The paper is written by Dr. U-tain Wongsathit from Silpakorn University. If anyone is interested in reading it and share your opinions feel free to comment.
https://www.academia.edu/10245567/The_K ... t_Cambodia
The Ksatriyas of Ancient Cambodia
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Very interesting! The use of ancient titles gives us some insight how ancient Khmer society was structured. Very interesting to read how important the warrior-class was in ancient Cambodia, and how the warrior culture of the ancient Khmer was represented within their religious mainframe. The most interesting thing I found is the way that important Ksatriya rulers or officials were bestowed Sanskrit names/titles in exchange for their service, and that Brahmin priests and Ksatriya were from same families, which is different to the customs in India.kke802 wrote: ↑Fri Apr 02, 2021 9:12 amThe paper is written by Dr. U-tain Wongsathit from Silpakorn University. If anyone is interested in reading it and share your opinions feel free to comment.
https://www.academia.edu/10245567/The_K ... t_Cambodia
In 1431, when Angkor was conquered by Ayutthaya, the ancient royal documents tell of the Khmer communities being deported to Ayutthaya from Angkor. The titles and the names of the Khmer people captured, indicate that the Khmer people from Angkor were military personnel, and brought over to Ayutthaya to fight for the Ayutthayan throne. It were the Khmer people from the surrounding rural provinces who managed to reconquer Angkor from Ayutthaya some years after. It shows how in the 15th century, the warrior-culture still defined the ancient Khmer people as a whole, and that they could beat any army when united.
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So what's the big revelation here? Invading armies have traditionally carried away the artisans, dancers and manpower from countries they have conquered for at least a thousand years.
It's annoying to constantly see this dumb narrative about Angkor falling in 1431. The Khmer Empire did suffer a big defeat then but they still defeated Attuyatha a few years afterwards. The decline of the Khmer Empire was much more gradual than some sources might contend.
It's annoying to constantly see this dumb narrative about Angkor falling in 1431. The Khmer Empire did suffer a big defeat then but they still defeated Attuyatha a few years afterwards. The decline of the Khmer Empire was much more gradual than some sources might contend.
Romantic Cambodia is dead and gone. It's with McKinley in the grave.
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I think you put too much value into the fact I described how they were conquered in 1431. The decline of the Khmer empire was much more gradual than sources might contend? Yes, I know that. The decline happened until late in the 19th century.Lucky Lucan wrote: ↑Sun Apr 04, 2021 12:04 amSo what's the big revelation here? Invading armies have traditionally carried away the artisans, dancers and manpower from countries they have conquered for at least a thousand years.
It's annoying to constantly see this dumb narrative about Angkor falling in 1431. The Khmer Empire did suffer a big defeat then but they still defeated Attuyatha a few years afterwards. The decline of the Khmer Empire was much more gradual than some sources might contend.
We are talking about the Khmer nature of ancient South East Asia. In regards to the conquest of 1431, it is only interesting to know that ancient Khmer culture was regarded as the most sacred culture in regards to military. The time of the 15th century is interesting in regard to the paper that was shared, because both documents tell of the Khmer elite society being a rigid warrior-culture with the Khmer warriors as an entwined element of the elite religious priesthood and royalty, which was still Khmer in nature in the time that Ayutthaya arrose as the new military superpower.
Indeed, it was customary to relocate prisoners to new locations and work for the new royal court for thousands of years. However, it was not customary that conquered troops were awarded with important military functions within the kingdom. In the case of ancient Khmer people, they were awarded with elite, military roles.
So it's just interesting to know that Khmer people from Angkor were the elite military of both Cambodia and Thailand in the 15th century, and in no way was I implying that it meant the end of Angkor or something.
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That's interesting so thanks, I'll look into it. One contention that hasn't received much coverage or too many studies is this:
In French Indochina, Vietnamese were prized by the colonial administration for their analytical skills and perhaps for their higher levels of education. Everyone who has ever studied Cambodian history would understand that the French use of Vietnamese clerics would have caused some animosity.
Anyway, that's not my point. What I have heard is that Khmers were often employed by the French administration all over Laos, Vietnam and Cambodia in security positions. They were known as the police force of Indochina, and famous for their cruel but effective methods. If anyone else can add to this do. It might be just folklore but I have reason to believe it is true.
