Your thoughts and opinions on Muay Thai and Kbach Kun Khmer history
Your thoughts and opinions on Muay Thai and Kbach Kun Khmer history
I saw this piece under a wiki page while was doing a bit of research on khmer martial arts and I would like to know your thoughts and opinions about this written by Alex Tsui.
Reference
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Muay ... hai_myths?
Who first : Muaythai or Boxkator (Cambodian)written by Alex Tsui
Alex Tsui (Muay Thai historian)- The debate on Muaythai vs. Cambodian Boxe Libre seems to be everlasting. I am a friend of Grand master San Kim Saen since the early 2000, before Bokator became known outside Cambodia. I am a historian on fighting arts — majoring in Muay Thai and other S.E. Asian disciplines, and actually began 1n 1965. The views below are part of my findings and I draw no race lines, being Chinese raised in the former British colony of Hong Kong. I taught (since 1975),wrote, commented, promoted and officiated, in Hongkong, China, Thailand & Myanmar.
First, I believe the combat arts of Thailand, Cambodia, Laos, Vietnam, and Burma all had a common root in the distant past — probably when their forefathers were inhabiting various regions as minority groups in Yunnan. We are talking about the time of Gautama, the Buddha, i.e. before B.C. 544 or 2,500 years from our time. Fusion and cross-pollination of the tribal cutlures had been taking place since time immemorial, through war and inter-marriage. We only have different names such as Muaythai, Kun Khmer or Myanmar Let Whyat and Tu Luyen Vo Tu Do ( free-style boxing art ) because of political preference – often dictated by nationalism – and/or regional cultural and conceptual / linguistic inclinations. These elements, over the face of changing history, have influenced the arts in diffrenent ways and to varying extents. Indochina, in the most ancient times, was known as Suvannabhumi ( the Golden Land ), and tribes of settlers and migrants, from China as well as the oceanic islands, were roaming freely with no recognizable boundaries. The ancient Yue ( Southern Barbarians in Chinese History ) , and the Wa people were there, preceded by the more indigenous or native Negroid and primitive Paleo-Caucasoid groups. Ancestors of the Thai, Khmer, and Mon-Burmans were all in Yunnan, around the region of Erhai Lake, as tribal confederates, and each, invariably, had been subject to Chines influence at divers times and to different degrees dependent on the extent of the Chinese rule over or interaction with the particular people. Tribes of the primeval Shan-Tai, for example, goes way back, to the age of Emperor Yaodi (B.C.2282). They had been on the move since, progressively sidelined as the power game in the cental mainland changed its political complexion.
The ancient Shan-Tai groups were migrating into the Indochina peninsula as early as B.C.425. The Cambodians, on the other hand, founded Funan ( A.D.85 ), which was annexed by Chenla in A.D.657. Chenla was a state of mixed races. The primary ones being Cambodians, Indonesian, and the ancient Shan-Tais. In A.D. 707 Chenla split up with the southern part ( Water ) dominated by the Khmers, and the upper ( Land ), by the Shan-Tai-Lao groups. Chinese chroncles attest that Land Chenla, also known as Wen Shen ( Thai language Vieng Shan ), was a glamorous state, and its capital, as we can ascertain today, was Ubon Ratchathani, in northeastern Thailand. Chenla, as far as one can establish, was from the line of Funan, and founded by an Indian prince ( Ksatriya caste ), but constituted by Thai-Lao & Khmer tribes.
A unified Cambodia only emerged in A.D.902, after which the Great Empire of Angkor took over almost the whole of the Menam basin. It is public knowledge that before Siam was officially founded at Sukhothai, the Thai people had been living under Khmer rule, and also, after the fall of Angkor (A.D.1420), a century of Khmerization occurred in Siam. There can be little dispute that the best of Cambodian art and culture had not only continued to develop in the land of its conqueror, but things such as language, architecture, Court rituals, astrology, drama and dancing were received with great passion. It was so intense that the arts and religion of the two civilizations began to merge to a degree never so visibly before.
Noteworthy is the fact that, five centuries later, Cambodia, having lost in the traumatic dark age of the Khmer Rouge almost entirely her classical dancing tradition, managed to re-import the art from Thailand.
So, the question of who has stolen from whom, or who owes her art to whom ? is just too emotive — and perhaps complicated — a subject to resolve by martial art fans. Insofar as historical information is concerned, the points below maybe useful to all those endeavouring to determine the truth, or what came closest to it :
1) The Shan-Tai racial family had a history traceable to the dawn of Chinese civilization. The Cambodians, however, first appeared in around the Eastern Zhou dynasty ( after B.C.770 ) although as a people, they may be some 3,000 years old. The Mon people were in Indochina before the Tai migration and dominated over the other settler groups with the founding of Dvaravati in 500 A.D., and the Burmans, like the Tais, had been inhabiting southwestern China, before moving down to the Golden Land much later, in around the 6th century.
2) The Shan-Tai men were always a fighting race, with a long custom of assigning soldiers (warriors) to watch their village. These were men trained in fighting, with swords or fists.
3) A custom of martial contests at festivals, held to celebrate victory at war, alongside liberal drinking and ecstatic dancing, prevailed in the Kingdom of Ye Lang ( around 400 B.C. ) in Yunnan. It was the largest of the confederates of minority races, with the prime rivals being the Tai and the Yi ( karen ) groups within the state.
4) Indian fighting arts came into the Suvannabhumi region when traders, warrior princes ( Shakya ), and religious missions came east. The first city-state, Ta Gaung, in upper Myanmar, was founded in B.C.850 ( my reckoning is B.C.424 ) by a Shakya prince, Abhi Raza. The state became Tai centuries later. The word “muay” had its origin in the Sanskrit name, Malla, a fighting clan in northeastern India, which has been taken to mean pugilism or a professional wrestler – fighter.
5) Freestyle boxing as a tradition in Southeast Asia possibly took root first in the Korat plateau, during the Chenla period. It is now known to the Thais as the Upper Cambodia region, and the territory has produced many of the premier muaythai fighters in history. Conversely, Battambang, the best known place for its kickboxing culture in Cambodian, has been a Thai province for centuries until 1907. Van Shen ( capital of Land Chenla ), as the name implies, was Town of the Shans. One tribe, the Xang Khao (white elephant ), was recorded in a Chinese document dated 638 A.D. as ” men are, by custom, savage, and brave in combat.” Subsequently, it became the Lao city of Lanxang.
