Mines and UXO - countries of origin
- sounds_never_seen
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Mines and UXO - countries of origin
While the Cambodian government tries to avoid paying back the US-debt, referring to the US-bombardment during the Vietnam war, I keep asking myself what percentage of UXO actually stems from the USA.
Afaik mines make up most of the casualties, but the US army never used mines. Other kinds of UXO, like bombs and rockets, are not exclusively American as well. (I just read about Russian B-40 rockets killing locals eg.)
So, is there a statistic available that distinguishes between the countries of origin of UXO and related casualties?
Afaik mines make up most of the casualties, but the US army never used mines. Other kinds of UXO, like bombs and rockets, are not exclusively American as well. (I just read about Russian B-40 rockets killing locals eg.)
So, is there a statistic available that distinguishes between the countries of origin of UXO and related casualties?
- Lucky Lucan
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The US certainly did use mines, but not the ones we are generally concerned with in terms of casualties in Cambodia.
Most of the larger UXOs in Cambodia are of US origin, the Khmer Air Force also dropped a huge number of US supplied munitions.
However, most of the mines in Cambodia were laid down post 1979 along the Thai border. They were cheap and could serve a number of purposes. China/ USSR/ Vietnam/ Yugoslavia and various other eastern bloc countries supplied the mines. The PRK/ PAVN tried to build a huge barrier through the jungle, with giant berms, ditches, punji traps and 100 meters of minefield on either side.
Some factions, the PDK for example, used mines as much as a terror weapon than to defend any perimeter. So they would place a mine on a path where they new a farmer would tread on his daily rounds. Once this happens one time everyone else becomes terrified just to farm their land.
There has been a huge decline in the number of UXO/Mine related deaths in recent years. Many of the more tragic ones used to involve misadventure, because people would try to recover the metal or extract the TNT from the UXOs, or other times they would do stupid things like throw the thing around, put it in the fire, etc. So nowadays there is a better understanding of why you shouldn't play with these devices. There have also been issues with heavy vehicles/ tractors etc driving through mud and hitting off anti-tank mines, but these again seem much less prevalent, probably because of an improved road system but also due to the efforts of CMAC and all the other agencies working to make the ground safer.
Most of the larger UXOs in Cambodia are of US origin, the Khmer Air Force also dropped a huge number of US supplied munitions.
However, most of the mines in Cambodia were laid down post 1979 along the Thai border. They were cheap and could serve a number of purposes. China/ USSR/ Vietnam/ Yugoslavia and various other eastern bloc countries supplied the mines. The PRK/ PAVN tried to build a huge barrier through the jungle, with giant berms, ditches, punji traps and 100 meters of minefield on either side.
Some factions, the PDK for example, used mines as much as a terror weapon than to defend any perimeter. So they would place a mine on a path where they new a farmer would tread on his daily rounds. Once this happens one time everyone else becomes terrified just to farm their land.
There has been a huge decline in the number of UXO/Mine related deaths in recent years. Many of the more tragic ones used to involve misadventure, because people would try to recover the metal or extract the TNT from the UXOs, or other times they would do stupid things like throw the thing around, put it in the fire, etc. So nowadays there is a better understanding of why you shouldn't play with these devices. There have also been issues with heavy vehicles/ tractors etc driving through mud and hitting off anti-tank mines, but these again seem much less prevalent, probably because of an improved road system but also due to the efforts of CMAC and all the other agencies working to make the ground safer.
Let's just say it's a delicate topic.sounds_never_seen wrote:
So, is there a statistic available that distinguishes between the countries of origin of UXO and related casualties?
Romantic Cambodia is dead and gone. It's with McKinley in the grave.
2 land mines were discovered in Battambang province yesterday after a forest fire cleared growth.
https://goo.gl/OqUJWP
Incredible to think they've just been sitting there waiting to be triggered for so many years.
https://goo.gl/OqUJWP
Incredible to think they've just been sitting there waiting to be triggered for so many years.
I mentioned this same subject in the UNTAC thread but got beaten down by posters saying it was immaterial blah, blah, blah.
Mainly by OML and as it was his contributing thread I let it go. The big patronising flouncer.
Mainly by OML and as it was his contributing thread I let it go. The big patronising flouncer.
pew, pew, pew, pew!
