I found this a bit ago and have been listening to it on the train, it's really really long but goes way beyong the Khmer Rouge "story" we all know. The guy goes into ancient Khmer kings, french colonialism, marxist theory, he's done 14 episodes and is in 1955. Not a quick listen but it's something that really goes for the full picture. The first episode is a basic Khmer Rouge podscast so give it a listen or not but the other 13 are a real great listen for understanding 20th century Cambodian history.
https://www.shadowsofutopia.com/
Shadows of Utopia: Great deep dive podcast into the Khmer Rouge and Cambodian history.
- ÖzBeg Khan
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- Lucky Lucan
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He's a regular contributor to the Reddit circle-jerk called "Ask Historians". He makes some good points but I have spotted numerous fallacies and propaganda that he repeats in his writings. Anyone who disagrees will be banned.
Romantic Cambodia is dead and gone. It's with McKinley in the grave.
- ÖzBeg Khan
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Yeah I saw him on Ask Historians and gave it a listen. I know that place can be a bit to Orthodox PC for it's own good about things like the Spanish conquest or the famouse black people in Bohemia answer but I haven't seen anything with his postings that I would take issue with. Any examples you can think of? I'm far from a southeast Asia history expert.Lucky Lucan wrote: ↑Sun Dec 26, 2021 10:19 pmHe's a regular contributor to the Reddit circle-jerk called "Ask Historians". He makes some good points but I have spotted numerous fallacies and propaganda that he repeats in his writings. Anyone who disagrees will be banned.
Thanks Ozbeg. I need some more audio books/podcasts so I will give it a listen.
And LL I'd also be interested in hearing about what you have to say.
And LL I'd also be interested in hearing about what you have to say.
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If it means anything to you I really hate "ask historians" too haha. Thought it would be a useful space to share the podcast as I didn't have any social media presence etc... the behind the scenes stuff you see as a so called 'flaired user' on that sub is really over the top as well. I tend to answer less and less unless the question is really interesting / I have time.Lucky Lucan wrote: ↑Sun Dec 26, 2021 10:19 pmHe's a regular contributor to the Reddit circle-jerk called "Ask Historians". He makes some good points but I have spotted numerous fallacies and propaganda that he repeats in his writings. Anyone who disagrees will be banned.
I am curious to know what you consider to be fallacies and propaganda that I am repeating?
I would be lying if I said I haven't come across an 'angle' that I consider to be most 'true' about Cambodian history / DK history... generally I agree with scholars like David Chandler (my former mentor) and Philip Short on the big issues that have a kind of 'this side or that side' of the fence argument. For example, I don't really care for Kiernan's views on the subject, like his suggestion that the KR were racially obsessed to the same extent as say... the Nazis. I do consider the KR to be a communist (inspired at least) movement, which some people don't agree with either. I also don't see US foreign policy to be the end of the discussion when discussing the rise and fall of the KR or the most persuasive argument as 'why they did what they did', it is far more complicated than simply US = bad, in my opinion.
I guess that other 'big one' that I have taken a stance on is the use of the term 'genocide' to describe the vast majority of the crimes that the KR committed, I tend to think 'crimes against humanity' is a better fit, except for a couple of examples such as the treatment of the Vietnamese and Cham minorities.
Are these the kinds of things that come to mind or something else? Always happy to talk about this kind of stuff with other people who are engaged in the subject !
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Hi, thanks for your reply. I had a look over your pieces and couldn't really see anything that seemed inaccurate so I apologize as I must have confused you with some other poster. My comment was more directed at that sub in general.
For example there's a common theme now that "The US/CIA created/ funded the Khmer Rouge genocide". There is no doubt that they did receive political and sometimes material support from the west after the Vietnamese invasion, but little to nothing to suggest they received any support prior to that. Point that out on Reddit and you'll get directed to a Wiki page and downvoted to hell. Askhistorians don't seem too interested in clearing this up either.
Anyway, good luck with your work.
For example there's a common theme now that "The US/CIA created/ funded the Khmer Rouge genocide". There is no doubt that they did receive political and sometimes material support from the west after the Vietnamese invasion, but little to nothing to suggest they received any support prior to that. Point that out on Reddit and you'll get directed to a Wiki page and downvoted to hell. Askhistorians don't seem too interested in clearing this up either.
Anyway, good luck with your work.
Romantic Cambodia is dead and gone. It's with McKinley in the grave.
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no problem ! yeah a lot of what goes on on that sub, and lets face it a lot of reddit generally, is annoying to read.
I 100% agree with you on the US / Cambodia / KR thing. It is why I don't like reading anything about Cambodia on Reddit... someone for the 1000th time will share a photo of Tuol Sleng or the Killing Fields and you will have a hundred people saying "did you know the US actually supported the Khmer Rouge??!!" and there is not enough time nor do I have enough patience to try and explain the reality. That is one of the reasons I started the podcast actually, to try and give people a slightly deeper explanation than a lot of what you find online or even from just reading one book or seeing one or two films.
I did try and go into a lot of this detail, about the US role that is, in one of the last bigger answers I did on the sub: but I think the couple of hours I spent writing it were not worth the... maybe ten people who read it.
Anyway, I'm glad you don't think I'm spreading propaganda ! I thought you might have thought my answers saying it wasn't all the US' fault etc etc was what you might have been considering pro-US propaganda and fallacies haha
All the best (and hey maybe you'd like the show!) haha.
As the original poster said, the first episode is very familiar territory to anyone who knows... well anything about what happened, potentially even a bit of the next few that follow if you know your Angkor as well. But after that I've gotten into some territory that I think is really interesting and even Camodiaphiles might find out something new!
I 100% agree with you on the US / Cambodia / KR thing. It is why I don't like reading anything about Cambodia on Reddit... someone for the 1000th time will share a photo of Tuol Sleng or the Killing Fields and you will have a hundred people saying "did you know the US actually supported the Khmer Rouge??!!" and there is not enough time nor do I have enough patience to try and explain the reality. That is one of the reasons I started the podcast actually, to try and give people a slightly deeper explanation than a lot of what you find online or even from just reading one book or seeing one or two films.
I did try and go into a lot of this detail, about the US role that is, in one of the last bigger answers I did on the sub: but I think the couple of hours I spent writing it were not worth the... maybe ten people who read it.
Anyway, I'm glad you don't think I'm spreading propaganda ! I thought you might have thought my answers saying it wasn't all the US' fault etc etc was what you might have been considering pro-US propaganda and fallacies haha
All the best (and hey maybe you'd like the show!) haha.
As the original poster said, the first episode is very familiar territory to anyone who knows... well anything about what happened, potentially even a bit of the next few that follow if you know your Angkor as well. But after that I've gotten into some territory that I think is really interesting and even Camodiaphiles might find out something new!
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Thank you for sharing !ÖzBeg Khan wrote: ↑Sun Dec 26, 2021 3:53 pmI found this a bit ago and have been listening to it on the train, it's really really long but goes way beyong the Khmer Rouge "story" we all know. The guy goes into ancient Khmer kings, french colonialism, marxist theory, he's done 14 episodes and is in 1955. Not a quick listen but it's something that really goes for the full picture. The first episode is a basic Khmer Rouge podscast so give it a listen or not but the other 13 are a real great listen for understanding 20th century Cambodian history.
https://www.shadowsofutopia.com/
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