Cambodian boxing 1920 photos
Cambodian boxing 1920 photos
I seen this pictures around social media. I have to say it's pretty cool to see a rare photo. The photo was taken by French photographer Lucienne Delmas in Battambang, Cambodia in the 1920's and these photos are kept in at the Musée de l ' Homme in Paris, France.
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- Felgerkarb
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All the French flags are quite festive.
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Why are the gods such vicious cunts?
Where is the god of tits and wine?
Why are the gods such vicious cunts?
Where is the god of tits and wine?
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Very interesting!
In the Forum-post "Your thoughts and opinions on Muay Thai and Kbach Kun Khmer history" I explained that the first evidence of an unarmed fighting style in South East Asia comes from the Khmer inscriptions describing a fighting clan called the Varna Musti Yuddha, which was an elite community tied to the royal court. In the 10th century, clans of elite commoners were created and they were called Varna. This is not the same as the caste system of India, which divides the people also in Varna. In Cambodia a Varna was exclusively associated with the priests and elite people of Cambodia. A good paper explaining the difference between the Indian and Cambodian Varna's is the following study: "Varnas in Angkor and the Indian Caste System".
I forgot to mention that professor Michael Vickery discovered that an ancient Khmer inscription from Battambang shows clear signs of Pearic Khmer language, and it is well-known among scholars that Western Cambodia was inhabited by Pearic people, since they still lived in Western Cambodia in the 19th century, since they are described by both Mouhot and Baradat who travelled through Cambodia and reported on the people of Western Cambodia, describing that the Khmer people living there were still Pearic in culture and language. There are still some communities in Cambodia that identify as 'Poar', but their culture and language is rapidly becoming extinct. Most of the Pearic culture is supplanted by modern Khmer culture.
Now, what I forgot to mention was that the term 'Pearic' is derrived from the Khmer word 'Poar', which is derrived from the Sanskrit word 'Varna'. Not to mistake the name with 'colored', since the word 'color' is also derrived from the Sanskrit word 'Varna', but the name for the cultural group of Pearic people is different from the word for 'color', meaning that both names were derrived from the same Sanskrit term, but evolved into two different Khmer words, which are therefore very similar. Professor Vickery had discovered that the two words for the cultural group and the word for color are slightly different.
This means that the Pearic people who identify with the name 'Poar' are the descendants of the ancient Khmer people that made up the Varna Musti Yuddha and the other Varna's, and still use their ancient Sanskrit name to describe themselves. Battambang, as it still was known as Pearic territory in the 19th century, was named 'Gamryang' in the inscriptions of the 10th century, of which the modern place name Kamrieng is the modern name. The name 'Gamryang'. One part of Battambang was named 'Malen', according to the ancient inscriptions from the 7th century upward, which became known as 'Malyang' in the inscriptions from the 9th century upwards. This name was still in use in the 13th century, since it is used by the Chinese diplomat Zhou Dhaguan to describe the Western territory of Cambodia in his report, which was translated into the book: "A record of Cambodia; the land and its people".
It is therefore interesting to see that Battambang was still an epicenter of fighting still in the 20th century, when the Pearic people were mostly replaced by modern Khmer culture and language. Based on all this info, it were the Pearic people of Western Cambodia who invented the predecessor art of Muay Thai, which then was spread to Thailand, Myanmar, Laos, and Malaysia by way of the Khmer military.
We know that Thailand in the 15th century was very much Khmer in origin, as the royalty of Thailand in the 15th century used Khmer language, wrote Khmer inscriptions, and wrote a Royal Chronicle in the 15th century that described the conquest of Angkor in 1431. This document is called: "THE 2/K.125 FRAGMENT, A LOST CHRONICLE OF AYUTTHAYA". It shows that the Thai kingdom was Khmer in origin, and therefore it's logical that the fighting art was transported to Thai territory, which became increasingly Thai in the following centuries. The document also explains how the son of an exiled king of Ayutthaya became the king of Cambodia, and reconquered Cambodia around 1441 with help of the Pearic people from Western Cambodia.
In the Forum-post "Your thoughts and opinions on Muay Thai and Kbach Kun Khmer history" I explained that the first evidence of an unarmed fighting style in South East Asia comes from the Khmer inscriptions describing a fighting clan called the Varna Musti Yuddha, which was an elite community tied to the royal court. In the 10th century, clans of elite commoners were created and they were called Varna. This is not the same as the caste system of India, which divides the people also in Varna. In Cambodia a Varna was exclusively associated with the priests and elite people of Cambodia. A good paper explaining the difference between the Indian and Cambodian Varna's is the following study: "Varnas in Angkor and the Indian Caste System".
I forgot to mention that professor Michael Vickery discovered that an ancient Khmer inscription from Battambang shows clear signs of Pearic Khmer language, and it is well-known among scholars that Western Cambodia was inhabited by Pearic people, since they still lived in Western Cambodia in the 19th century, since they are described by both Mouhot and Baradat who travelled through Cambodia and reported on the people of Western Cambodia, describing that the Khmer people living there were still Pearic in culture and language. There are still some communities in Cambodia that identify as 'Poar', but their culture and language is rapidly becoming extinct. Most of the Pearic culture is supplanted by modern Khmer culture.
Now, what I forgot to mention was that the term 'Pearic' is derrived from the Khmer word 'Poar', which is derrived from the Sanskrit word 'Varna'. Not to mistake the name with 'colored', since the word 'color' is also derrived from the Sanskrit word 'Varna', but the name for the cultural group of Pearic people is different from the word for 'color', meaning that both names were derrived from the same Sanskrit term, but evolved into two different Khmer words, which are therefore very similar. Professor Vickery had discovered that the two words for the cultural group and the word for color are slightly different.
