Pearic languages
Pearic languages
I have found recording audio by a researcher name Marie Alexandrine Martin. I believe it was recorded before 1975. Marie Alexandrine Martin (who could speak Khmer) worked with a female Khmer-speaking collaborator. During lexical elicitation, she gives a Khmer version of an item as a prompt, and the Pear consultant says the word twice in the target language.
https://pangloss.cnrs.fr/corpus/Samre?lang=en&mode=pro
https://pangloss.cnrs.fr/corpus/Samre?lang=en&mode=pro
1
1
First time motorbiking alone over the Cardamoms, Jan 2000, I stayed overnight in a Koy village. Couldn't figure out what the heck they were on about half the time!
Guess many more speak Khmer now, if not Chinese, but thanks for the recording, with luck I can bump into some speakers post pandemic!
Guess many more speak Khmer now, if not Chinese, but thanks for the recording, with luck I can bump into some speakers post pandemic!
-
- I've got nothing better to do
- Reactions: 5
- Posts: 70
- Joined: Wed Oct 24, 2018 4:09 am
Interesting! The Pearic language is now almost completely extinct, and there is much confusion over who the Pearic people were in relation to ancient Cambodia. The people in Battambang and Angkor-region may have spoken a language much more closely related to Pearic, even still in the 19th century. Already in the 13th century, it was written in Zou Daguan's report that every village had their own language in Cambodia, indicating that there was a variety of different languages and dialects in Cambodia itself.kke802 wrote: ↑Wed Mar 24, 2021 1:41 amI have found recording audio by a researcher name Marie Alexandrine Martin. I believe it was recorded before 1975. Marie Alexandrine Martin (who could speak Khmer) worked with a female Khmer-speaking collaborator. During lexical elicitation, she gives a Khmer version of an item as a prompt, and the Pear consultant says the word twice in the target language.
https://pangloss.cnrs.fr/corpus/Samre?lang=en&mode=pro
Also in Thailand there were many different dialects of Khmer, because of the admixture with Mon, Thai, and Lao. Prof. Vickery explained how, according to the Khmer inscriptions of Thailand, we can see that there were at least five different dialects in the 15th/16th centuries. Some of these tribes also travelled back to Cambodia, bringing with them many elements of Thai language into Khmer language.
It seems that the Southern region of Cambodia, centered around Phnom Penh (formerly known as Caturmukh; four faces of Brahma), was a fusion of an Ayutthayan prince from Surath Thani and the Pearic elites of Cambodia who created a new Khmer monarchy in the 15th century.
From the ancient inscriptions we know that the Samre people of Angkor were the elites in the 16th and 17th centuries, and in Western Cambodia at least until Battambang became the Siamese province of Inner Cambodia (1795-1907), ruled by the famous Abhaiwongse family. It's possible that the Abhaiwongse family itself is of Pearic origin.
Pearic has often been classified as an ethnicity, but the people who spoke Pearic languages just merged into a modern Cambodian culture, and the Pearic people are just the ancestors of the modern Khmer people. The isolated tribes who still speak Pearic language, and still are more closely related to the ancient cultural practices are also labeled as 'Khmer Doam', meaning 'original Khmers'.
The Pearic people of Angkor region and Battambang region were the most famous warriors of South East Asia, and they were the ones who created 'Musti Yuddha', from which Muay Thai ultimately descended (and Kun Khmer/Muay Lao, and Lethwei). The warriors were known in the inscriptions as "Khnum/Khnom" (temple servants). Most people don't know the origin of the word 'Khnum'/'Khnom', but actually it is one of the most famous ancient Khmer words from the old Khmer inscriptions, and one of the most important modern Khmer pronouns.
This is where 'Khnom', the first-person singular nominative case personal pronoun in Modern Khmer derrived from, as well as the possesive pronoun. As the Khmer people saw themselves as servants who served the Buddhist/Hinduist deities and realms, and who primarily grew up in religious temple-communities, they started to call themselves as 'Khnom' (example: I am, means 'Khnom ku': ខ្ញុំគឺ។), and use 'Khnom' also as possesive pronoun ('my house' became 'phteah khnom': ផ្ទះខ្ញុំ).
Do you know who was the most famous 'Khnom' that ever lived? He is called Nai Khnom Tom, the father of Muay Thai. His name means 'leader of the great temple-servants'. In modern Khmer you write like this: នាយខ្ញុំធំ.