6) At the annual temple fair at Bakong, likely from A.D.889 onwards, boxing became a popular event. Was it Cambodian, or Shan ? Perhaps there was no distinction then.
7) Thailand’s muay tradition was already a known national heritage by the 50′s. The best of Boxe Libre ( in the 60′s ) were nowhere as potent as the the top Thais, due to difference in the industry’s economy on each side, and the comparative popularity in result. Sar Sary, the Cambodian legend, was kayo’d in R2 by Nilpad Lukthon of Thailand at Phnom Penh in 1958, and in March, 1974, at Bangkok’s Rajadamnern Stadium, a Thai vs. Khmer card concluded with 5 : 0 result. Amongst the defeated were the best of Cambodia, including Chea Sarak (148) ( who died a victim of the Khmer Rouge regime ),and Chhith Sarim (118), National Coach for Cambodia’s revived kickboxing in the past decade. I cannot see they could made a worthwhile comparison with the likes of Somdej Yontarakit, Apidej Sidhiran or Puth Lawlek.
Wrestling, presumably Hindu, was part of royal court entertainment in Siam until the 19th century, after which it has been Muay all the way. It was, based on the logic of evolution, eliminated and assimilated by the surviving art, which has been enriched in technological contents in that process. Sport muaythai, what we see today, is only the permissible part of Muay. The Muay Boran — red uniforms and yantra-marked vests — much talked about nowadays is actually Classical Muaythai ( Kadcheuak or bare-knuckled ), whereas real Muay Boran (Muai) is the amateur form of ancient boxing embodying forms and patterns of animals. They are still around, with grappling and finger/palm strikes, locks and throws, body drops and takedowns, in remote regions of Lao, Thailand (north) and Yunnan.
Reference
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Muay ... hai_myths?
Who first : Muaythai or Boxkator (Cambodian)written by Alex Tsui
Alex Tsui (Muay Thai historian)- The debate on Muaythai vs. Cambodian Boxe Libre seems to be everlasting. I am a friend of Grand master San Kim Saen since the early 2000, before Bokator became known outside Cambodia. I am a historian on fighting arts — majoring in Muay Thai and other S.E. Asian disciplines, and actually began 1n 1965. The views below are part of my findings and I draw no race lines, being Chinese raised in the former British colony of Hong Kong. I taught (since 1975),wrote, commented, promoted and officiated, in Hongkong, China, Thailand & Myanmar.
First, I believe the combat arts of Thailand, Cambodia, Laos, Vietnam, and Burma all had a common root in the distant past — probably when their forefathers were inhabiting various regions as minority groups in Yunnan. We are talking about the time of Gautama, the Buddha, i.e. before B.C. 544 or 2,500 years from our time. Fusion and cross-pollination of the tribal cutlures had been taking place since time immemorial, through war and inter-marriage. We only have different names such as Muaythai, Kun Khmer or Myanmar Let Whyat and Tu Luyen Vo Tu Do ( free-style boxing art ) because of political preference – often dictated by nationalism – and/or regional cultural and conceptual / linguistic inclinations. These elements, over the face of changing history, have influenced the arts in diffrenent ways and to varying extents. Indochina, in the most ancient times, was known as Suvannabhumi ( the Golden Land ), and tribes of settlers and migrants, from China as well as the oceanic islands, were roaming freely with no recognizable boundaries. The ancient Yue ( Southern Barbarians in Chinese History ) , and the Wa people were there, preceded by the more indigenous or native Negroid and primitive Paleo-Caucasoid groups. Ancestors of the Thai, Khmer, and Mon-Burmans were all in Yunnan, around the region of Erhai Lake, as tribal confederates, and each, invariably, had been subject to Chines influence at divers times and to different degrees dependent on the extent of the Chinese rule over or interaction with the particular people. Tribes of the primeval Shan-Tai, for example, goes way back, to the age of Emperor Yaodi (B.C.2282). They had been on the move since, progressively sidelined as the power game in the cental mainland changed its political complexion.
The ancient Shan-Tai groups were migrating into the Indochina peninsula as early as B.C.425. The Cambodians, on the other hand, founded Funan ( A.D.85 ), which was annexed by Chenla in A.D.657. Chenla was a state of mixed races. The primary ones being Cambodians, Indonesian, and the ancient Shan-Tais. In A.D. 707 Chenla split up with the southern part ( Water ) dominated by the Khmers, and the upper ( Land ), by the Shan-Tai-Lao groups. Chinese chroncles attest that Land Chenla, also known as Wen Shen ( Thai language Vieng Shan ), was a glamorous state, and its capital, as we can ascertain today, was Ubon Ratchathani, in northeastern Thailand. Chenla, as far as one can establish, was from the line of Funan, and founded by an Indian prince ( Ksatriya caste ), but constituted by Thai-Lao & Khmer tribes.
A unified Cambodia only emerged in A.D.902, after which the Great Empire of Angkor took over almost the whole of the Menam basin. It is public knowledge that before Siam was officially founded at Sukhothai, the Thai people had been living under Khmer rule, and also, after the fall of Angkor (A.D.1420), a century of Khmerization occurred in Siam. There can be little dispute that the best of Cambodian art and culture had not only continued to develop in the land of its conqueror, but things such as language, architecture, Court rituals, astrology, drama and dancing were received with great passion. It was so intense that the arts and religion of the two civilizations began to merge to a degree never so visibly before.
Noteworthy is the fact that, five centuries later, Cambodia, having lost in the traumatic dark age of the Khmer Rouge almost entirely her classical dancing tradition, managed to re-import the art from Thailand.
So, the question of who has stolen from whom, or who owes her art to whom ? is just too emotive — and perhaps complicated — a subject to resolve by martial art fans. Insofar as historical information is concerned, the points below maybe useful to all those endeavouring to determine the truth, or what came closest to it :
1) The Shan-Tai racial family had a history traceable to the dawn of Chinese civilization. The Cambodians, however, first appeared in around the Eastern Zhou dynasty ( after B.C.770 ) although as a people, they may be some 3,000 years old. The Mon people were in Indochina before the Tai migration and dominated over the other settler groups with the founding of Dvaravati in 500 A.D., and the Burmans, like the Tais, had been inhabiting southwestern China, before moving down to the Golden Land much later, in around the 6th century.
2) The Shan-Tai men were always a fighting race, with a long custom of assigning soldiers (warriors) to watch their village. These were men trained in fighting, with swords or fists.