This means that the Pearic people who identify with the name 'Poar' are the descendants of the ancient Khmer people that made up the Varna Musti Yuddha and the other Varna's, and still use their ancient Sanskrit name to describe themselves. Battambang, as it still was known as Pearic territory in the 19th century, was named 'Gamryang' in the inscriptions of the 10th century, of which the modern place name Kamrieng is the modern name. The name 'Gamryang'. One part of Battambang was named 'Malen', according to the ancient inscriptions from the 7th century upward, which became known as 'Malyang' in the inscriptions from the 9th century upwards. This name was still in use in the 13th century, since it is used by the Chinese diplomat Zhou Dhaguan to describe the Western territory of Cambodia in his report, which was translated into the book: "A record of Cambodia; the land and its people".
It is therefore interesting to see that Battambang was still an epicenter of fighting still in the 20th century, when the Pearic people were mostly replaced by modern Khmer culture and language. Based on all this info, it were the Pearic people of Western Cambodia who invented the predecessor art of Muay Thai, which then was spread to Thailand, Myanmar, Laos, and Malaysia by way of the Khmer military.
We know that Thailand in the 15th century was very much Khmer in origin, as the royalty of Thailand in the 15th century used Khmer language, wrote Khmer inscriptions, and wrote a Royal Chronicle in the 15th century that described the conquest of Angkor in 1431. This document is called: "THE 2/K.125 FRAGMENT, A LOST CHRONICLE OF AYUTTHAYA". It shows that the Thai kingdom was Khmer in origin, and therefore it's logical that the fighting art was transported to Thai territory, which became increasingly Thai in the following centuries. The document also explains how the son of an exiled king of Ayutthaya became the king of Cambodia, and reconquered Cambodia around 1441 with help of the Pearic people from Western Cambodia.
So what do think about this piece of information. I saw this on a social media page. I think this is pretty good piece.SEAhistory wrote: ↑Sun Jan 03, 2021 3:20 amVery interesting!
In the Forum-post "Your thoughts and opinions on Muay Thai and Kbach Kun Khmer history" I explained that the first evidence of an unarmed fighting style in South East Asia comes from the Khmer inscriptions describing a fighting clan called the Varna Musti Yuddha, which was an elite community tied to the royal court. In the 10th century, clans of elite commoners were created and they were called Varna. This is not the same as the caste system of India, which divides the people also in Varna. In Cambodia a Varna was exclusively associated with the priests and elite people of Cambodia. A good paper explaining the difference between the Indian and Cambodian Varna's is the following study: "Varnas in Angkor and the Indian Caste System".
I forgot to mention that professor Michael Vickery discovered that an ancient Khmer inscription from Battambang shows clear signs of Pearic Khmer language, and it is well-known among scholars that Western Cambodia was inhabited by Pearic people, since they still lived in Western Cambodia in the 19th century, since they are described by both Mouhot and Baradat who travelled through Cambodia and reported on the people of Western Cambodia, describing that the Khmer people living there were still Pearic in culture and language. There are still some communities in Cambodia that identify as 'Poar', but their culture and language is rapidly becoming extinct. Most of the Pearic culture is supplanted by modern Khmer culture.
Now, what I forgot to mention was that the term 'Pearic' is derrived from the Khmer word 'Poar', which is derrived from the Sanskrit word 'Varna'. Not to mistake the name with 'colored', since the word 'color' is also derrived from the Sanskrit word 'Varna', but the name for the cultural group of Pearic people is different from the word for 'color', meaning that both names were derrived from the same Sanskrit term, but evolved into two different Khmer words, which are therefore very similar. Professor Vickery had discovered that the two words for the cultural group and the word for color are slightly different.
This means that the Pearic people who identify with the name 'Poar' are the descendants of the ancient Khmer people that made up the Varna Musti Yuddha and the other Varna's, and still use their ancient Sanskrit name to describe themselves. Battambang, as it still was known as Pearic territory in the 19th century, was named 'Gamryang' in the inscriptions of the 10th century, of which the modern place name Kamrieng is the modern name. The name 'Gamryang'. One part of Battambang was named 'Malen', according to the ancient inscriptions from the 7th century upward, which became known as 'Malyang' in the inscriptions from the 9th century upwards. This name was still in use in the 13th century, since it is used by the Chinese diplomat Zhou Dhaguan to describe the Western territory of Cambodia in his report, which was translated into the book: "A record of Cambodia; the land and its people".
It is therefore interesting to see that Battambang was still an epicenter of fighting still in the 20th century, when the Pearic people were mostly replaced by modern Khmer culture and language. Based on all this info, it were the Pearic people of Western Cambodia who invented the predecessor art of Muay Thai, which then was spread to Thailand, Myanmar, Laos, and Malaysia by way of the Khmer military.
We know that Thailand in the 15th century was very much Khmer in origin, as the royalty of Thailand in the 15th century used Khmer language, wrote Khmer inscriptions, and wrote a Royal Chronicle in the 15th century that described the conquest of Angkor in 1431. This document is called: "THE 2/K.125 FRAGMENT, A LOST CHRONICLE OF AYUTTHAYA". It shows that the Thai kingdom was Khmer in origin, and therefore it's logical that the fighting art was transported to Thai territory, which became increasingly Thai in the following centuries. The document also explains how the son of an exiled king of Ayutthaya became the king of Cambodia, and reconquered Cambodia around 1441 with help of the Pearic people from Western Cambodia.
There was a royal code of conduct, reserved exclusively for Senapati
(Greats Generals) Raja (Kings) and Yuvaraja (Princes), this form of politeness and postures can be widely observed today in Pradal Serey, Muay Thai as well as Muay Lao . The Traditional war dance performed by the boxers is intended to honor the King, the Buddha as well as the Sangha referring to the 3 jewels of Therevada Buddhism according to the Thai tradition whose greatest boxer finds their origin in the Isan region.
But this form of posture had been widely practiced from the Chenla era until the Angkorian period. It was performed during Royal ceremonies in order to honor the Deva raja (King of kings) this form of posture was different from that applied in the ancient Indian dynasties such as the Chalukya and Chola. Whose custom was to put both knees on the ground with one hand in front of the heart, different from the royal Khmer posture.