The word for 'hill'/'mountain' in Khmer is 'Phnom' (ភ្ភ្). In Thai this word became 'Phanom' (พนม), because you automatically place and pronounce a vowel 'a' between the Thai letters Ph-(พ) and -n(น): The Khmer word of Phnom, therefore in Thai language becomes --> Phanom (for example: Phanom Rung; the Khmer temple in Thailand).
This also explains how the Khmer word 'Khnom' became pronounced and written as 'Khanom' in Thai language, because also between the letters Kh-(ข) and -n(น) do you automatically pronounce a vowel 'a' between the two Thai letters: Khnom --> Khanom.
The confusion arrises, because there is also a Mon word 'khanom', which means 'desert' or 'cake' as in ขนมต้ม, which means 'boiled coconut balls'. However, this meaning has nothing to do with Nai Khanom Tom or Muay Thai. 'Thom' in Khmer doesn't mean 'boiled', but it means 'Great', as in Angkor Thom; Greater Angkor.
-
- I've got nothing better to do
- Reactions: 5
- Posts: 70
- Joined: Wed Oct 24, 2018 4:09 am
Do you mean the Kuoy, as in part of the Kuy/Suay? They have a rich history and were closely related to the Angkorean regime. There is also a Pearic tribe called Soeui, and they share the name with some Kuy tribes, but are part of the Pearic language. The Kuy people in Thailand are also called 'Khmer Boran' (ancient Khmer), as well as some Pearic tribes in Thailand.Guest9999 wrote: ↑Wed Mar 24, 2021 11:47 amFirst time motorbiking alone over the Cardamoms, Jan 2000, I stayed overnight in a Koy village. Couldn't figure out what the heck they were on about half the time!
Guess many more speak Khmer now, if not Chinese, but thanks for the recording, with luck I can bump into some speakers post pandemic!
It's cool to know that there are still tribes left who speak their indigenous language. They are becoming a rarity nowadays, although there are efforts to revive certain cultures and languages as well.
So does this mean that the Pearics were landowners due to their warrior status?SEAhistory wrote: ↑Thu Mar 25, 2021 7:17 pmInteresting! The Pearic language is now almost completely extinct, and there is much confusion over who the Pearic people were in relation to ancient Cambodia. The people in Battambang and Angkor-region may have spoken a language much more closely related to Pearic, even still in the 19th century. Already in the 13th century, it was written in Zou Daguan's report that every village had their own language in Cambodia, indicating that there was a variety of different languages and dialects in Cambodia itself.kke802 wrote: ↑Wed Mar 24, 2021 1:41 amI have found recording audio by a researcher name Marie Alexandrine Martin. I believe it was recorded before 1975. Marie Alexandrine Martin (who could speak Khmer) worked with a female Khmer-speaking collaborator. During lexical elicitation, she gives a Khmer version of an item as a prompt, and the Pear consultant says the word twice in the target language.
https://pangloss.cnrs.fr/corpus/Samre?lang=en&mode=pro
Also in Thailand there were many different dialects of Khmer, because of the admixture with Mon, Thai, and Lao. Prof. Vickery explained how, according to the Khmer inscriptions of Thailand, we can see that there were at least five different dialects in the 15th/16th centuries. Some of these tribes also travelled back to Cambodia, bringing with them many elements of Thai language into Khmer language.
It seems that the Southern region of Cambodia, centered around Phnom Penh (formerly known as Caturmukh; four faces of Brahma), was a fusion of an Ayutthayan prince from Surath Thani and the Pearic elites of Cambodia who created a new Khmer monarchy in the 15th century.
From the ancient inscriptions we know that the Samre people of Angkor were the elites in the 16th and 17th centuries, and in Western Cambodia at least until Battambang became the Siamese province of Inner Cambodia (1795-1907), ruled by the famous Abhaiwongse family. It's possible that the Abhaiwongse family itself is of Pearic origin.
Pearic has often been classified as an ethnicity, but the people who spoke Pearic languages just merged into a modern Cambodian culture, and the Pearic people are just the ancestors of the modern Khmer people. The isolated tribes who still speak Pearic language, and still are more closely related to the ancient cultural practices are also labeled as 'Khmer Doam', meaning 'original Khmers'.
