I always wonder why the Thai would disassociate with anything that is related to Khmer culture? I have spoken to my Laotian friends about the relationship and history between Cambodia and Laos and they admit that they adopted Khmer culture and do not see a problem with it at all.Lucky Lucan wrote: ↑Thu Mar 18, 2021 1:12 amMy thoughts are that it is an ancient skill and predates Thai interference in the region. Just because the Thais invaded dozens of times and carried away Khmer riches, manpower, and the dancers and royalty doesn't mean they invented that stuff.
Your thoughts and opinions on Muay Thai and Kbach Kun Khmer history
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I always wonder why the Thai would disassociate with anything that is related to Khmer culture? I have spoken to my Laotian friends about the relationship and history between Cambodia and Laos and they admit that they adopted Khmer culture and do not see a problem with it at all.
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I think it has mostly to do with the fact that the modern monarchs were Thai which were greatly influenced by Chinese elite, and also by Mon elite culture, especially Burmese Mon, while the ancient Lao and Thai communities were strongly attached to Khmer elitist culture. The ancient Thai communities of Sukhothai and Southern Thailand, which had strong Khmer roots, were all merged into the new Thai narrative that was created by the Chinese/Mon/Thai elitists of the 19th century.
I always wonder why the Thai would disassociate with anything that is related to Khmer culture? I have spoken to my Laotian friends about the relationship and history between Cambodia and Laos and they admit that they adopted Khmer culture and do not see a problem with it at all.
[/quote]
I think it has mostly to do with the fact that the modern monarchs were Thai which were greatly influenced by Chinese elite, and also by Mon elite culture, especially Burmese Mon, while the ancient Lao and Thai communities were strongly attached to Khmer elitist culture. The ancient Thai communities of Sukhothai and Southern Thailand, which had strong Khmer roots, were all merged into the new Thai narrative that was created by the Chinese/Mon/Thai elitists of the 19th century.
I always wonder why the Thai would disassociate with anything that is related to Khmer culture? I have spoken to my Laotian friends about the relationship and history between Cambodia and Laos and they admit that they adopted Khmer culture and do not see a problem with it at all.
[/quote]
I think it has mostly to do with the fact that the modern monarchs were Thai which were greatly influenced by Chinese elite, and also by Mon elite culture, especially Burmese Mon, while the ancient Lao and Thai communities were strongly attached to Khmer elitist culture. The ancient Thai communities of Sukhothai and Southern Thailand, which had strong Khmer roots, were all merged into the new Thai narrative that was created by the Chinese/Mon/Thai elitists of the 19th century.
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Speaking of that are you familiar with Sujit Wongthes and Nidhi Eoseewong? They mention something about it in one of their books. I found something that mentions the two historian name from a different book.
https://books.google.com/books?id=6f0CM ... &q&f=false
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I think it has mostly to do with the fact that the modern monarchs were Thai which were greatly influenced by Chinese elite, and also by Mon elite culture, especially Burmese Mon, while the ancient Lao and Thai communities were strongly attached to Khmer elitist culture. The ancient Thai communities of Sukhothai and Southern Thailand, which had strong Khmer roots, were all merged into the new Thai narrative that was created by the Chinese/Mon/Thai elitists of the 19th century.kke802 wrote: ↑Sat Mar 20, 2021 1:05 pmI always wonder why the Thai would disassociate with anything that is related to Khmer culture? I have spoken to my Laotian friends about the relationship and history between Cambodia and Laos and they admit that they adopted Khmer culture and do not see a problem with it at all.
[/quote]
Speaking of that are you familiar with Sujit Wongthes and Nidhi Eoseewong? They mention something about it in one of their books. I found something that mentions the two historian name from a different book.
https://books.google.com/books?id=6f0CM ... &q&f=false
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No, I was not familliar with their existence or work. Seems like interesting historians to read up on, since they view history from a more open-minded and less nationalistic viewpoint. Will surely delve into their work! Thanks for sharing with me.