It was peculiar to the Clan of the Kamboja dynasties, to kneel with the knees attendant, one knee on the ground with the other foot on the ground while crossing both arms in order to greet the King of Kings
Chinese visitor Yi jing tells us how the royal ceremonies took place during the Chenla era of the Khmer king Isanvarman in the city of Isanapura which is the present day Isan region.
This is a extract of his testify ;
« This prince (Isana) makes his residence in the city of I-she-na (Isanapura), which contains more than twenty thousand families. In the middle of the city is a great hall where the king gives audience and holds court. The kingdom included thirty other cities, each populated by several thousands of families, and each ruled by a governor; the titles of state officials are the same as in Lin-Yi (Prey-Nokor) » (ISSA: The Dismemberment of Funan: P, 74)
« Every three days the king proceeds solemnly to the audience hall and sits on a couch made of five kinds of aromatic wood and decorated with seven precious things. About the couch there rises a pavilion hung with magnificent fabrics; the columns are of veined wood and the walls of ivory strewn with flowers of gold. Together this couch and this pavilion form a sort of little palace, at the back of which is suspended, as in Chih-Tu, a disk with gold rays in the form of flames. A golden incense-burner, held by two men, is placed in front. The king wears a dawn-red sash of Ki-Pei cotton that falls to his feet. He covers his head with a cap laden with gold and precious stones, with pendants of pearls. On his feet are leather, or sometimes "ory, sandals; in his ears, pendants of gold. His robe is always made of a very fine white fabric called pe-ti. When he appears bareheaded, one does not see precious stones in his hair. « (ISSA: The Dismemberment of Funan: P, 74)
« The dress of the great officials is very similar to that of the king. These great officials or ministers are five in number. The first has the title ku-lo-yu. The titles of the four others, in order of the rank they occupy, are hsiang-kao-ping, po-ho-to-ling, she-ma-ling and jan-lo-lou. The lesser officials are considerable. Those who appear before the king touch the ground in front of them three times at the footsteps of the throne. If the king calls them and commands them to show their rank, they kneeling attendants one kneel on the ground and holding their crossed hands on their shoulders. Then they go and sit in a circle around the king to deliberate on the affairs of the kingdom. When the session is finished, they kneeling attendants again prostrate themselves, and retire. More than a thousand guards dressed in armor and armed with lances are ranged at the foot of the steps of the throne, in the palace halls, at the doors, and at the peristyle. »
The traditional dance transcribes mainly gestures by honoring the forms of Hindu deities, by honoring Hanuman, Rama, Ganesh, Garuda, Nagā even Makara all of this of course in the eyes and in the praise of the King of Kings.
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[/quote]
So what do think about this piece of information. I saw this on a social media page. I think this is pretty good piece.
There was a royal code of conduct, reserved exclusively for Senapati
(Greats Generals) Raja (Kings) and Yuvaraja (Princes), this form of politeness and postures can be widely observed today in Pradal Serey, Muay Thai as well as Muay Lao . The Traditional war dance performed by the boxers is intended to honor the King, the Buddha as well as the Sangha referring to the 3 jewels of Therevada Buddhism according to the Thai tradition whose greatest boxer finds their origin in the Isan region.
But this form of posture had been widely practiced from the Chenla era until the Angkorian period. It was performed during Royal ceremonies in order to honor the Deva raja (King of kings) this form of posture was different from that applied in the ancient Indian dynasties such as the Chalukya and Chola. Whose custom was to put both knees on the ground with one hand in front of the heart, different from the royal Khmer posture.
It was peculiar to the Clan of the Kamboja dynasties, to kneel with the knees attendant, one knee on the ground with the other foot on the ground while crossing both arms in order to greet the King of Kings
Chinese visitor Yi jing tells us how the royal ceremonies took place during the Chenla era of the Khmer king Isanvarman in the city of Isanapura which is the present day Isan region.
This is a extract of his testify ;
« This prince (Isana) makes his residence in the city of I-she-na (Isanapura), which contains more than twenty thousand families. In the middle of the city is a great hall where the king gives audience and holds court. The kingdom included thirty other cities, each populated by several thousands of families, and each ruled by a governor; the titles of state officials are the same as in Lin-Yi (Prey-Nokor) » (ISSA: The Dismemberment of Funan: P, 74)
« Every three days the king proceeds solemnly to the audience hall and sits on a couch made of five kinds of aromatic wood and decorated with seven precious things. About the couch there rises a pavilion hung with magnificent fabrics; the columns are of veined wood and the walls of ivory strewn with flowers of gold. Together this couch and this pavilion form a sort of little palace, at the back of which is suspended, as in Chih-Tu, a disk with gold rays in the form of flames. A golden incense-burner, held by two men, is placed in front. The king wears a dawn-red sash of Ki-Pei cotton that falls to his feet. He covers his head with a cap laden with gold and precious stones, with pendants of pearls. On his feet are leather, or sometimes "ory, sandals; in his ears, pendants of gold. His robe is always made of a very fine white fabric called pe-ti. When he appears bareheaded, one does not see precious stones in his hair. « (ISSA: The Dismemberment of Funan: P, 74)
« The dress of the great officials is very similar to that of the king. These great officials or ministers are five in number. The first has the title ku-lo-yu. The titles of the four others, in order of the rank they occupy, are hsiang-kao-ping, po-ho-to-ling, she-ma-ling and jan-lo-lou. The lesser officials are considerable. Those who appear before the king touch the ground in front of them three times at the footsteps of the throne. If the king calls them and commands them to show their rank, they kneeling attendants one kneel on the ground and holding their crossed hands on their shoulders. Then they go and sit in a circle around the king to deliberate on the affairs of the kingdom. When the session is finished, they kneeling attendants again prostrate themselves, and retire. More than a thousand guards dressed in armor and armed with lances are ranged at the foot of the steps of the throne, in the palace halls, at the doors, and at the peristyle. »
The traditional dance transcribes mainly gestures by honoring the forms of Hindu deities, by honoring Hanuman, Rama, Ganesh, Garuda, Nagā even Makara all of this of course in the eyes and in the praise of the King of Kings.