The Pearic people of Angkor region and Battambang region were the most famous warriors of South East Asia, and they were the ones who created 'Musti Yuddha', from which Muay Thai ultimately descended (and Kun Khmer/Muay Lao, and Lethwei). The warriors were known in the inscriptions as "Khnum/Khnom" (temple servants). Most people don't know the origin of the word 'Khnum'/'Khnom', but actually it is one of the most famous ancient Khmer words from the old Khmer inscriptions, and one of the most important modern Khmer pronouns.
This is where 'Khnom', the first-person singular nominative case personal pronoun in Modern Khmer derrived from, as well as the possesive pronoun. As the Khmer people saw themselves as servants who served the Buddhist/Hinduist deities and realms, and who primarily grew up in religious temple-communities, they started to call themselves as 'Khnom' (example: I am, means 'Khnom ku': ខ្ញុំគឺ។), and use 'Khnom' also as possesive pronoun ('my house' became 'phteah khnom': ផ្ទះខ្ញុំ).
Do you know who was the most famous 'Khnom' that ever lived? He is called Nai Khnom Tom, the father of Muay Thai. His name means 'leader of the great temple-servants'. In modern Khmer you write like this: នាយខ្ញុំធំ.
The word for 'hill'/'mountain' in Khmer is 'Phnom' (ភ្ភ្). In Thai this word became 'Phanom' (พนม), because you automatically place and pronounce a vowel 'a' between the Thai letters Ph-(พ) and -n(น): The Khmer word of Phnom, therefore in Thai language becomes --> Phanom (for example: Phanom Rung; the Khmer temple in Thailand).
This also explains how the Khmer word 'Khnom' became pronounced and written as 'Khanom' in Thai language, because also between the letters Kh-(ข) and -n(น) do you automatically pronounce a vowel 'a' between the two Thai letters: Khnom --> Khanom.
The confusion arrises, because there is also a Mon word 'khanom', which means 'desert' or 'cake' as in ขนมต้ม, which means 'boiled coconut balls'. However, this meaning has nothing to do with Nai Khanom Tom or Muay Thai. 'Thom' in Khmer doesn't mean 'boiled', but it means 'Great', as in Angkor Thom; Greater Angkor.
-
- I've got nothing better to do
- Reactions: 5
- Posts: 70
- Joined: Wed Oct 24, 2018 4:09 am
The warriors who are mentioned here are the boxers that belonged to the clan which was called "Varna Musti Yuddha'. The people of Angkor and of Battambang were divided into Varna's. The most mighty Varna was the Varna Sañjak. They were the elite warriors who carried out military raids and who protected the country as the national army. They also were appointed by the Cambodian kings as personal bodyguards. They were highly trained in martial arts and weaponry, and the walls of Angkor are depicted with training sessions of these elite warriors doing boxing, grappling, and wrestling. Besides the warriors, the Varnak Sañjak was the Varna that delivered the most mighty Brahmin priests, and at times also the royal members.
Another Varna was the Varna Musti Yuddha. These warriors were the boxers. They could win big plots of land in Angkor, which was normally only reserved for priests. This Varna was also created in the 10th century, together with all the other Varnas. The inscription you presented is an ancient Khmer contract, which were used to make business deals and to assign temples and lands with animals, servants (Khnum/Khnom), and other assignments. These contracts were religious contracts. They were believed to have been made as witnessed by the Hinduist Gods. A whole ceremony with rituals by the Brahmin priests was needed to create an inscription with the appropriate assignments to create new areas of economic use or religious use.
These Varnas were all created by the Brahmin priests who ruled Angkor in the 10th century, with Jayavarman V as the young king. The Varna's were not only boxers and priests, but also Varna's of goldsmiths, dancers, and many other professions. Belonging to a Varna meant that you were directly tied to the royal court and religious institutions, and it granted you special rights over all other people in exchange for direct servitude for the rulers.
The boxer that was mentioned in the inscription belongs to the Varna Musti Yuddha, and apparently, he was a great fighter who won great fights in the ancient boxing competition that took place in Angkor in the 10th century. The inscription tells of a business deal where the king bought the land from the boxer. It shows how high in regard the Khmer boxers were viewed, as the king had to set up a formal religious ceremony to take over the land from the boxer. The boxer can be assured that he had a comfortable retirement. For some reason, all these inscriptions are ignored when it comes to the Cambodian history of Muay Thai.