SEAhistory wrote: ↑Sat Mar 20, 2021 9:58 pmI think it has mostly to do with the fact that the modern monarchs were Thai which were greatly influenced by Chinese elite, and also by Mon elite culture, especially Burmese Mon, while the ancient Lao and Thai communities were strongly attached to Khmer elitist culture. The ancient Thai communities of Sukhothai and Southern Thailand, which had strong Khmer roots, were all merged into the new Thai narrative that was created by the Chinese/Mon/Thai elitists of the 19th century.kke802 wrote: ↑Sat Mar 20, 2021 1:05 pmI always wonder why the Thai would disassociate with anything that is related to Khmer culture? I have spoken to my Laotian friends about the relationship and history between Cambodia and Laos and they admit that they adopted Khmer culture and do not see a problem with it at all.
Speaking of that are you familiar with Sujit Wongthes and Nidhi Eoseewong? They mention something about it in one of their books. I found something that mentions the two historian name from a different book.
https://books.google.com/books?id=6f0CM ... &q&f=false
[/quote]
No, I was not familliar with their existence or work. Seems like interesting historians to read up on, since they view history from a more open-minded and less nationalistic viewpoint. Will surely delve into their work! Thanks for sharing with me.
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No problem, I have a link to one of their lecture videos. I don't know if you have access to Facebook but someone was able to get some clips. His post is posted for the public. https://www.facebook.com/vannak.kong.7/ ... 1505023134
Also, there are people that translated their lecture into English and I have some photos that I print screen. This is from a Facebook group page. The video has been posted many times on social media.
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No problem, I have a link to one of their lecture videos. I don't know if you have access to Facebook but someone was able to get some clips. His post is posted for the public. https://www.facebook.com/vannak.kong.7/ ... 1505023134
Also, there are people that translated their lecture into English and I have some photos that I print screen. This is from a Facebook group page. The video has been posted many times on social media.
[/quote]
I don't have Facebook, but I want to open a page soon and present the evidence that I've gathered. I am glad to see that there are other historians who have came with the same conclusions as I did. I will surely follow them and read up into their work. I'm sure they can also lead me in the right direction of more valuable information.
I saw you messaged Alex Tsui. I would like to have a fruitful debate with him some day. I kind of felt bad that I called him a fraud, but I just felt saddened and a bit angry by the fact that Cambodians are stolen from their history, while they are the first and only country to have had unarmed fighting as a competition tied to the royal court already in the tenth century, which also enjoyed the same status as their religious, priestly class of Hinduist and Buddhist rulers.
So we have scriptural evidence that Cambodia (when it was one of the most mighty empires of South East Asia in the tenth century) had created an elite class of Muay Thai (South East Asian fighting) warriors, an elite, royal competition of Muay Thai in Angkor, an elite status for the warriors that equated that of religious leaders, and a martial art of Muay Thai that was linked to the most mighty, royal court of South East Asia. However, everybody ignores these findings.
Also, interesting to read that the Thai word 'Damnern' (ดำเนิน) is Khmer. The most famous Muay Thai stadium in the world; the Radjadamnern stadium (ราชดำเนิน), is then a Khmer name. It means 'the King walks', which can be translated to 'the path of the king'. This name is then of Sanskrit + Khmer origin.
No problem, I have a link to one of their lecture videos. I don't know if you have access to Facebook but someone was able to get some clips. His post is posted for the public. https://www.facebook.com/vannak.kong.7/ ... 1505023134
Also, there are people that translated their lecture into English and I have some photos that I print screen. This is from a Facebook group page. The video has been posted many times on social media.
[/quote]
I don't have Facebook, but I want to open a page soon and present the evidence that I've gathered. I am glad to see that there are other historians who have came with the same conclusions as I did. I will surely follow them and read up into their work. I'm sure they can also lead me in the right direction of more valuable information.