[/quote]
To be honest, this information comes from ancient Cambodia before the tenth century, and Cambodian people use this kind of information to connect it with Muay Thai/Kun Khmer, to make it appear more ancient.
As surely the culture of Muay Thai can be traced back to royal ceremonies from many centuries before, it is futile to use these kinds of descriptions of royal ceremonies and linking them with Muay Thai/Kun Khmer in modern days.
The only thing that this kind of information proves, is the godlike status of ancient Cambodian kings, and the importance of certain traditions, rituals, and ceremonies to honor these kings. The only thing I can say about this kind of information in regards to Muay Thai, is that also spiritual rituals, spiritual ceremonies, and respect to authority are still very important in Muay Thai/Kun Khmer today.
I'm currently investigating the modern development of Muay Thai in Thailand in the 18th century, and the information I have so far is that the Khmer populations in Thailand in the 18th century were the elite Buddhist clans that were important for the Thai military. All the Muay Thai rituals are undoubtedly brought from Cambodia to Thailand, and then continued and developed in Thailand.
It is clear that many of these rituals developed isolated in Thailand and gave rise to a more sophiticated form of South East Asian unarmed fighting in Thailand, from which Muay Thai was descended. An example of this is the 'Mongkong'. This headband is only found in Thailand, but not in the fighting systems of other countries. Also it seems that Sak Yant was developed by the Khmer communities in Thailand, and then spread to Cambodia, Laos, and Myanmar, together with South East Asian unarmed fighting. However, there are historical clues that primitive forms of tattooing were already practiced in Cambodia, but only on a very small scale. The Thai people of Myanmar and Northern Thailand had much more sophiticated forms of tattooing when they migrated into Myanmar and Thailand, and gave rise to a new form of tattooing tied to Hinduist/Buddhist deities with Khmer/Pali/Sanskrit langauge. From the historical evidence of the 19th centuries from colonial reports, Sak Yant was imported from the Khmer communities in Thailand a few generation before the 19th century.
As Thailand and Cambodia were cultural/ethnic melting pots of Khmer/Thai/Lao/Kuy/Mon/Karen/Malay/Cham/Burmese/etc., there is a lot of cultural diffusion when it comes to ancient culture. In my opinion, to link ancient information about the ancient Cambodian royal court, like the information you shared in your post, with Muay Thai, is only very confusing.
It seems Cambodian people link this information in the wish to showcase that ancient royal Cambodian culture is linked to modern South East Asian unarmed fighting. They don't need to do that, because it is the information that I have shared through all my previous posts that already showcase that South East Asian unarmed fighting is undoubtedly Khmer in origin, and gave rise to Kun Khmer/Muay Thai/Muay Lao/Pradal Serey/Tomoi by way of the elite warrior-culture that was spread from Cambodia to the other South East Asian countries by way of migrating Khmer communities.
So what do think about this piece of information. I saw this on a social media page. I think this is pretty good piece.
There was a royal code of conduct, reserved exclusively for Senapati
(Greats Generals) Raja (Kings) and Yuvaraja (Princes), this form of politeness and postures can be widely observed today in Pradal Serey, Muay Thai as well as Muay Lao . The Traditional war dance performed by the boxers is intended to honor the King, the Buddha as well as the Sangha referring to the 3 jewels of Therevada Buddhism according to the Thai tradition whose greatest boxer finds their origin in the Isan region.
But this form of posture had been widely practiced from the Chenla era until the Angkorian period. It was performed during Royal ceremonies in order to honor the Deva raja (King of kings) this form of posture was different from that applied in the ancient Indian dynasties such as the Chalukya and Chola. Whose custom was to put both knees on the ground with one hand in front of the heart, different from the royal Khmer posture.
It was peculiar to the Clan of the Kamboja dynasties, to kneel with the knees attendant, one knee on the ground with the other foot on the ground while crossing both arms in order to greet the King of Kings
Chinese visitor Yi jing tells us how the royal ceremonies took place during the Chenla era of the Khmer king Isanvarman in the city of Isanapura which is the present day Isan region.
This is a extract of his testify ;
« This prince (Isana) makes his residence in the city of I-she-na (Isanapura), which contains more than twenty thousand families. In the middle of the city is a great hall where the king gives audience and holds court. The kingdom included thirty other cities, each populated by several thousands of families, and each ruled by a governor; the titles of state officials are the same as in Lin-Yi (Prey-Nokor) » (ISSA: The Dismemberment of Funan: P, 74)
« Every three days the king proceeds solemnly to the audience hall and sits on a couch made of five kinds of aromatic wood and decorated with seven precious things. About the couch there rises a pavilion hung with magnificent fabrics; the columns are of veined wood and the walls of ivory strewn with flowers of gold. Together this couch and this pavilion form a sort of little palace, at the back of which is suspended, as in Chih-Tu, a disk with gold rays in the form of flames. A golden incense-burner, held by two men, is placed in front. The king wears a dawn-red sash of Ki-Pei cotton that falls to his feet. He covers his head with a cap laden with gold and precious stones, with pendants of pearls. On his feet are leather, or sometimes "ory, sandals; in his ears, pendants of gold. His robe is always made of a very fine white fabric called pe-ti. When he appears bareheaded, one does not see precious stones in his hair. « (ISSA: The Dismemberment of Funan: P, 74)
« The dress of the great officials is very similar to that of the king. These great officials or ministers are five in number. The first has the title ku-lo-yu. The titles of the four others, in order of the rank they occupy, are hsiang-kao-ping, po-ho-to-ling, she-ma-ling and jan-lo-lou. The lesser officials are considerable. Those who appear before the king touch the ground in front of them three times at the footsteps of the throne. If the king calls them and commands them to show their rank, they kneeling attendants one kneel on the ground and holding their crossed hands on their shoulders. Then they go and sit in a circle around the king to deliberate on the affairs of the kingdom. When the session is finished, they kneeling attendants again prostrate themselves, and retire. More than a thousand guards dressed in armor and armed with lances are ranged at the foot of the steps of the throne, in the palace halls, at the doors, and at the peristyle. »
The traditional dance transcribes mainly gestures by honoring the forms of Hindu deities, by honoring Hanuman, Rama, Ganesh, Garuda, Nagā even Makara all of this of course in the eyes and in the praise of the King of Kings.