3) A custom of martial contests at festivals, held to celebrate victory at war, alongside liberal drinking and ecstatic dancing, prevailed in the Kingdom of Ye Lang ( around 400 B.C. ) in Yunnan. It was the largest of the confederates of minority races, with the prime rivals being the Tai and the Yi ( karen ) groups within the state.
4) Indian fighting arts came into the Suvannabhumi region when traders, warrior princes ( Shakya ), and religious missions came east. The first city-state, Ta Gaung, in upper Myanmar, was founded in B.C.850 ( my reckoning is B.C.424 ) by a Shakya prince, Abhi Raza. The state became Tai centuries later. The word “muay” had its origin in the Sanskrit name, Malla, a fighting clan in northeastern India, which has been taken to mean pugilism or a professional wrestler – fighter.
5) Freestyle boxing as a tradition in Southeast Asia possibly took root first in the Korat plateau, during the Chenla period. It is now known to the Thais as the Upper Cambodia region, and the territory has produced many of the premier muaythai fighters in history. Conversely, Battambang, the best known place for its kickboxing culture in Cambodian, has been a Thai province for centuries until 1907. Van Shen ( capital of Land Chenla ), as the name implies, was Town of the Shans. One tribe, the Xang Khao (white elephant ), was recorded in a Chinese document dated 638 A.D. as ” men are, by custom, savage, and brave in combat.” Subsequently, it became the Lao city of Lanxang.
6) At the annual temple fair at Bakong, likely from A.D.889 onwards, boxing became a popular event. Was it Cambodian, or Shan ? Perhaps there was no distinction then.
7) Thailand’s muay tradition was already a known national heritage by the 50′s. The best of Boxe Libre ( in the 60′s ) were nowhere as potent as the the top Thais, due to difference in the industry’s economy on each side, and the comparative popularity in result. Sar Sary, the Cambodian legend, was kayo’d in R2 by Nilpad Lukthon of Thailand at Phnom Penh in 1958, and in March, 1974, at Bangkok’s Rajadamnern Stadium, a Thai vs. Khmer card concluded with 5 : 0 result. Amongst the defeated were the best of Cambodia, including Chea Sarak (148) ( who died a victim of the Khmer Rouge regime ),and Chhith Sarim (118), National Coach for Cambodia’s revived kickboxing in the past decade. I cannot see they could made a worthwhile comparison with the likes of Somdej Yontarakit, Apidej Sidhiran or Puth Lawlek.
Wrestling, presumably Hindu, was part of royal court entertainment in Siam until the 19th century, after which it has been Muay all the way. It was, based on the logic of evolution, eliminated and assimilated by the surviving art, which has been enriched in technological contents in that process. Sport muaythai, what we see today, is only the permissible part of Muay. The Muay Boran — red uniforms and yantra-marked vests — much talked about nowadays is actually Classical Muaythai ( Kadcheuak or bare-knuckled ), whereas real Muay Boran (Muai) is the amateur form of ancient boxing embodying forms and patterns of animals. They are still around, with grappling and finger/palm strikes, locks and throws, body drops and takedowns, in remote regions of Lao, Thailand (north) and Yunnan.
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Concerning the history of Muay Thai, when we solely base the history based on historic evidence: Muay Thai originated in Cambodia, and there is no doubt about it.
The first evidence of a South East Asian martial art being practiced, resembling Muay Thai, in South East Asia comes from the Khmer inscriptions. The first evidence comes from the 10th century, when a Hinduist regime has taken control over Angkor and divided the Khmer populations into elite communities, called 'Varna'. This was not the practice of caste system in India, where Varna has a negative connotation and was used to divide people into higher and lower castes. In Cambodia, belonging to a Varna meant being an elite member, as priests and members of Varna's were only able to intermarry within the respective Varna's.
For information, you need to go through the translation of the different ancient Cambodian inscriptions, which you can find at least from these Cambodian inscriptions: K. 257, and K.239S (there are more).
There was one Varna in Cambodia, called 'Varna Musti Yuddha', which means the "Clan of fist fighters". This Varna was located in Western-Cambodia, called Gamryan in the ancient inscriptions, which undoubteldy refers to the area of modern day Kamrieng in Battambang. In the ancient inscriptions, this area was defined as a country.
The Varna Musti Yuddha was a heavily respected Varna. There is an inscription telling of a fighter winning big plots of lands in Angkor, which was normally exclusively reserved for royalty and priests, but this champion was awarded big plots of lands in the capital for his accomplishment as a fighter. There is also an inscription telling of members of the Varna Musti Yuddha trading with other Varna's. These fighters were elite members of ancient Cambodian society, and the inscriptions show proof of the only and most ancient unarmed fighting circuit that was tied to the royal court. This is also the only evidence we have of an unarmed fighting system that was tied to royalty.
The time that the Varna's were introduced was a regime change that coincided with a vast expansion of Hinduist rule. In the tenth century, there are suddenly more inscriptions than ever with the Hinduist priesthood being expanded, and the introduction of elite commoners into Varnas. The fact that suddenly the people were divided into Varnas, of which some were highly important military Varnas, shows that there was a reorganisation of the military. The fact that they used the original Sanskrit term for the new fist fighting (Musti Yuddha) communities, illustrates that the Cambodian people were deliberately reorganized into new unarmed fighting clans, indicating that they had to bring in teachers from India to teach the people this art, and make them able to compete with each other for honor and prices, instead of having them fight wars with each other, as was common in the former regimes. It is no surprise that the word for teacher in South East Asian martial arts 'Khru' is derrived from the Sanskrit word 'Guru'.
The Varna Musti Yuddha disappeared, but there was one Varna which was kept active and closely tied to the Varna Musti Yuddha and the royalty: the Varna Sañjak. The Varna Sañjak were the personal bodyguards of the kings, and there were five statues of Varna Sañjak warriors who were deified into divine deities (Devas) by way of a Hinduist ritual. These warriors were the son (or son in law) of Jayavarman VII, who was the leader of the Varna Sañjak, and four loyal warriors who gave their lives to protect the king at the time. These five statues are now missing, but the stories of their death and heroism can be found in the inscriptions of the temple Banteay Chmar, together with images illustrating these events. The son of Jayavarman VII was named deified into Sri Indra Deva, and it is believed that he was the reincarnation of Indra, and the four loyal warriors were seen as the four heavenly kings (Indra and the four heavenly kings were seen as Devas who protect the heavens in Mahayana Buddhism, and who are Darma Palas; protectors of the Buddhist faith).