The people that call themselve 'Poar' are descended from families that once were part of a 'Varna', and the name became 'Khmerized' into 'Poar' (Varna-->Barn-->Poar). There is one inscription, which tells that the king Srindravarman II (1296-1306AD) was a 'Neak Varna' and also a 'Neak Khmer'. It shows that the people saw themselves as Khmer, but had extra status among other Khmer people as belonging to a Varna. That's why I said that Pearic is much more a language than an ethnicity, because the people labeled themselves as Khmer while belonging to a Varna at the same time , indicating that belonging to a Varna didn't mean you were viewed as ethnically different.
The Thai people of the 14th century did distinguish between Khmer and Pearic. In the fragment of the 15th century that prof. Vickery studied, the people who lived in Angkor and Battambang were both labelled as Poar. Also the rulers of Angkor were called Poar, and the Thai/Khmer royal union of Yat was presented as a Thai/Khmer/Pearic union of a Khmer prince of Ayutthaya who married into the Poar royal family of Cambodia, and found a new capital at Phnom Penh (Caturmukh).
The elite members of Cambodia were called Poar, but also Khmer. When Jayavarman VII came to power, he changed the country into a Buddhist country, and then the military Varna's became Buddhist military Varna which was simply called 'Varna', until the Varna ceased to exist in the 17th century, while all other Varna's of other professions and Hinduist priesthood were abandoned and disappeared from history already in the 12th century. In the 13th century, the different names of the Varna's were no longer used. From then, only the name 'Varna' was used. From the inscriptions of the 16th and 17th century, we can also see that the people of the Varna's were still elite members of society. They seem to be presented as a warrior clan, which was directly tied to the administration of the region, but now under control of the capital in the south.
The word for Varna disappeared in the 18th century. The only way it is still used is by certain isolated communities in Battambang and Western Cambodia who still speak their original language besides the modern Khmer language. From the reports of the 19th and 20th centuries, these people were proud to call themselves 'Poar', and they all had recollection of their ancestors being appointed by the king to perform labour in the area. They were also fierce warriors who had to go into battle when the king requested it. Some even only married within their own tribes, as they felt they were spiritual superior to other tribes in the vicinity, like the Chong (also labelled as Pearic) and the Kuy.
The Chong are also labelled as Pearic, but for the wrong reasons. The people who still call themselves Chong are isolated tribe members who also speak the Pearic language, but who were not belonging to the elite communities of the Varna. So the Chong are the people who spoke the ancient Khmer language, but who were not part of the Varna, making them not be named Khmer, but Chong. The Chong are also mentioned a lot throughout the inscriptions, but they were called Chong because they belonged to the peasant populations who were subservient to the royal court and the Varnas. These people were often used as slaves, like farmers, herders, mountain dwellers, etc.), and a report in the 13th century mentions how 'thieving Zhuang' (Chuang) were tribe members who were used as slaves and who enjoyed less status, and who came from the mountains. These Chong people should not be confused with Poar people, as the Poar people enjoyed higher status in ancient times.
It's possible that there was a Chong uprising, because there are indications that Chong area sometimes tried to gain control over Angkor, and that the Angkorean people therefore gained superiority over them in the 13th century. The word Chong is derrived from the Sanskrit word 'Jana', which became 'Jon', and ultimately Chong/Chuang.
The Chong people became allies of the Poar peoples, as they are mentioned in the Royal Chronicles. The Chong are mentioned to fight together with the Poar people in the 15th century, and in the 16th century as well. There was also a Chong king of Angkor in the 16th century. The shift to Buddhism most likely caused the status difference to cease, while they became allies to fight a common enemy with a shared Buddhist religion.
So basically there were three groups of Khmer people in Angkorean times. The Chong who mostly lived in the jungle and were of lowest status, and who were primarily animistic, but had no Indian religious affinity. Then the commoner Khmer people, who were the citizens of the urbanized communities, and who had Indian religious affinity like being ruled by hinduist priests, and who later transformed into Buddhist communities. And the most elite members of society were the people of the Varna's, who were not only associated with the Hinduist rule, but who delivered the priests and royalty. These Varna communities were ruled by a Hinduist priest, and divided into different economic professions, into boxing clans, priesthood functions, royal functions, military functions, etc.