[/quote]
To be honest, this information comes from ancient Cambodia before the tenth century, and Cambodian people use this kind of information to connect it with Muay Thai/Kun Khmer, to make it appear more ancient.
As surely the culture of Muay Thai can be traced back to royal ceremonies from many centuries before, it is futile to use these kinds of descriptions of royal ceremonies and linking them with Muay Thai/Kun Khmer in modern days.
The only thing that this kind of information proves, is the godlike status of ancient Cambodian kings, and the importance of certain traditions, rituals, and ceremonies to honor these kings. The only thing I can say about this kind of information in regards to Muay Thai, is that also spiritual rituals, spiritual ceremonies, and respect to authority are still very important in Muay Thai/Kun Khmer today.
I'm currently investigating the modern development of Muay Thai in Thailand in the 18th century, and the information I have so far is that the Khmer populations in Thailand in the 18th century were the elite Buddhist clans that were important for the Thai military. All the Muay Thai rituals are undoubtedly brought from Cambodia to Thailand, and then continued and developed in Thailand.
It is clear that many of these rituals developed isolated in Thailand and gave rise to a more sophiticated form of South East Asian unarmed fighting in Thailand, from which Muay Thai was descended. An example of this is the 'Mongkong'. This headband is only found in Thailand, but not in the fighting systems of other countries. Also it seems that Sak Yant was developed by the Khmer communities in Thailand, and then spread to Cambodia, Laos, and Myanmar, together with South East Asian unarmed fighting. However, there are historical clues that primitive forms of tattooing were already practiced in Cambodia, but only on a very small scale. The Thai people of Myanmar and Northern Thailand had much more sophiticated forms of tattooing when they migrated into Myanmar and Thailand, and gave rise to a new form of tattooing tied to Hinduist/Buddhist deities with Khmer/Pali/Sanskrit langauge. From the historical evidence of the 19th centuries from colonial reports, Sak Yant was imported from the Khmer communities in Thailand a few generation before the 19th century.
As Thailand and Cambodia were cultural/ethnic melting pots of Khmer/Thai/Lao/Kuy/Mon/Karen/Malay/Cham/Burmese/etc., there is a lot of cultural diffusion when it comes to ancient culture. In my opinion, to link ancient information about the ancient Cambodian royal court, like the information you shared in your post, with Muay Thai, is only very confusing.
It seems Cambodian people link this information in the wish to showcase that ancient royal Cambodian culture is linked to modern South East Asian unarmed fighting. They don't need to do that, because it is the information that I have shared through all my previous posts that already showcase that South East Asian unarmed fighting is undoubtedly Khmer in origin, and gave rise to Kun Khmer/Muay Thai/Muay Lao/Pradal Serey/Tomoi by way of the elite warrior-culture that was spread from Cambodia to the other South East Asian countries by way of migrating Khmer communities.
It is therefore interesting to see that Battambang was still an epicenter of fighting still in the 20th century, when the Pearic people were mostly replaced by modern Khmer culture and language. Based on all this info, it were the Pearic people of Western Cambodia who invented the predecessor art of Muay Thai, which then was spread to Thailand, Myanmar, Laos, and Malaysia by way of the Khmer military.
It is clear that many of these rituals developed isolated in Thailand and gave rise to a more sophiticated form of South East Asian unarmed fighting in Thailand, from which Muay Thai was descended. An example of this is the 'Mongkong'. This headband is only found in Thailand, but not in the fighting systems of other countries. Also it seems that Sak Yant was developed by the Khmer communities in Thailand, and then spread to Cambodia, Laos, and Myanmar, together with South East Asian unarmed fighting.
[/quote]
Very cool pictures shared by OP, and a lot of very interesting reading in this thread!
I think the connection you've highlighted between military arts of the Pearic people and Battambang is especially neat since Battambang has the reputation of being a hotbed for great fighters amongst Cambodians even to this day.
Question about the mongkhol/mongkhon: it looks like a couple of the Khmer fighters in the pictures above are actually wearing one. In Khmer, it literally means good fortune or blessing (មង្គល). Nowadays Cambodian fighters just wear a headband with a flag on it in the name of nationalism. Is it maybe just a modern thing that the headband is only found in Thailand?
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[/quote]
Question about the mongkhol/mongkhon: it looks like a couple of the Khmer fighters in the pictures above are actually wearing one. In Khmer, it literally means good fortune or blessing (មង្គល). Nowadays Cambodian fighters just wear a headband with a flag on it in the name of nationalism. Is it maybe just a modern thing that the headband is only found in Thailand?
[/quote]
From the pictures, I have to assume it was a common feature of both the Khmer fighters who assimilated in Thailand, and also of the Khmer people of Cambodia.
Yes, you are totally right about the Mongkhol. The word is undoubtedly of Khmer origin, and it also means 'magic (rite)'. Robes/cloths hold a special magical value within the culture of ancient Cambodia until this day. Ancient robes were used as a form of spiritual protection and believed to guard the person when in battle. I have added a picture of the ancient Khmer elite warriors of Angkor who wore these robes. You can see they wear them crosswise around their chest.
That certain types of cloth hold magical value was also the case with the well-known 'Krama' scarf (ក្រមា).
The Thai people have their own version, which uses a greater variety of color, and more elaborate dsigns. It's called the Pahkahma (ผ้าขาวม้า). It is especially worn by the ethnic Khmers of Isan region, but also adopted by a lot of other local groups, who adopted the practice from the ethnic Khmer people.
It is said that it was customary for these scarfs to be worn by the soldiers when they had to go into battle. The colors and designs of the different pieces of cloth represented different communities, and it was worn for good luck and protection. I think it is therefore no coincidence that the scarf has been worn by the Khmer soldiers. Other than that, it is of course a very practical piece of cloth in the landscape ot Thailand and Cambodia to carry something, wipe the sweat away, cover against the sun, or to keep warm at night.