The Varna Sañjak were undoubtedly trained in Musti Yuddha, since the carvings of Banteay Chmar show the warriors using kicks and techniques resembling Muay Thai, together with primitive weapons, like sticks and spears. These images and inscriptions date from the 12th century.
The next piece of evidence comes from another temple of Angkor: it't the temple of Bayon. On the pillars we can find images of unarmed fighters using elbow-techniques. Interestingly, the pillars of temples are seen as the protectors of the temple, indicating that unarmed Buddhist fighters were seen as protectors of the temple.
The next piece of evidence comes from Myanmar. There is one temple depicting unarmed fighters competing under the eye of spectators and a judge. This was from a Mon Buddhist temple. The Mon who settled in Southern Myanmar are likely the result of mixed Khmer/Mon communities, who had invaded Myanmar during grand scale invasions that started from Thailand (in the time that Thai people had not yet massively migrated into thailand).
The first evidence of a South East Asian martial art being practiced, resembling Muay Thai, in South East Asia comes from the Khmer inscriptions. The first evidence comes from the 10th century, when a Hinduist regime has taken control over Angkor and divided the Khmer populations into elite communities, called 'Varna'. This was not the practice of caste system in India, where Varna has a negative connotation and was used to divide people into higher and lower castes. In Cambodia, belonging to a Varna meant being an elite member, as priests and members of Varna's were only able to intermarry within the respective Varna's.
For information, you need to go through the translation of the different ancient Cambodian inscriptions, which you can find at least from these Cambodian inscriptions: K. 257, and K.239S (there are more).
There was one Varna in Cambodia, called 'Varna Musti Yuddha', which means the "Clan of fist fighters". This Varna was located in Western-Cambodia, called Gamryan in the ancient inscriptions, which undoubteldy refers to the area of modern day Kamrieng in Battambang. In the ancient inscriptions, this area was defined as a country.
The Varna Musti Yuddha was a heavily respected Varna. There is an inscription telling of a fighter winning big plots of lands in Angkor, which was normally exclusively reserved for royalty and priests, but this champion was awarded big plots of lands in the capital for his accomplishment as a fighter. There is also an inscription telling of members of the Varna Musti Yuddha trading with other Varna's. These fighters were elite members of ancient Cambodian society, and the inscriptions show proof of the only and most ancient unarmed fighting circuit that was tied to the royal court. This is also the only evidence we have of an unarmed fighting system that was tied to royalty.
The time that the Varna's were introduced was a regime change that coincided with a vast expansion of Hinduist rule. In the tenth century, there are suddenly more inscriptions than ever with the Hinduist priesthood being expanded, and the introduction of elite commoners into Varnas. The fact that suddenly the people were divided into Varnas, of which some were highly important military Varnas, shows that there was a reorganisation of the military. The fact that they used the original Sanskrit term for the new fist fighting (Musti Yuddha) communities, illustrates that the Cambodian people were deliberately reorganized into new unarmed fighting clans, indicating that they had to bring in teachers from India to teach the people this art, and make them able to compete with each other for honor and prices, instead of having them fight wars with each other, as was common in the former regimes. It is no surprise that the word for teacher in South East Asian martial arts 'Khru' is derrived from the Sanskrit word 'Guru'.
The Varna Musti Yuddha disappeared, but there was one Varna which was kept active and closely tied to the Varna Musti Yuddha and the royalty: the Varna Sañjak. The Varna Sañjak were the personal bodyguards of the kings, and there were five statues of Varna Sañjak warriors who were deified into divine deities (Devas) by way of a Hinduist ritual. These warriors were the son (or son in law) of Jayavarman VII, who was the leader of the Varna Sañjak, and four loyal warriors who gave their lives to protect the king at the time. These five statues are now missing, but the stories of their death and heroism can be found in the inscriptions of the temple Banteay Chmar, together with images illustrating these events. The son of Jayavarman VII was named deified into Sri Indra Deva, and it is believed that he was the reincarnation of Indra, and the four loyal warriors were seen as the four heavenly kings (Indra and the four heavenly kings were seen as Devas who protect the heavens in Mahayana Buddhism, and who are Darma Palas; protectors of the Buddhist faith).
The Varna Sañjak were undoubtedly trained in Musti Yuddha, since the carvings of Banteay Chmar show the warriors using kicks and techniques resembling Muay Thai, together with primitive weapons, like sticks and spears. These images and inscriptions date from the 12th century.
The next piece of evidence comes from another temple of Angkor: it't the temple of Bayon. On the pillars we can find images of unarmed fighters using elbow-techniques. Interestingly, the pillars of temples are seen as the protectors of the temple, indicating that unarmed Buddhist fighters were seen as protectors of the temple.
The next piece of evidence comes from Myanmar. There is one temple depicting unarmed fighters competing under the eye of spectators and a judge. This was from a Mon Buddhist temple. The Mon who settled in Southern Myanmar are likely the result of mixed Khmer/Mon communities, who had invaded Myanmar during grand scale invasions that started from Thailand (in the time that Thai people had not yet massively migrated into thailand).
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I like SEAhistory's desire to ground his comments in physical evidence, because surely that evidence, and the time the evidence originated, must be accounted for in any more speculative telling, including the long, long ago KKSlyder talks of. (Kudos to both of you! Though note Chandler recalls layers and layers of pot sherds from a Battambang cave to show Cambodians existed there 5000 years ago, rather than immigrated from some South Yunnan cultural origin point some thousands of years later.)
However, KKSlyder seems right on the money to suggest the very distant origins of SEA martial arts will likely never be clear enough for those who feel most passionate about them today. Physical evidence can prove someones favourite history story is false, but it isn't likely to dissuade the enthusiast from saying, "Yeah, that did happen there a LONG time ago, but I think I know who taught them!"
Finding a 4,000 year old tomb of a boxer king, fused finger bone breaks and all, would take the story back a chunk further. Clearly we need more boxing passionate archaeologists!
However, KKSlyder seems right on the money to suggest the very distant origins of SEA martial arts will likely never be clear enough for those who feel most passionate about them today. Physical evidence can prove someones favourite history story is false, but it isn't likely to dissuade the enthusiast from saying, "Yeah, that did happen there a LONG time ago, but I think I know who taught them!"
Finding a 4,000 year old tomb of a boxer king, fused finger bone breaks and all, would take the story back a chunk further. Clearly we need more boxing passionate archaeologists!