The people who still call/called themselves as 'Poar' in modern times, are descended from the communities that were granted elite status over the other populations in exchange for their service. The people that still call themselves Chong are the people who lived in the mountainous areas and who spoke the same language as the Poar people, but who were lower in status since they were not tied to the religious or royal institutions. The name 'Chong' just means 'Person', while 'Poar' just means 'Varna' in the Pearic language. Because these tribes are in modern times seen as more primitive, they lost their status. In more primitive times, these people were fierceful warriors who were famous for giving their life to protect their rulers at all costs, and they were seen as absolutely fearless who had complete disregard for their own lives in battle.
Most of the Khmer people of the Varna now just call themselves Khmer, and from the inscriptions we can read that the people of the Varna were also labelled as Khmer in ancient times. That some people still speak Pearic language, doesn't necessarily mean they also belonged to a Varna-clan once. This is why the term 'Poar'/'Pearic' is confusing, because only the Pearic people who label themselves as 'Poar' people belonged to an elite Varna-clan once.
-
- I've got nothing better to do
- Reactions: 5
- Posts: 70
- Joined: Wed Oct 24, 2018 4:09 am
Were these inscriptions written in Sanskrit or Old Khmer? If they were written in Old Khmer, it would indicate that the term Musti Yuddha was copied directly from the Sanskrit language of India. This could indicate that Musti Yuddha was also directly brought over from India as well in the 10th century. The ancient Musti Yuddha Guru's could therefore very well have been Indian martial art trainers who were brought over to create and lead the Varna Musti Yuddha. There are mentions of Indian Guru's being brought over from India to Cambodia in other inscriptions.
The whole martial arts culture in Asia started with Bodhidarma (according to legend) who travelled to China to teach Buddhist monks fighting with the body and weapons in the 6th century. He came from Southern India, and it shows how the Asian martial arts had an Indian origin, as well as the Hinduist Indonesians who developed Pencak Silat. It wouldn't be surprising if the Cambodian armed, and unarmed fighting system was copied from India, as much of their religion, language, architecture, etc., was also brought from India.
There is no mention of boxing in any of the South East Asian inscriptions before the 10th century (or after the 10th century for that matter, other than the Khmer inscriptions), indicating that it didn't exist before, at least not as an official martial art that was tied to the royal court with elite status of that as royalty and priesthood members.
So does this mean that the Pearics were landowners due to their warrior status?
[/quote]
Were these inscriptions written in Sanskrit or Old Khmer? If they were written in Old Khmer, it would indicate that the term Musti Yuddha was copied directly from the Sanskrit language of India. This could indicate that Musti Yuddha was also directly brought over from India as well in the 10th century. The ancient Musti Yuddha Guru's could therefore very well have been Indian martial art trainers who were brought over to create and lead the Varna Musti Yuddha. There are mentions of Indian Guru's being brought over from India to Cambodia in other inscriptions.
The whole martial arts culture in Asia started with Bodhidarma (according to legend) who travelled to China to teach Buddhist monks fighting with the body and weapons in the 6th century. He came from Southern India, and it shows how the Asian martial arts had an Indian origin, as well as the Hinduist Indonesians who developed Pencak Silat. It wouldn't be surprising if the Cambodian armed, and unarmed fighting system was copied from India, as much of their religion, language, architecture, etc., was also brought from India.
There is no mention of boxing in any of the South East Asian inscriptions before the 10th century (or after the 10th century for that matter, other than the Khmer inscriptions), indicating that it didn't exist before, at least not as an official martial art that was tied to the royal court with elite status of that as royalty and priesthood members.
[/quote]
I've read some claims online that lethwei dates back to the Pyu empire in the 2nd century BCE. Are you aware of any historical evidence for this?
-
- I've got nothing better to do
- Reactions: 5
- Posts: 70
- Joined: Wed Oct 24, 2018 4:09 am
Yes, those claims are totally not supported by historical evidence. First of all, there is only one temple with a depiction of boxers in Myanmar. It is from a Mon temple, and the people who founded this temple were most-likely Mon who came from Thailand. This was after the tenth century, most likely around 12th century that the temple was built.
I've read some claims online that lethwei dates back to the Pyu empire in the 2nd century BCE. Are you aware of any historical evidence for this?