The magical affinity with robes is still strongly present, especially among the rural people of Thailand and Laos. There it is customary to give a white thread to family members after they visited for good luck and protection. It is called "saisin" (สายสิญจน์). A picture is shown below. It is also still customary among all Thais to wear it after a wedding.
It shows how much value the ancient Khmer people of Thailand and Cambodia put in the supernatural power of the blessed robes and threads. I guess the Mongkon is just one version of this superstition in regards to battle and fighting. Most likely it was customary to bless all the threads around the hands and head when going into battle by the village monk, and was named 'Mongkon' as it was associated with blessing and magic. Since the bondage of the hands was replaced by Western boxing gloves, and since the head is the most holy place of the human body, the Mongkon was most likely preserved as a magical object in Muay Thai until modern times. I'm sure originally it was worn during battle as we can see in the picture of the Cambodian fighter, but became a ritualistic pbject that was only worn before a fight because of practical reasons.
I am curious then how the Mongkon was replaced in Cambodia by the headband with the national flag. I know that Buddhists were forbidden by the monarchy to carry out Sak Yant tattooing in the 19th century, while in Thailand this never became illegal by the monks. This new law could have been a factor in also losing other cultural elements that were associated with battle and warriorship.
There were many rebellions by the commoner communities against the monarchy in both Thailand and Cambodia who used magical practices to favor them in battle. It is therefore possible that the magic robes/threads that were associated with fighting, like the Mongkon, also lost importance, especially when it became seen as opposing to the more modern Buddhist faith of the elites, which wanted (the commoners) to step away from magical practices in regards to rebellions.
Question about the mongkhol/mongkhon: it looks like a couple of the Khmer fighters in the pictures above are actually wearing one. In Khmer, it literally means good fortune or blessing (មង្គល). Nowadays Cambodian fighters just wear a headband with a flag on it in the name of nationalism. Is it maybe just a modern thing that the headband is only found in Thailand?
[/quote]
From the pictures, I have to assume it was a common feature of both the Khmer fighters who assimilated in Thailand, and also of the Khmer people of Cambodia.
Yes, you are totally right about the Mongkhol. The word is undoubtedly of Khmer origin, and it also means 'magic (rite)'. Robes/cloths hold a special magical value within the culture of ancient Cambodia until this day. Ancient robes were used as a form of spiritual protection and believed to guard the person when in battle. I have added a picture of the ancient Khmer elite warriors of Angkor who wore these robes. You can see they wear them crosswise around their chest.
That certain types of cloth hold magical value was also the case with the well-known 'Krama' scarf (ក្រមា).
The Thai people have their own version, which uses a greater variety of color, and more elaborate dsigns. It's called the Pahkahma (ผ้าขาวม้า). It is especially worn by the ethnic Khmers of Isan region, but also adopted by a lot of other local groups, who adopted the practice from the ethnic Khmer people.
It is said that it was customary for these scarfs to be worn by the soldiers when they had to go into battle. The colors and designs of the different pieces of cloth represented different communities, and it was worn for good luck and protection. I think it is therefore no coincidence that the scarf has been worn by the Khmer soldiers. Other than that, it is of course a very practical piece of cloth in the landscape ot Thailand and Cambodia to carry something, wipe the sweat away, cover against the sun, or to keep warm at night.
The magical affinity with robes is still strongly present, especially among the rural people of Thailand and Laos. There it is customary to give a white thread to family members after they visited for good luck and protection. It is called "saisin" (สายสิญจน์). A picture is shown below. It is also still customary among all Thais to wear it after a wedding.
It shows how much value the ancient Khmer people of Thailand and Cambodia put in the supernatural power of the blessed robes and threads. I guess the Mongkon is just one version of this superstition in regards to battle and fighting. Most likely it was customary to bless all the threads around the hands and head when going into battle by the village monk, and was named 'Mongkon' as it was associated with blessing and magic. Since the bondage of the hands was replaced by Western boxing gloves, and since the head is the most holy place of the human body, the Mongkon was most likely preserved as a magical object in Muay Thai until modern times. I'm sure originally it was worn during battle as we can see in the picture of the Cambodian fighter, but became a ritualistic pbject that was only worn before a fight because of practical reasons.
I am curious then how the Mongkon was replaced in Cambodia by the headband with the national flag. I know that Buddhists were forbidden by the monarchy to carry out Sak Yant tattooing in the 19th century, while in Thailand this never became illegal by the monks. This new law could have been a factor in also losing other cultural elements that were associated with battle and warriorship.
There were many rebellions by the commoner communities against the monarchy in both Thailand and Cambodia who used magical practices to favor them in battle. It is therefore possible that the magic robes/threads that were associated with fighting, like the Mongkon, also lost importance, especially when it became seen as opposing to the more modern Buddhist faith of the elites, which wanted (the commoners) to step away from magical practices in regards to rebellions.
Question about the mongkhol/mongkhon: it looks like a couple of the Khmer fighters in the pictures above are actually wearing one. In Khmer, it literally means good fortune or blessing (មង្គល). Nowadays Cambodian fighters just wear a headband with a flag on it in the name of nationalism. Is it maybe just a modern thing that the headband is only found in Thailand?
[/quote]
From the pictures, I have to assume it was a common feature of both the Khmer fighters who assimilated in Thailand, and also of the Khmer people of Cambodia.
Yes, you are totally right about the Mongkhol. The word is undoubtedly of Khmer origin, and it also means 'magic (rite)'. Robes/cloths hold a special magical value within the culture of ancient Cambodia until this day. Ancient robes were used as a form of spiritual protection and believed to guard the person when in battle. I have added a picture of the ancient Khmer elite warriors of Angkor who wore these robes. You can see they wear them crosswise around their chest.
That certain types of cloth hold magical value was also the case with the well-known 'Krama' scarf (ក្រមា).