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Guest9999 wrote: ↑Sat Dec 19, 2020 7:04 amI like SEAhistory's desire to ground his comments in physical evidence, because surely that evidence, and the time the evidence originated, must be accounted for in any more speculative telling, including the long, long ago KKSlyder talks of. (Kudos to both of you! Though note Chandler recalls layers and layers of pot sherds from a Battambang cave to show Cambodians existed there 5000 years ago, rather than immigrated from some South Yunnan cultural origin point some thousands of years later.)
However, KKSlyder seems right on the money to suggest the very distant origins of SEA martial arts will likely never be clear enough for those who feel most passionate about them today. Physical evidence can prove someones favourite history story is false, but it isn't likely to dissuade the enthusiast from saying, "Yeah, that did happen there a LONG time ago, but I think I know who taught them!"
Finding a 4,000 year old tomb of a boxer king, fused finger bone breaks and all, would take the story back a chunk further. Clearly we need more boxing passionate archaeologists!
That Cambodian people are ancient, is proven by genetic research. The oldest remains found in Cambodia are from the 3rd century BC, and these people were Austro-Melanesian (people related to Melanesian people of the Melanesian islands, Papuan people of New Guinea, and Aboriginals of Australia) mixed with Austro-Asiatic. The Austro-Melanesian people were the first people to leave Africa and populate Asia. They probably arrived in South-East Asia tens of thousands of years ago. These people were buried with long swords and animal remains, between Battambang and Angkor.
The people of Funan were described by the Chinese as black skinned, tattooed, with curly hair. Ancient remains from centuries later from Eastern Cambodian also showed this ancient admixture with increasingly Austro-Asiatic influence. These people were the ancestors of the most ancient cultural and ethnic group that Cambodia knows today; the Khmer Douam (original Khmers), known in English as the Pearic people. The Pearic people speak an Austro-Asiatic language that is so ancient, that linguist researchers were unable to decipher how far back their language goes, due to the ancient admixture.
It is said that the Pearic people still show this ancient admixture with Austro-Melanesian. I added two pictures of Pearic people who have remained isolated from the commoner Khmer population. You can judge for yourself.
The ancient Hinduist culture was brought to Cambodia by way of the kingdom of Champa, and then spread to Cambodia. Buddhism was brought by the mainland by way of the Mon people from Thailand, who founded the kingdom of Dvaravati. The inscriptions of Cambodia show a lot of information about the culture and religion, but there is no trace of any martial art anywhere in Champa, Dvaravati, or Cambodia.
When the king Jayavarman V became the new king, he was only ten years old. This was in the tenth century. During his early years, the court officials dominated the royal politics. He studied under a very knowledgeable teacher Yajnavaraha, a grandson of King Harshavarman I. His reign marked the beginning of a completely new society, of which the division of the population into elite communities called Varna were the result. This is also the first piece of evidence we have of a martial art in South East Asia. Since the martial art was heavily tied to Hinduism, according to the inscriptions, we can assume it was founded by Hinduist rule. Since it seems as a new invention with new traditions, we can assume it was adopted from India, as it was common for Indian priests to come to Cambodia and share their knowledge. This is supported by the fact that the art was named Musti Yuddha, which is the original Sanskrit name for the fighting style, which history in India is very obscure.
In India, we only know the name from a religious Hinduist scripture, called the Mahabharat. In it, there is a story of two princes who compete in different disciplines, which also included Musti yuddha. However, there is no evidence that it was widely practiced by Indian people or that there was a competition. In Angkor in the tenth century, we know from the inscriptions that there was a competition, and that one fighter won big plots of land in the capital, which normally was only reserved for priests and royalty.
From the carvings of certain temples, we see images of Khmer soldiers using kicks, elbows, and punches, which is very rare to be known to be used by warriors. When Hinduism was supplanted by Buddhism, it seems that the art was practiced by Buddhist guardians of temples, as the BUddhist Bayon temple built by Jayavarman VII (who made Cambodia Mahayana Buddhist) shows pillars with unarmed fighting people.
Muay Thai has very strong Hinduist roots, although it has become a Buddhist martial art. The Hinduist roots are so strong, that it is unthinkable that it originated somewhere else than Cambodia. In Muay Thai, you can also find many terms which are undoubtedly are Khmer in origin. I give here one example: Ram Muay (the music to which the Muay Thai fighters dance) is 100% Cambodian, since it is still used in Cambodia today for a dance competition. In modern Khmer, it is written រាំមួយ (Rom Muoy), while in Thai, it is written รำมวย (Ram Muay). There are many more examples.
When king Naresuan conquered Cambodia, he added many Khmer soldiers to his armies. According to the scriptures, he placed Cambodian people around many different places in Thailand. Everywhere which is the cradle of Muay Thai, like North East Thailand (Isaan), Southern Thailand, and Northern Thailand, there are very strong traces of khmer settlements, Khmer language, Khmer temples, and Khmer culture. However, the history of Khmer people in Thailand has been lost due to nationalistic campaigns to rewrite Thai history and create a united Thai ethnicity, in which Khmer ethnicity almost has been completely wiped from the Thai collective memory. A very good paper discussing this subject is called: "Thailand's Khmer as 'invisible minority': Language, ethnicity and cultural politics in north-eastern Thailand."
Interestingly, the Khmer spirit is still very strongly represented in Thailand. For example, in Buriram province, there is the famous Muay Thai gym called Kiatmoo9 gym (named after the location of the gym). This gym is unique for several reasons. Firstly, all the fighters from the gym are of Khmer ethnicity and speak the Thai Khmer dialect of Eastern Thailand (called Surin Khmer). These fighters have been among the best champions of Thailand, with famous fighters like Singdam and Superlek. Also, there is Petchpanomrung, who is the current kickboxing world champion who has been almost unbeatable. This gym, which is the only gym who only adopt local fighters from the local community has been awarded with the 'gym of the year award', which is a highly prestigious award normally awarded to big famous gyms that buy up all the most talented fighters from other smaller gyms.
There are numerous populations in Thailand who have a recoleciotn of their ancient Khmer roots. An xample are the Khorat Thai people, who remember that their ancestors married with the Khmer women and gave rise to the Khorat Thai ethnic group. There are many communities in Thailand with Khmer roots, especially from the regions where Muay Thai was practiced from most early times (18th/19th century).
It is sad that the history of Khmer people, and the history in relation to Muay Thai in Thailand has become so obscure..