I saw you messaged Alex Tsui. I would like to have a fruitful debate with him some day. I kind of felt bad that I called him a fraud, but I just felt saddened and a bit angry by the fact that Cambodians are stolen from their history, while they are the first and only country to have had unarmed fighting as a competition tied to the royal court already in the tenth century, which also enjoyed the same status as their religious, priestly class of Hinduist and Buddhist rulers.
So we have scriptural evidence that Cambodia (when it was one of the most mighty empires of South East Asia in the tenth century) had created an elite class of Muay Thai (South East Asian fighting) warriors, an elite, royal competition of Muay Thai in Angkor, an elite status for the warriors that equated that of religious leaders, and a martial art of Muay Thai that was linked to the most mighty, royal court of South East Asia. However, everybody ignores these findings.
Also, interesting to read that the Thai word 'Damnern' (ดำเนิน) is Khmer. The most famous Muay Thai stadium in the world; the Radjadamnern stadium (ราชดำเนิน), is then a Khmer name. It means 'the King walks', which can be translated to 'the path of the king'. This name is then of Sanskrit + Khmer origin.
No problem, I have a link to one of their lecture videos. I don't know if you have access to Facebook but someone was able to get some clips. His post is posted for the public. https://www.facebook.com/vannak.kong.7/ ... 1505023134
Also, there are people that translated their lecture into English and I have some photos that I print screen. This is from a Facebook group page. The video has been posted many times on social media.
[/quote]
I don't have Facebook, but I want to open a page soon and present the evidence that I've gathered. I am glad to see that there are other historians who have came with the same conclusions as I did. I will surely follow them and read up into their work. I'm sure they can also lead me in the right direction of more valuable information.
I saw you messaged Alex Tsui. I would like to have a fruitful debate with him some day. I kind of felt bad that I called him a fraud, but I just felt saddened and a bit angry by the fact that Cambodians are stolen from their history, while they are the first and only country to have had unarmed fighting as a competition tied to the royal court already in the tenth century, which also enjoyed the same status as their religious, priestly class of Hinduist and Buddhist rulers.
So we have scriptural evidence that Cambodia (when it was one of the most mighty empires of South East Asia in the tenth century) had created an elite class of Muay Thai (South East Asian fighting) warriors, an elite, royal competition of Muay Thai in Angkor, an elite status for the warriors that equated that of religious leaders, and a martial art of Muay Thai that was linked to the most mighty, royal court of South East Asia. However, everybody ignores these findings.
Also, interesting to read that the Thai word 'Damnern' (ดำเนิน) is Khmer. The most famous Muay Thai stadium in the world; the Radjadamnern stadium (ราชดำเนิน), is then a Khmer name. It means 'the King walks', which can be translated to 'the path of the king'. This name is then of Sanskrit + Khmer origin.
[/quote]
There are a lot of videos of Sujit Wongthes and Nidhi Eoseewong on youtube. You just have to type in their name in Thai and you'll see it. Most of their videos are about an hour long. Too bad, I don't understand the Thai language.
As for Mr.Tsui case, whether he is a fraud or not which I do not feel sorry for saying. I felt like he is only siding with the Thai side of history which I have no problem with. He did say he started researching in 1965 but I felt like isn't researching enough and his data is outdated. In this day in age, we got researchers discovering new things and adding in new data that can change the course of history.
ดำเนิน (ដំណើរ) is a Khmer word meaning "Journey, walking, or Traveling". It's interesting they took a Sanskrit word and adding it with a Khmer word to name their boxing stadium. The Thai language of today seems to need the Khmer word.
I don't have Facebook, but I want to open a page soon and present the evidence that I've gathered. I am glad to see that there are other historians who have came with the same conclusions as I did. I will surely follow them and read up into their work. I'm sure they can also lead me in the right direction of more valuable information.kke802 wrote: ↑Mon Mar 22, 2021 2:52 amNo problem, I have a link to one of their lecture videos. I don't know if you have access to Facebook but someone was able to get some clips. His post is posted for the public. https://www.facebook.com/vannak.kong.7/ ... 1505023134
Also, there are people that translated their lecture into English and I have some photos that I print screen. This is from a Facebook group page. The video has been posted many times on social media.