The Thai people have their own version, which uses a greater variety of color, and more elaborate dsigns. It's called the Pahkahma (ผ้าขาวม้า). It is especially worn by the ethnic Khmers of Isan region, but also adopted by a lot of other local groups, who adopted the practice from the ethnic Khmer people.
It is said that it was customary for these scarfs to be worn by the soldiers when they had to go into battle. The colors and designs of the different pieces of cloth represented different communities, and it was worn for good luck and protection. I think it is therefore no coincidence that the scarf has been worn by the Khmer soldiers. Other than that, it is of course a very practical piece of cloth in the landscape ot Thailand and Cambodia to carry something, wipe the sweat away, cover against the sun, or to keep warm at night.
The magical affinity with robes is still strongly present, especially among the rural people of Thailand and Laos. There it is customary to give a white thread to family members after they visited for good luck and protection. It is called "saisin" (สายสิญจน์). A picture is shown below. It is also still customary among all Thais to wear it after a wedding.
It shows how much value the ancient Khmer people of Thailand and Cambodia put in the supernatural power of the blessed robes and threads. I guess the Mongkon is just one version of this superstition in regards to battle and fighting. Most likely it was customary to bless all the threads around the hands and head when going into battle by the village monk, and was named 'Mongkon' as it was associated with blessing and magic. Since the bondage of the hands was replaced by Western boxing gloves, and since the head is the most holy place of the human body, the Mongkon was most likely preserved as a magical object in Muay Thai until modern times. I'm sure originally it was worn during battle as we can see in the picture of the Cambodian fighter, but became a ritualistic pbject that was only worn before a fight because of practical reasons.
I am curious then how the Mongkon was replaced in Cambodia by the headband with the national flag. I know that Buddhists were forbidden by the monarchy to carry out Sak Yant tattooing in the 19th century, while in Thailand this never became illegal by the monks. This new law could have been a factor in also losing other cultural elements that were associated with battle and warriorship.
There were many rebellions by the commoner communities against the monarchy in both Thailand and Cambodia who used magical practices to favor them in battle. It is therefore possible that the magic robes/threads that were associated with fighting, like the Mongkon, also lost importance, especially when it became seen as opposing to the more modern Buddhist faith of the elites, which wanted (the commoners) to step away from magical practices in regards to rebellions.
[/quote]
I am wondering when was the use kard chuek implement in Cambodia. Was the use of Kard chuek before the colonial period?
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[/quote]
I am wondering when was the use kard chuek implement in Cambodia. Was the use of Kard chuek before the colonial period?
[/quote]
No idea.. It was being practiced in Thailand before Western gloves were introduced, but from these pictures it shows that Cambodian fighters fought with bare hands before boxing gloves were introduced. Maybe the use of rope to wrap hands was more common in Thailand than it was in Cambodia, or maybe it was common in both countries, but disappeared in Cambodia, just like the Mongkon-headband.
I am wondering when was the use kard chuek implement in Cambodia. Was the use of Kard chuek before the colonial period?
[/quote]
No idea.. It was being practiced in Thailand before Western gloves were introduced, but from these pictures it shows that Cambodian fighters fought with bare hands before boxing gloves were introduced. Maybe the use of rope to wrap hands was more common in Thailand than it was in Cambodia, or maybe it was common in both countries, but disappeared in Cambodia, just like the Mongkon-headband.
I am wondering when was the use kard chuek implement in Cambodia. Was the use of Kard chuek before the colonial period?
[/quote]
No idea.. It was being practiced in Thailand before Western gloves were introduced, but from these pictures it shows that Cambodian fighters fought with bare hands before boxing gloves were introduced. Maybe the use of rope to wrap hands was more common in Thailand than it was in Cambodia, or maybe it was common in both countries, but disappeared in Cambodia, just like the Mongkon-headband.
[/quote]
Found the answer about the Kard Cheuk. A friend of mine from Cambodia who is a Pradal Serey coach sent me a message about it. This is in his own words.
To answer about the kard cherk question,
In Ancient times we fought with bound fist also ( kard cherk) or in khmer Ombos Chav and there were events where they fought to the death. What makes us different from the Thais is that when we fought to the death the rope on our hand had glue on our knuckles and back fist which was then dipped in broken sea shells. This is the ancient way. And fighters must provide their own coffin
And in events where the kings generals would go to different provinces to recruit new soilders they would just wrap their hand in ombos chav and fought with timed rounds using water dripped into a coconut, when the coconut would sink that’s the end of the round.
Some province in Cambodia fight with bare knuckle. Gloves wasn’t introduced to us until the French came
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- I've got nothing better to do
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[/quote]
No idea.. It was being practiced in Thailand before Western gloves were introduced, but from these pictures it shows that Cambodian fighters fought with bare hands before boxing gloves were introduced. Maybe the use of rope to wrap hands was more common in Thailand than it was in Cambodia, or maybe it was common in both countries, but disappeared in Cambodia, just like the Mongkon-headband.
[/quote]
Found the answer about the Kard Cheuk. A friend of mine from Cambodia who is a Pradal Serey coach sent me a message about it. This is in his own words.
To answer about the kard cherk question,
In Ancient times we fought with bound fist also ( kard cherk) or in khmer Ombos Chav and there were events where they fought to the death. What makes us different from the Thais is that when we fought to the death the rope on our hand had glue on our knuckles and back fist which was then dipped in broken sea shells. This is the ancient way. And fighters must provide their own coffin
And in events where the kings generals would go to different provinces to recruit new soilders they would just wrap their hand in ombos chav and fought with timed rounds using water dripped into a coconut, when the coconut would sink that’s the end of the round.
Some province in Cambodia fight with bare knuckle. Gloves wasn’t introduced to us until the French came
[/quote]
I doubt that this coach knows anything about it. This urban legend about hand wraps being glued with broken sea shells or glass is an urban legend that has been going around for ages. Have you seen the movie Kickboxer with Jean Claude van Damme? Well, there you see this practice being showed. Also in the comedy movie Hot Shots do they portray this practice as a joke.
