarman II, but became autonomous chiefdoms when Suryavarman was killed. The Thai people of Sukhothai became allies of the new Buddhist royal court of Angkor, and the identity of the Thai people in Thailand was born.

When looking at religion, it becomes less confusing. There were two factions: a Hinduist Faction and a Buddhist faction. Suryavarman II and his allies were Hindu, while Champa and their allies were Buddhists. The Buddhist faction existed out of Burma, Champa, and Indonesia (Sri Vijaya and Sailendra), while the Hindu faction existed out of India (Rajendra Chola), Angkor (suryavarman II) and his Hindu allies all over Thailand.

Champa was victorious, so Angkor became Buddhist under the rule of Jayavarman VII (who was raised at Champa, and conquered Angkor with a Cham army).

The Syem Kuk were allies of the Hinduist king Suryavarman II, but enemies of the Buddhist Cham people, and who fought against the Burmese Buddhists before they were raided by the Buddhist Cham people. It is possible that they ended up in Cambodia during the reign of Suryavarman II, as they disappeared from Southern Thailand and are seen to accompany Suryavarman II towards a battle with the Cham people.