In French Indochina, Vietnamese were prized by the colonial administration for their analytical skills and perhaps for their higher levels of education. Everyone who has ever studied Cambodian history would understand that the French use of Vietnamese clerics would have caused some animosity.
Anyway, that's not my point. What I have heard is that Khmers were often employed by the French administration all over Laos, Vietnam and Cambodia in security positions. They were known as the police force of Indochina, and famous for their cruel but effective methods. If anyone else can add to this do. It might be just folklore but I have reason to believe it is true.
Romantic Cambodia is dead and gone. It's with McKinley in the grave.
I read Four Lost Cities: A Secret History of the Urban Age by Annalee Newitz recently. It includes a superb up-to-date account of scholarship on the 'non-fall' of Angkor. She shows how it gradually faded away - with droughts and floods gradually overwhelming the ability to maintain the hydraulics, over time the common folk just fucked off back to their villages and the jungle to resume the lifestyles they led before being press-ganged into corvee labour. Then the court basically decided that with the recent increase in sea-trade around SE Asia, Phnom Penh was a better location and they fucked off too. It's not history as we were taught it in school, but it makes far better sense of the evidence.
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I never heard of Khmer police officers being used in Laos and Vietnam, but it wouldn't surprise me. Every colony in the world seems to have had a local unit comprised of local and cruel forces to do the dirty work against other local populations. I would be shocked if the French did not do the same in Indo-China.Lucky Lucan wrote: ↑Sun Apr 04, 2021 1:22 amThat's interesting so thanks, I'll look into it. One contention that hasn't received much coverage or too many studies is this:
In French Indochina, Vietnamese were prized by the colonial administration for their analytical skills and perhaps for their higher levels of education. Everyone who has ever studied Cambodian history would understand that the French use of Vietnamese clerics would have caused some animosity.
Anyway, that's not my point. What I have heard is that Khmers were often employed by the French administration all over Laos, Vietnam and Cambodia in security positions. They were known as the police force of Indochina, and famous for their cruel but effective methods. If anyone else can add to this do. It might be just folklore but I have reason to believe it is true.
Considering the military nature of Khmer culture at the time, and considering the French had access to the troops of the Cambodian military that only shortly before fought for decades in devastating wars against Vietnamese or Siamese troops, it wouldn't surprise me if the Khmer people were the preferred troops to employ in Indo-China. Cambodian troops were also used by the French against other local Cambodian populations who had a long history of rebelling against different factions of the Cambodian government.
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Yes, the historical evidence shows us that Angkor no longer was regarded as the capital from a specific time frame. According to Chinese documents, the capital was described as in the south somewhere late in the 14th century. We know from royal chronicles of Ayutthaya that say that Angkor was conquered at the end of the 14th century, but there is no evidence to support these claims. It could explain why the capital was moved. With the many roads leading to Angkor from all the different countries, it was only logical that they moved the capital, also to profit from sea trade at the coast.guest9 wrote: ↑Sun Apr 04, 2021 1:58 amI read Four Lost Cities: A Secret History of the Urban Age by Annalee Newitz recently. It includes a superb up-to-date account of scholarship on the 'non-fall' of Angkor. She shows how it gradually faded away - with droughts and floods gradually overwhelming the ability to maintain the hydraulics, over time the common folk just fucked off back to their villages and the jungle to resume the lifestyles they led before being press-ganged into corvee labour. Then the court basically decided that with the recent increase in sea-trade around SE Asia, Phnom Penh was a better location and they fucked off too. It's not history as we were taught it in school, but it makes far better sense of the evidence.