Where this urban legend comes from? Answer: Africa. There really was a fighting style where fighters dipped their wraps in glass and also fought to the death. There is an article about it in the following link:African death fighting
In South East Asian fighting, people didn't fight to the death. This goes against Buddhist practice. People died from fighting, surely, but this was not encouraged or part of a rule-set.
I guess your friend saw too many movies, or just made up something that he heard from someone else. Unfortunately, false information about martial arts keeps being spread, also by high level coaches. I heard a famous Muay Thai coach say that people from Yunnan brought the fighting art to Thailand, while there is no trace of any fighting style in Yunnan other than some Chinese Kung Fu styles, also no South East Asian fighting style among the Thai tribes in Myanmar and Vietnam where other Thai people migrated to, while South East Asian fighting was already practiced in Cambodia before any Thai person was present in Thailand, Laos, or Cambodia (for as far as we know according to the historical evidence).
No idea.. It was being practiced in Thailand before Western gloves were introduced, but from these pictures it shows that Cambodian fighters fought with bare hands before boxing gloves were introduced. Maybe the use of rope to wrap hands was more common in Thailand than it was in Cambodia, or maybe it was common in both countries, but disappeared in Cambodia, just like the Mongkon-headband.
[/quote]
Found the answer about the Kard Cheuk. A friend of mine from Cambodia who is a Pradal Serey coach sent me a message about it. This is in his own words.
To answer about the kard cherk question,
In Ancient times we fought with bound fist also ( kard cherk) or in khmer Ombos Chav and there were events where they fought to the death. What makes us different from the Thais is that when we fought to the death the rope on our hand had glue on our knuckles and back fist which was then dipped in broken sea shells. This is the ancient way. And fighters must provide their own coffin
And in events where the kings generals would go to different provinces to recruit new soilders they would just wrap their hand in ombos chav and fought with timed rounds using water dripped into a coconut, when the coconut would sink that’s the end of the round.
Some province in Cambodia fight with bare knuckle. Gloves wasn’t introduced to us until the French came
[/quote]
I doubt that this coach knows anything about it. This urban legend about hand wraps being glued with broken sea shells or glass is an urban legend that has been going around for ages. Have you seen the movie Kickboxer with Jean Claude van Damme? Well, there you see this practice being showed. Also in the comedy movie Hot Shots do they portray this practice as a joke.
Where this urban legend comes from? Answer: Africa. There really was a fighting style where fighters dipped their wraps in glass and also fought to the death. There is an article about it in the following link:African death fighting
In South East Asian fighting, people didn't fight to the death. This goes against Buddhist practice. People died from fighting, surely, but this was not encouraged or part of a rule-set.
I guess your friend saw too many movies, or just made up something that he heard from someone else. Unfortunately, false information about martial arts keeps being spread, also by high level coaches. I heard a famous Muay Thai coach say that people from Yunnan brought the fighting art to Thailand, while there is no trace of any fighting style in Yunnan other than some Chinese Kung Fu styles, also no South East Asian fighting style among the Thai tribes in Myanmar and Vietnam where other Thai people migrated to, while South East Asian fighting was already practiced in Cambodia before any Thai person was present in Thailand, Laos, or Cambodia (for as far as we know according to the historical evidence).
No idea.. It was being practiced in Thailand before Western gloves were introduced, but from these pictures it shows that Cambodian fighters fought with bare hands before boxing gloves were introduced. Maybe the use of rope to wrap hands was more common in Thailand than it was in Cambodia, or maybe it was common in both countries, but disappeared in Cambodia, just like the Mongkon-headband.
[/quote]
Found the answer about the Kard Cheuk. A friend of mine from Cambodia who is a Pradal Serey coach sent me a message about it. This is in his own words.
To answer about the kard cherk question,
In Ancient times we fought with bound fist also ( kard cherk) or in khmer Ombos Chav and there were events where they fought to the death. What makes us different from the Thais is that when we fought to the death the rope on our hand had glue on our knuckles and back fist which was then dipped in broken sea shells. This is the ancient way. And fighters must provide their own coffin
And in events where the kings generals would go to different provinces to recruit new soilders they would just wrap their hand in ombos chav and fought with timed rounds using water dripped into a coconut, when the coconut would sink that’s the end of the round.
Some province in Cambodia fight with bare knuckle. Gloves wasn’t introduced to us until the French came
[/quote]
I doubt that this coach knows anything about it. This urban legend about hand wraps being glued with broken sea shells or glass is an urban legend that has been going around for ages. Have you seen the movie Kickboxer with Jean Claude van Damme? Well, there you see this practice being showed. Also in the comedy movie Hot Shots do they portray this practice as a joke.
Where this urban legend comes from? Answer: Africa. There really was a fighting style where fighters dipped their wraps in glass and also fought to the death. There is an article about it in the following link:African death fighting
In South East Asian fighting, people didn't fight to the death. This goes against Buddhist practice. People died from fighting, surely, but this was not encouraged or part of a rule-set.
I guess your friend saw too many movies, or just made up something that he heard from someone else. Unfortunately, false information about martial arts keeps being spread, also by high level coaches. I heard a famous Muay Thai coach say that people from Yunnan brought the fighting art to Thailand, while there is no trace of any fighting style in Yunnan other than some Chinese Kung Fu styles, also no South East Asian fighting style among the Thai tribes in Myanmar and Vietnam where other Thai people migrated to, while South East Asian fighting was already practiced in Cambodia before any Thai person was present in Thailand, Laos, or Cambodia (for as far as we know according to the historical evidence).
[/quote]
Truly we don't have an answer but all I can say is it still remains a mystery about Kard cheuk. I do agree on you about Yunnan. There isn't any historical evidence of the Shan martial art "Lai Tai" from chinese historical sources. I know the word "Lai" in the laotian language means "style". I not too familiar with the Shan language but my have too check it out. I did see some Muay Lao Lai photos and videos around the internet that resemble Cambodian martial art. I think there's a picture in the Muay Lao Wikipedia page where the two guys doing like stretches. That is a type of warm up stretch used for training wrestling.
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