Also, there are numerous Burmese martial arts besides Lethwei. They are all similar to Kung Fu, and have a very clear Chinese origin. No Burmese martial art resembles Lethwei or Muay Thai one bit. Just like the Burmese and Pyu people of Myanmar are Sino-Tibetan, all their martial arts resemble Chinese martial arts.
Besides the one temple, there is no evidence of a martial art being practiced in Myanmar ever. At least, I have searched very thoroughly, and I haven't been able to find any sources of evidence besides the one temple. I still have to do some research into the temple and the history behind the temple.
-
- I've got nothing better to do
- Reactions: 5
- Posts: 70
- Joined: Wed Oct 24, 2018 4:09 am
Besides the temple, there is no evidence to support that there was a martial art like Lethwei during the reign of Pyu people or after. I could be wrong, though. If anyone can provide me with evidence, I would of course be very appreciative.
I've read some claims online that lethwei dates back to the Pyu empire in the 2nd century BCE. Are you aware of any historical evidence for this?
The whole thing is that it's confusing which people were responsible for what. The origin of Mon people in Burma is obscure and debated. Then there is the main population of Burmese people are related to the oldest inhabitants, both the Bamar and Pyu people, who both speak Sino-Tibetan languages. Then there are the Thai people in the North East, who are related to the Thai people who settled in Laos and Thailand. Then there are also all the other minorities, like Karen and others.
The origin of Burma is Pyu, but the Bamar people moved in and settled the Pyu lands at one point in history. Then there are also the Mon people, but it is debated when they arrived. So it's a tricky history with a lot of abscurity, but it requires a lot more research.
So far I can conclude that there is very little evidence to support an origin of Muay Thai, other than the Buddhist temple for a martial art like Lethwei. Of course, I am very open to any evidence that support the existence of a related martial art in Burma in ancient times.
Thanks! I don't know anything about Burmese history but would definitely be interested in hearing what you're able to uncover about this 12th century temple. So it sounds like with the exception of lethwei, Burmese martial arts finds its basis in Chinese rather than Indian or native SE Asian martial arts.
Do you know of any styles of martial arts practiced in the Xishuangbanna prefecture? My understanding is that's the area from where where the Tai/Lao people originate. I've seen pictures of the architecture there and it's eerily similar to what's found in present day Thailand and Cambodia - from the tiered roofs to the naga balustrades. I'd be kinda surprised if they don't also practice something similar to muay thai/pradal serey.
Do you know of any styles of martial arts practiced in the Xishuangbanna prefecture? My understanding is that's the area from where where the Tai/Lao people originate. I've seen pictures of the architecture there and it's eerily similar to what's found in present day Thailand and Cambodia - from the tiered roofs to the naga balustrades. I'd be kinda surprised if they don't also practice something similar to muay thai/pradal serey.
-
- I've got nothing better to do
- Reactions: 5
- Posts: 70
- Joined: Wed Oct 24, 2018 4:09 am
In the Southern region of China there are no martial arts that resemble Muay Thai. What I have been able to discover (so far) is that all martial art styles in Southern China, including the Xishuangbanna prefecture, resemble Chinese Kung Fu styles. I have also not found any related martial art among any of the other Tai tribes in other countries. So far, only Laos, Cambodia, Thailand, and Myanmar have shown to have similar fighting styles. In the North of Malaysia they practice a related martial art. I have also heard that there is a similar art in Vietnam, but I have been unable to find any information so far.bdbsvay wrote: ↑Sat Mar 27, 2021 11:45 amThanks! I don't know anything about Burmese history but would definitely be interested in hearing what you're able to uncover about this 12th century temple. So it sounds like with the exception of lethwei, Burmese martial arts finds its basis in Chinese rather than Indian or native SE Asian martial arts.
Do you know of any styles of martial arts practiced in the Xishuangbanna prefecture? My understanding is that's the area from where where the Tai/Lao people originate. I've seen pictures of the architecture there and it's eerily similar to what's found in present day Thailand and Cambodia - from the tiered roofs to the naga balustrades. I'd be kinda surprised if they don't also practice something similar to muay thai/pradal serey.
I hope to find more info. It would be awesome if we could find more evidence of related styles in other countries, or among the other tribes related to Thai or Khmer people.