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Interesting post what I'm reading. I'm always curious on the Cambodian martial art and I took interest. I run a instagram page called Kunkhmer_enthusiast that dedicated in supporting and showing love towards Cambodian martial art. One of the commenter told me that most of the twai kru are thai modified twai kru which started by the Cambodian Youth Movement 157. So does this mean that the Khmer Twai kru nowaday doesn't exist or gotten lost but modified? Please shed me some light because I would love to understand.
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It's very difficult to pinpoint the exact origin of traditions in regards to Muay Thai. That the art originated in Cambodia is very clear. However, in regards to what traditions were in place before it became popularized in Thailand we can only speculate.kke802 wrote: ↑Sat Jan 02, 2021 6:07 amInteresting post what I'm reading. I'm always curious on the Cambodian martial art and I took interest. I run a instagram page called Kunkhmer_enthusiast that dedicated in supporting and showing love towards Cambodian martial art. One of the commenter told me that most of the twai kru are thai modified twai kru which started by the Cambodian Youth Movement 157. So does this mean that the Khmer Twai kru nowaday doesn't exist or gotten lost but modified? Please shed me some light because I would love to understand.
Since Ayutthaya was Khmer in origin, according to the evidence of the 15th century ("THE 2/K.125 FRAGMENT, A LOST CHRONICLE OF AYUTTHAYA"), we can assume that most of the Ayutthayan culture was Khmer in origin, as was royal dance, royal title, use of inscriptions, etcetera. This would definitely also be the case for the Wai Khru, but it's also possible that it disappeared in Cambodia, was continued in Thailand, and by cultural diffusion was spread to Thailand again, which was also the case for royal ballet.
Unfortunately, there is too much obscurity in regards to the Thai and Cambodian history to make any definite claims about how all Khmer traditions were developed. The only thing we can be sure of, is that all the Ayutthayan traditions originated in Angkor/Cambodia, and were spread to Ayutthaya and to the rest of Thailand. However, before Ayutthaya, the kingdom of Dvaravati (Mon kingdom) was already 'Khmerized' until the 15th century.
SEAhistory wrote: ↑Sun Jan 03, 2021 3:29 amIt's very difficult to pinpoint the exact origin of traditions in regards to Muay Thai. That the art originated in Cambodia is very clear. However, in regards to what traditions were in place before it became popularized in Thailand we can only speculate.kke802 wrote: ↑Sat Jan 02, 2021 6:07 amInteresting post what I'm reading. I'm always curious on the Cambodian martial art and I took interest. I run a instagram page called Kunkhmer_enthusiast that dedicated in supporting and showing love towards Cambodian martial art. One of the commenter told me that most of the twai kru are thai modified twai kru which started by the Cambodian Youth Movement 157. So does this mean that the Khmer Twai kru nowaday doesn't exist or gotten lost but modified? Please shed me some light because I would love to understand.
Since Ayutthaya was Khmer in origin, according to the evidence of the 15th century ("THE 2/K.125 FRAGMENT, A LOST CHRONICLE OF AYUTTHAYA"), we can assume that most of the Ayutthayan culture was Khmer in origin, as was royal dance, royal title, use of inscriptions, etcetera. This would definitely also be the case for the Wai Khru, but it's also possible that it disappeared in Cambodia, was continued in Thailand, and by cultural diffusion was spread to Thailand again, which was also the case for royal ballet.
Unfortunately, there is too much obscurity in regards to the Thai and Cambodian history to make any definite claims about how all Khmer traditions were developed. The only thing we can be sure of, is that all the Ayutthayan traditions originated in Angkor/Cambodia, and were spread to Ayutthaya and to the rest of Thailand. However, before Ayutthaya, the kingdom of Dvaravati (Mon kingdom) was already 'Khmerized' until the 15th century.
I see, So the question is how did they started changing the written language? Was the change in language resulted because of a certain royal house took over the throne cause I notice the Ayutthayan have the House Of U-thong and the House Of Suphannaphum and most of their stories are internal political struggle that started around the 1360's.
This boxing coach talks about how he end up meeting a Kun khmer teacher in Buriram, Thailand back in the day.
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[/quote]
I see, So the question is how did they started changing the written language? Was the change in language resulted because of a certain royal house took over the throne cause I notice the Ayutthayan have the House Of U-thong and the House Of Suphannaphum and most of their stories are internal political struggle that started around the 1360's.
[/quote]
It's wise to ignore the national stories, and just purely look at the historic evidence. One professor who studied this matter intensively is professor Vickery, and I base my findings on his studies.
The origin of Thailand is the origin of Sukhothai. Sukhothai became independent because of the rebellion against Khmer rule, which was won by two Thai friends. In the mid-13th century, the Tai tribes led by Si Indradit rebelled against the Khmer governor at Sukhodaya and established Sukhothai as an independent Tai state and remained the center of Tai power until the end of the fourteenth century. Sri Indradit was awarded with a Khmer royal sword (sword of Indra) and awarded with a royal title. Sukhothai would then spread his newfound (Thai) power southward, and create more Thai settlements.
If you would read the fragment of the Royal Chronicle of which I shared the title in my previous post, you could read how Ayutthaya was already very active in conquering other parts of Thailand, besides conquering Cambodia. Although Khmer in origin, and although the culture of the elites was still very much Khmer, Ayutthaya already became heavily influenced by Thai culture which spread from Sukhothai southward. So Ayutthaya became increasingly Thai in culture from the times that Ayutthaya became the new superpower in Thailand.
It's possible to exactly pinpoint the time that Thai became the official language, but it seems that Thai was already used in the 15th century by the royalists of Ayutthata, as Ayutthaya had written a Khmer inscription that refers to the conquest of Angkor in Khmer language, which also had a Thai translation of this Khmer text added to the Khmer inscription, making it the oldest Thai inscription that we know today of Ayutthaya. It shows that the royalty of Ayutthaya was Khmer/Sukhothai mixed.
It seems that Cambodia in the 15th century had lost much of its previous power, since the former king of Ayutthaya was exiled to Cambodia when he was usurped by the new king of Ayutthaya. The son of this king, named Yat, married into the Khmer Pearic population, and became the new king of Cambodia. The war between Ayutthaya and Cambodia in the 15th century was therefore a result of warfare between two fractions that originated from Ayutthaya, but which still were very much Khmer in culture. So it was a war between a new Ayutthayan/Khmer/Thai royal fraction based in Ayutthay, and an exiled Ayutthayan/Thai/Pearic Khmer fraction based in Cambodia. Yat also founded the city of Phnom Penh, which was named as Caturmukh (four faces in Sanskrit, a reference to Brahma; the four faced God).