In 1431 when Angkor was conquered by Ayutthaya (from which we have multiple evidence sources), we know now that Angkor at that time was a military powerhouse. The troops who could have been a threat to Ayutthaya were conquered and relocated to Ayutthaya, and added as elite warriors to the already powerful military. We can assume that the Khmer king from Supan Buri, named Yat, was trying to create his own Khmer military power house in Angkor, and then later created a new army among primarily the Khmer people of Battambang and Phnom Penh (then named Catormukh). Interestingly, many of these troops became the new military elite of Cambodia, also employed in Angkor, according to inscriptions. What happened to the Khmer troops from Angkor that were relocated to Ayutthaya is not known. It's possible they just accepted their fate and became part of Ayutthaya
The Cambodian king in the 16th century revived Angkor as a religious temple again, and so did his successor. We know from the historical information that Cambodia launched several military expeditions into Siamese territory and captured many people which they moved back to Cambodia.
Then in 1593, king Naresuan conquered Cambodia. Also king Naresuan made sure to use the Khmer soldier from Angkor in his armies, . We know from ancient documents that Naresuan created numerous Khmer settlements in Thailand. Also, the Khmer inscriptions of the late 16th century and early 17th century show that Khmer people were being employed by the royal court of Siam, most likely for military purposes, with the high officials of Angkor now awarded with important Siamese titles. We know from an ancient French report that Muay Thai was displayed at Naresuan's court, in my personal mind no doubt demonstrated by the Khmer troops from Angkor.
The last time Angkor came in action for the royalty was in the 19th century. There was an inscription made by the royal court telling of a gathering of different armies, lead by different generals all going into war with the Siamese. Angkor is now named as 'Siema Rapa' for the first time, and mentioned as one of the regions that fights together with the rest of the troops of the kingdom. They would not win their battle. Some decades later we find a new inscription in Angkor, telling of a joined Cambodian/Siamese expedition from Siam to have the rebelling areas under new control of a Khmer prince from Siam.
In the 19th century, the Khmer people of Angkor were still employed as guards. In Angkor, they were famous to be royal elephant guardians (in ancient times a very respected role). The French writer (I think Baradat, but not sure) tells of the chiefs of Angkor being able to round up a vast army of troops if they needed to. The people would be scattered around the area, but jump into action whenever they are called upon. That's how much they revered their chiefs and their call to war.
According to another French writer, the people of Angkor who were named Samré were big and tattooed elite warriors. A Khmer writer also addressed how the Samré were the best warriors of Cambodia. Legend says that no army dared to invade Angkor, and indeed, even though Cambodia was totally ravaged by Vietnamese and Thai armies in the 19th century, Angkor was left alone. There was only one incident.
There was a Siamese king who wanted to transport a temple stone by stone from Angkor to Siam. The people from this expedition who dared to touch the temple were all killed. I think this happened in the late 19th century. It is the last time that the Khmer people of Angkor came in action.
Why I tell all this information? Because it is heavily underestimated how important Angkor really was in regards to military power. Whenever the temple of Angkor was revived in religious importance by a Khmer king, it immediately coincided with the creation of large Khmer armies and big conquests.
Outside of the military function of Angkor as a region, the decline of the city was very gradual. Angkor was never abandoned. There is an interesting paper done on the culture of Angkor and its communities, and it basically shows how the modern communities are actually still practicing many ancient customs which descended from ancient times of Angkor. It is in French: Les Habitants d'Angkor
Angkor as a region was very important for the Cambodian throne. I read in another French book how the king in the 19th century was always delighted to look up the Khmer people in Angkor, and that it was customary to do so every year during a great ceremony. There are also inscriptions telling of these royal meetings. The Khmer king had to stop the riual, because Siem Reap became Siamese territory. This also caused the ceremonnial ritual to cease, and Siem Reap now fully lost its importance in regards to the royalty.
In the 19th century, the region was impoverished and the people had little recollection of history. They still remembered how the people of Angkor had always been warriors, and they were still employed in the center by the government in service of the Siamese royalty until they became independent from Siam, but dependent on France.
Here's an interesting story of a Khmer civil servant working for the French in the north east and Laos.Lucky Lucan wrote: ↑Sun Apr 04, 2021 1:22 am
Anyway, that's not my point. What I have heard is that Khmers were often employed by the French administration all over Laos, Vietnam and Cambodia in security positions. They were known as the police force of Indochina, and famous for their cruel but effective methods. If anyone else can add to this do. It might be just folklore but I have reason to believe it is true.
https://toyo-bunko.repo.nii.ac.jp/?acti ... 4dflq2a616
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