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The big patronising flouncer seems to recall that others with active military service in SVN and personal involvement with mines were very much of a similar view point.
And as far as land mines go the majority of mines laid throughout Cambodia came from Eastern Block countries and certainly not from the USA.
The US contribution is aerial ERWs (Explosive Remnants of War) to use the current international jargon for what used to be called UXO's
Some, relatively few, mines of US origin were laid during the relatively short and disastrous incursion in March 1970 in to Svay Rieng Province, and then by ARVN troops, which was preceded by Operation Commando Vault about which this flouncer took part and posted to forum for the likes of YTP who probably spend their lives classifying the snap of a twig by its botanical name and damage caused.
I had quite a lot more to contribute to that thread of mine, as did fellow travellers, until it was so polluted by those who could not stand back and let it unfold. I shan't be returning to it even though I will be back in country very shortly.
OML
And as far as land mines go the majority of mines laid throughout Cambodia came from Eastern Block countries and certainly not from the USA.
The US contribution is aerial ERWs (Explosive Remnants of War) to use the current international jargon for what used to be called UXO's
Some, relatively few, mines of US origin were laid during the relatively short and disastrous incursion in March 1970 in to Svay Rieng Province, and then by ARVN troops, which was preceded by Operation Commando Vault about which this flouncer took part and posted to forum for the likes of YTP who probably spend their lives classifying the snap of a twig by its botanical name and damage caused.
I had quite a lot more to contribute to that thread of mine, as did fellow travellers, until it was so polluted by those who could not stand back and let it unfold. I shan't be returning to it even though I will be back in country very shortly.
OML
- Felgerkarb
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Ot Mean Loi wrote:The big patronising flouncer seems to recall that others with active military service in SVN and personal involvement with mines were very much of a similar view point.
And as far as land mines go the majority of mines laid throughout Cambodia came from Eastern Block countries and certainly not from the USA.
The US contribution is aerial ERWs (Explosive Remnants of War) to use the current international jargon for what used to be called UXO's
Some, relatively few, mines of US origin were laid during the relatively short and disastrous incursion in March 1970 in to Svay Rieng Province, and then by ARVN troops, which was preceded by Operation Commando Vault about which this flouncer took part and posted to forum for the likes of YTP who probably spend their lives classifying the snap of a twig by its botanical name and damage caused.
I had quite a lot more to contribute to that thread of mine, as did fellow travellers, until it was so polluted by those who could not stand back and let it unfold. I shan't be returning to it even though I will be back in country very shortly.
OML
Sorry to hear that OML. I stopped too. But your stuff is better, so a great loss.
====================
Why are the gods such vicious cunts?
Where is the god of tits and wine?
Why are the gods such vicious cunts?
Where is the god of tits and wine?
Agreed. Please do continue. It was fascinating stuff ( but that was a bit of a flounce above!).Felgerkarb wrote:Ot Mean Loi wrote:The big patronising flouncer seems to recall that others with active military service in SVN and personal involvement with mines were very much of a similar view point.
And as far as land mines go the majority of mines laid throughout Cambodia came from Eastern Block countries and certainly not from the USA.
The US contribution is aerial ERWs (Explosive Remnants of War) to use the current international jargon for what used to be called UXO's
Some, relatively few, mines of US origin were laid during the relatively short and disastrous incursion in March 1970 in to Svay Rieng Province, and then by ARVN troops, which was preceded by Operation Commando Vault about which this flouncer took part and posted to forum for the likes of YTP who probably spend their lives classifying the snap of a twig by its botanical name and damage caused.
I had quite a lot more to contribute to that thread of mine, as did fellow travellers, until it was so polluted by those who could not stand back and let it unfold. I shan't be returning to it even though I will be back in country very shortly.
OML
Sorry to hear that OML. I stopped too. But your stuff is better, so a great loss.
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Nah. It's all in the past now and best left there.
Those who have been there understand. Those who have never experienced active service never will understand.
Back in country in about 20 days for Khmer new Year and ANZAC Day.
Tried to get accepted as an International Election Monitor but the NEC can't even bother to reply.
The NEC - website seems to be all for show and propaganda.
Old farts/flouncers like me may tell it like we see it. Not what they want to hear at all.
OML
Those who have been there understand. Those who have never experienced active service never will understand.