The story of U-thong has no historic basis, and is purely a mythological legend. According to professor Vickery, the legend could have some association with a historic event, but it is quite possible that it was invented because of a Mon legend. There is no evidence to support that the legend really happened.
It would be possible to study the Thaiïzation of Thailand and see the exact development that lead to Thailand becoming increasingly Thai. From what I know, is that the reign of king Naresuan was the most important event that lead to a Thai state. Interestingly, Naresuan conquered Cambodia, and added all the Cambodian people, as they were warriors, to his armies. According to the ancient historical documents, he placed these Cambodian soldiers around Thailand in different settlements, and used them as elite soldiers and guardians of the temples. I personally believe this is the most important event of how Muay Thai was transported to Thailand, and became the military art for the commoner people.
I see, So the question is how did they started changing the written language? Was the change in language resulted because of a certain royal house took over the throne cause I notice the Ayutthayan have the House Of U-thong and the House Of Suphannaphum and most of their stories are internal political struggle that started around the 1360's.
[/quote]
It's wise to ignore the national stories, and just purely look at the historic evidence. One professor who studied this matter intensively is professor Vickery, and I base my findings on his studies.
The origin of Thailand is the origin of Sukhothai. Sukhothai became independent because of the rebellion against Khmer rule, which was won by two Thai friends. In the mid-13th century, the Tai tribes led by Si Indradit rebelled against the Khmer governor at Sukhodaya and established Sukhothai as an independent Tai state and remained the center of Tai power until the end of the fourteenth century. Sri Indradit was awarded with a Khmer royal sword (sword of Indra) and awarded with a royal title. Sukhothai would then spread his newfound (Thai) power southward, and create more Thai settlements.
If you would read the fragment of the Royal Chronicle of which I shared the title in my previous post, you could read how Ayutthaya was already very active in conquering other parts of Thailand, besides conquering Cambodia. Although Khmer in origin, and although the culture of the elites was still very much Khmer, Ayutthaya already became heavily influenced by Thai culture which spread from Sukhothai southward. So Ayutthaya became increasingly Thai in culture from the times that Ayutthaya became the new superpower in Thailand.
It's possible to exactly pinpoint the time that Thai became the official language, but it seems that Thai was already used in the 15th century by the royalists of Ayutthata, as Ayutthaya had written a Khmer inscription that refers to the conquest of Angkor in Khmer language, which also had a Thai translation of this Khmer text added to the Khmer inscription, making it the oldest Thai inscription that we know today of Ayutthaya. It shows that the royalty of Ayutthaya was Khmer/Sukhothai mixed.
It seems that Cambodia in the 15th century had lost much of its previous power, since the former king of Ayutthaya was exiled to Cambodia when he was usurped by the new king of Ayutthaya. The son of this king, named Yat, married into the Khmer Pearic population, and became the new king of Cambodia. The war between Ayutthaya and Cambodia in the 15th century was therefore a result of warfare between two fractions that originated from Ayutthaya, but which still were very much Khmer in culture. So it was a war between a new Ayutthayan/Khmer/Thai royal fraction based in Ayutthay, and an exiled Ayutthayan/Thai/Pearic Khmer fraction based in Cambodia. Yat also founded the city of Phnom Penh, which was named as Caturmukh (four faces in Sanskrit, a reference to Brahma; the four faced God).
The story of U-thong has no historic basis, and is purely a mythological legend. According to professor Vickery, the legend could have some association with a historic event, but it is quite possible that it was invented because of a Mon legend. There is no evidence to support that the legend really happened.
It would be possible to study the Thaiïzation of Thailand and see the exact development that lead to Thailand becoming increasingly Thai. From what I know, is that the reign of king Naresuan was the most important event that lead to a Thai state. Interestingly, Naresuan conquered Cambodia, and added all the Cambodian people, as they were warriors, to his armies. According to the ancient historical documents, he placed these Cambodian soldiers around Thailand in different settlements, and used them as elite soldiers and guardians of the temples. I personally believe this is the most important event of how Muay Thai was transported to Thailand, and became the military art for the commoner people.
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Hmm, unfortunately, I can not read it. Could you share again? I'd love to read it.
Buriram is the region where Khmer culture has become isolated from the rest of Thailand, and its Muay Thai culture is a continuation from the ancient culture. You call him a 'Kun Khmer' teacher, but the name 'Muay Thai' and the name 'Kun Khmer' are inventions from the 19th century. It is more appropriate to call him a 'South East Asian free-fighting' teacher, or a 'South East Asia unarmed fist fighting' teacher or something.
Interestingly, one of the best gyms of Thailand is from Buriram, of which I shared some info in my more previous posts. The name is Kiatmoo9 gym, where all the fighters are from the local community (Kiatmoo9 is the name of the community). These fighters speak Khmer, are ethnically Khmer, and this is the only gym in Thailand where all the fighters are from the local community. It is therefore extra special that this gym has produced one of the best fighters of Thailand, with many national champions coming from this gym. A few names are Singdam/Superlek/Petchpanomrung (kickboxing champion), and many more.
This gym has been awarded the prestigious award of 'gym of the year', which is a very big deal if you win this price in Thailand. This gym has won it multiple times! It shows that the Khmer spirit is still very much alive in Thailand in regards to Khmer culture.
Here are two short documentaries about the gym, if you are interested:
Kiatmoo9 gym
Kiatmoo9gym2
SEAhistory wrote: ↑Sun Jan 03, 2021 5:33 pmHmm, unfortunately, I can not read it. Could you share again? I'd love to read it.
Buriram is the region where Khmer culture has become isolated from the rest of Thailand, and its Muay Thai culture is a continuation from the ancient culture. You call him a 'Kun Khmer' teacher, but the name 'Muay Thai' and the name 'Kun Khmer' are inventions from the 19th century. It is more appropriate to call him a 'South East Asian free-fighting' teacher, or a 'South East Asia unarmed fist fighting' teacher or something.
Interestingly, one of the best gyms of Thailand is from Buriram, of which I shared some info in my more previous posts. The name is Kiatmoo9 gym, where all the fighters are from the local community (Kiatmoo9 is the name of the community). These fighters speak Khmer, are ethnically Khmer, and this is the only gym in Thailand where all the fighters are from the local community. It is therefore extra special that this gym has produced one of the best fighters of Thailand, with many national champions coming from this gym. A few names are Singdam/Superlek/Petchpanomrung (kickboxing champion), and many more.