I saw you messaged Alex Tsui. I would like to have a fruitful debate with him some day. I kind of felt bad that I called him a fraud, but I just felt saddened and a bit angry by the fact that Cambodians are stolen from their history, while they are the first and only country to have had unarmed fighting as a competition tied to the royal court already in the tenth century, which also enjoyed the same status as their religious, priestly class of Hinduist and Buddhist rulers.
So we have scriptural evidence that Cambodia (when it was one of the most mighty empires of South East Asia in the tenth century) had created an elite class of Muay Thai (South East Asian fighting) warriors, an elite, royal competition of Muay Thai in Angkor, an elite status for the warriors that equated that of religious leaders, and a martial art of Muay Thai that was linked to the most mighty, royal court of South East Asia. However, everybody ignores these findings.
Also, interesting to read that the Thai word 'Damnern' (ดำเนิน) is Khmer. The most famous Muay Thai stadium in the world; the Radjadamnern stadium (ราชดำเนิน), is then a Khmer name. It means 'the King walks', which can be translated to 'the path of the king'. This name is then of Sanskrit + Khmer origin.
[/quote]
There are a lot of videos of Sujit Wongthes and Nidhi Eoseewong on youtube. You just have to type in their name in Thai and you'll see it. Most of their videos are about an hour long. Too bad, I don't understand the Thai language.
As for Mr.Tsui case, whether he is a fraud or not which I do not feel sorry for saying. I felt like he is only siding with the Thai side of history which I have no problem with. He did say he started researching in 1965 but I felt like isn't researching enough and his data is outdated. In this day in age, we got researchers discovering new things and adding in new data that can change the course of history.
ดำเนิน (ដំណើរ) is a Khmer word meaning "Journey, walking, or Traveling". It's interesting they took a Sanskrit word and adding it with a Khmer word to name their boxing stadium. The Thai language of today seems to need the Khmer word.
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Yeah it's too bad that the videos aren't in English but that thread was definitely an interesting read.
I'm not so sure that's the right interpretation tbh. I just don't think the person who named the stadium even realized that ดำเนิน is a Khmer word, or that ราช is a Sanskrit word transmitted into the Thai lexicon by way of Khmer. I forget where I read this, but someone had suggested that រាជាដំណើរ or រាជដំណើរ may have been some of the very first Khmer words ever heard by the Tai peoples as they migrated from Yunnan into Southeast Asia along the 'king's passage'.
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[/quote]
Yeah it's too bad that the videos aren't in English but that thread was definitely an interesting read.
I'm not so sure that's the right interpretation tbh. I just don't think the person who named the stadium even realized that ดำเนิน is a Khmer word, or that ราช is a Sanskrit word transmitted into the Thai lexicon by way of Khmer. I forget where I read this, but someone had suggested that រាជាដំណើរ or រាជដំណើរ may have been some of the very first Khmer words ever heard by the Tai peoples as they migrated from Yunnan into Southeast Asia along the 'king's passage'.
[/quote]
Interesting interpretation of ดำเนิน being called the kings 'passage'. Who knows, it could be their first words, and based on their first system of taxes that they had to pay to their royal overlords when they entered and settled the new lands of their new king.
Yeah it's too bad that the videos aren't in English but that thread was definitely an interesting read.
I'm not so sure that's the right interpretation tbh. I just don't think the person who named the stadium even realized that ดำเนิน is a Khmer word, or that ราช is a Sanskrit word transmitted into the Thai lexicon by way of Khmer. I forget where I read this, but someone had suggested that រាជាដំណើរ or រាជដំណើរ may have been some of the very first Khmer words ever heard by the Tai peoples as they migrated from Yunnan into Southeast Asia along the 'king's passage'.
[/quote]
Interesting interpretation of ดำเนิน being called the kings 'passage'. Who knows, it could be their first words, and based on their first system of taxes that they had to pay to their royal overlords when they entered and settled the new lands of their new king.
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