Back in country in about 20 days for Khmer new Year and ANZAC Day.
Tried to get accepted as an International Election Monitor but the NEC can't even bother to reply.
The NEC - website seems to be all for show and propaganda.
Old farts/flouncers like me may tell it like we see it. Not what they want to hear at all.
OML
That is your right and totally understood.
I can't help thinking though that if more of the people who saw armed combat spoke about it there might be less of it.
I remember even Margaret Thatcher had serious discussions with those members of her cabinet who had fought before she went to war with Argentina.
By contrast, Tony Blair's cabinet was the first to contain nobody who had seen active combat and what a fucking butcher he turned out to be with his fellow Christian, George.
I had an old drinking friend who was on the Burma railway amongst other things. He and i had grand plans to write down all his experiences but of course we just drank then he died and took extraordinary and awful stories with him.
Not sure what I'm trying to say except that may be those that don't understand, like me, need to understand to stop war happening quite so often.
I can't help thinking though that if more of the people who saw armed combat spoke about it there might be less of it.
I remember even Margaret Thatcher had serious discussions with those members of her cabinet who had fought before she went to war with Argentina.
By contrast, Tony Blair's cabinet was the first to contain nobody who had seen active combat and what a fucking butcher he turned out to be with his fellow Christian, George.
I had an old drinking friend who was on the Burma railway amongst other things. He and i had grand plans to write down all his experiences but of course we just drank then he died and took extraordinary and awful stories with him.
Not sure what I'm trying to say except that may be those that don't understand, like me, need to understand to stop war happening quite so often.
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Felgerkarb wrote:Ot Mean Loi wrote:The big patronising flouncer seems to recall that others with active military service in SVN and personal involvement with mines were very much of a similar view point.
And as far as land mines go the majority of mines laid throughout Cambodia came from Eastern Block countries and certainly not from the USA.
The US contribution is aerial ERWs (Explosive Remnants of War) to use the current international jargon for what used to be called UXO's
Some, relatively few, mines of US origin were laid during the relatively short and disastrous incursion in March 1970 in to Svay Rieng Province, and then by ARVN troops, which was preceded by Operation Commando Vault about which this flouncer took part and posted to forum for the likes of YTP who probably spend their lives classifying the snap of a twig by its botanical name and damage caused.
I had quite a lot more to contribute to that thread of mine, as did fellow travellers, until it was so polluted by those who could not stand back and let it unfold. I shan't be returning to it even though I will be back in country very shortly.
OML
Sorry to hear that OML. I stopped too. But your stuff is better, so a great loss.
I seriously hope that you will both reconsider.
Best thread in 7 years for me personally.
I'm glad the old flouncer took my comments the way they were intended. A bit of ribbing.
I'm pretty sure I never polluted that thread (If you call my question about mines pollution then so be it). I just read it with enthusiasm.
I honestly hope OML continues to regale us with his astonishingly detailed recollections. (And Felgerchrist, PSD_kiwi ect)
I'm pretty sure I never polluted that thread (If you call my question about mines pollution then so be it). I just read it with enthusiasm.
I honestly hope OML continues to regale us with his astonishingly detailed recollections. (And Felgerchrist, PSD_kiwi ect)
pew, pew, pew, pew!
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I actually got a reply from the Cambodian NEC - Cambodian National Election Committee - and the bilingual application forms.
It only took two (2) emails and a number of never picked up phone calls during Cambodian Office hours to the number given on the NEC website.
It's a set up clearly designed to filter out any independently open minded International Observers for the 2017 elections and I guess it will be the same for 2018.
Yes. The CPP controls everything including the supposedly independent NEC.
OML
It only took two (2) emails and a number of never picked up phone calls during Cambodian Office hours to the number given on the NEC website.
It's a set up clearly designed to filter out any independently open minded International Observers for the 2017 elections and I guess it will be the same for 2018.
Yes. The CPP controls everything including the supposedly independent NEC.
OML
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For those thinking about becoming Independent International Election Monitors please see here:
https://www.necelect.org.kh/khmer/node/1654
Good luck.
OML
https://www.necelect.org.kh/khmer/node/1654
Good luck.
OML
Is there a contact for volunteers to stuff the ballot boxes, or same outfit?
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