This gym has been awarded the prestigious award of 'gym of the year', which is a very big deal if you win this price in Thailand. This gym has won it multiple times! It shows that the Khmer spirit is still very much alive in Thailand in regards to Khmer culture.
Here are two short documentaries about the gym, if you are interested:
Kiatmoo9 gym
Kiatmoo9gym2
I don't know If you understand "Khmer" in the video. What I posted is a video made by PNN which is cambodian news network and it talks about his story. Mr. Tep Sivutha is from Koh Kong but he wanted to fight in Thailand. So he ended up going to Buriram and found a boxing club. His teacher is Khmer-buriram but that teacher his father is originally from Battambang. This what I heard in the video. My Khmer isn't bad, since I'm some-what intermediate level but I can understand what he is saying in the video.
Here is a the full interview which is uncut and unedited and it is by a youtuber name PSN. None of his videos on his channel don't have english caption since it is all in Khmer.
https://youtu.be/nutebJ-qXq4
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kke802 wrote: ↑Sun Jan 03, 2021 11:26 pmSEAhistory wrote: ↑Sun Jan 03, 2021 5:33 pmHmm, unfortunately, I can not read it. Could you share again? I'd love to read it.
Buriram is the region where Khmer culture has become isolated from the rest of Thailand, and its Muay Thai culture is a continuation from the ancient culture. You call him a 'Kun Khmer' teacher, but the name 'Muay Thai' and the name 'Kun Khmer' are inventions from the 19th century. It is more appropriate to call him a 'South East Asian free-fighting' teacher, or a 'South East Asia unarmed fist fighting' teacher or something.
Interestingly, one of the best gyms of Thailand is from Buriram, of which I shared some info in my more previous posts. The name is Kiatmoo9 gym, where all the fighters are from the local community (Kiatmoo9 is the name of the community). These fighters speak Khmer, are ethnically Khmer, and this is the only gym in Thailand where all the fighters are from the local community. It is therefore extra special that this gym has produced one of the best fighters of Thailand, with many national champions coming from this gym. A few names are Singdam/Superlek/Petchpanomrung (kickboxing champion), and many more.
This gym has been awarded the prestigious award of 'gym of the year', which is a very big deal if you win this price in Thailand. This gym has won it multiple times! It shows that the Khmer spirit is still very much alive in Thailand in regards to Khmer culture.
Here are two short documentaries about the gym, if you are interested:
Kiatmoo9 gym
Kiatmoo9gym2
I don't know If you understand "Khmer" in the video. What I posted is a video made by PNN which is cambodian news network and it talks about his story. Mr. Tep Sivutha is from Koh Kong but he wanted to fight in Thailand. So he ended up going to Buriram and found a boxing club. His teacher is Khmer-buriram but that teacher his father is originally from Battambang. This what I heard in the video. My Khmer isn't bad, since I'm some-what intermediate level but I can understand what he is saying in the video.
Here is a the full interview which is uncut and unedited and it is by a youtuber name PSN. None of his videos on his channel don't have english caption since it is all in Khmer.
https://youtu.be/nutebJ-qXq4
Thanks a lot! That's interesting he learned Muay Thai in Thailand, and moved to Buriram to learn it. I guess the number one reason why Kun Khmer in Cambodia is still underdeveloped compared to Thailand is, firstly, the competition in Thailand is much more intense and has been for many centuries. Secondly, Thailand has culturally developed further because of economic reasons, and, thirdly, there hasn't been much cultural exchange between Thai people and Cambodian people because of the language barrier.
If more Khmer people would train in Thailand, they could benefit a lot and bring back a lot of knowledge back to Cambodia and teach it to the Khmer people. I guess that's exactly what this Khmer fighter did, and it's awesome to see he is training Khmer youngsters now in Cambodia with the knowledge he gained in Buriram.
I see the fighting level of Cambodia is increasing a lot the last decades, and exchange of language and culture in regards to Muay Thai would make the level of fighting only increase a lot more in countries which are a bit more underdeveloped compared to Thailand.
Thank you for sharing!
Like Mr.Sivuttha says in the video and I can quote on what he says...
"I'm from originally from Koh Kong but I didn't train in Phnom Penh. I was training in Jeeden Koh Kong but I want increase my training. So I went to Buriram and found a club. Buriram is where khmer live and they only speak khmer. My teacher is Khmer-Buriram, born and raised there but his father is originally from Battambang. The style I learn from him is Khmer style. That is what teacher told me directly." Then Sivuttha went on saying that "I was only for training in Buriram for 3 years. I was 19 years old in (2500 buddhist year) 1956. I went and fought around Thailand."
In the video he gave away the name of the fighters he fought in Thailand but he fought guys from Surin.
I hope that helps cause I can roughly translate on what he is saying.
"I'm from originally from Koh Kong but I didn't train in Phnom Penh. I was training in Jeeden Koh Kong but I want increase my training. So I went to Buriram and found a club. Buriram is where khmer live and they only speak khmer. My teacher is Khmer-Buriram, born and raised there but his father is originally from Battambang. The style I learn from him is Khmer style. That is what teacher told me directly." Then Sivuttha went on saying that "I was only for training in Buriram for 3 years. I was 19 years old in (2500 buddhist year) 1956. I went and fought around Thailand."
In the video he gave away the name of the fighters he fought in Thailand but he fought guys from Surin.
I hope that helps cause I can roughly translate on what he is saying.
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Thanks a lot! Very interesting!kke802 wrote: ↑Mon Jan 04, 2021 1:58 amLike Mr.Sivuttha says in the video and I can quote on what he says...
"I'm from originally from Koh Kong but I didn't train in Phnom Penh. I was training in Jeeden Koh Kong but I want increase my training. So I went to Buriram and found a club. Buriram is where khmer live and they only speak khmer. My teacher is Khmer-Buriram, born and raised there but his father is originally from Battambang. The style I learn from him is Khmer style. That is what teacher told me directly." Then Sivuttha went on saying that "I was only for training in Buriram for 3 years. I was 19 years old in (2500 buddhist year) 1956. I went and fought around Thailand."
In the video he gave away the name of the fighters he fought in Thailand but he fought guys from Surin.
I hope that helps cause I can roughly translate on what he is saying.
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