India 'attacks rebels in Myanmar'
- Miguelito
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India 'attacks rebels in Myanmar'
The title grabbed my attention, but it appears that the Myanmar authorities were on board. It sure sets a bold new precedent for India though.
Inida 'attacks rebels in Myanmar'
Inida 'attacks rebels in Myanmar'
Who is even arming these rebels groups? They've been fighting for decades in Myanmar and Manipur and yet they haven't exhausted their ammo. The Republic of the Union of Myanmar supposedly enjoys cordials relations with China and India and they mostly piss off the Thais because their conflicts sometimes stretch into Thai territory.
The rebel groups generate serious income by producing opium and amphetamines but who is sourcing them for weapons and how have they been able to get away with it for so many years.
The rebel groups generate serious income by producing opium and amphetamines but who is sourcing them for weapons and how have they been able to get away with it for so many years.
Paging tuktukfish....Harold wrote:Who is even arming these rebels groups? They've been fighting for decades in Myanmar and Manipur and yet they haven't exhausted their ammo. The Republic of the Union of Myanmar supposedly enjoys cordials relations with China and India and they mostly piss off the Thais because their conflicts sometimes stretch into Thai territory.
The rebel groups generate serious income by producing opium and amphetamines but who is sourcing them for weapons and how have they been able to get away with it for so many years.
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One can reasonably assume that the attack inside Myanmar was a direct response to the successful insurgent attack on Indian army forces which occured last week. http://www.tripurainfoway.com/news-deta ... anner.html
This article discusses the "Myanmar angle" http://www.rediff.com/news/column/what- ... 150609.htm Keep in mind that "Nagaland" is spread across parts of Manipur and Naga State in Myanmar.
There have not been many such attacks in recent years, so you can hardly say that they have been fighting for decades, with regard to the Nagaland separatists, when it has been decades between attacks.
Don't confuse this insurgency with the essentially ethnic-based wars which have been plaguing Myanmar for decades. These are essentially funded via wholesale drug manufacture and distribution. One might suspect that the Naga rebels also fund themselves through these means.
Then there's this, "according to the December 3 2014 issue of Eastern Monitor Kohima, 24 per cent salaries of its one lakh employees is being deducted by Naga political groups. Also a shop owner from Chennai, now married in Kohima, said terror groups come and negotiate tax to be paid. In her book War and Taxes, Rakhee Bhattacharya calls it a 'revolutionary tax'. Local sources say annual budget of NSCN-IM is over Rs 10,000 crore." http://www.rediff.com/news/column/what- ... 150609.htm
This article discusses the "Myanmar angle" http://www.rediff.com/news/column/what- ... 150609.htm Keep in mind that "Nagaland" is spread across parts of Manipur and Naga State in Myanmar.
There have not been many such attacks in recent years, so you can hardly say that they have been fighting for decades, with regard to the Nagaland separatists, when it has been decades between attacks.
Don't confuse this insurgency with the essentially ethnic-based wars which have been plaguing Myanmar for decades. These are essentially funded via wholesale drug manufacture and distribution. One might suspect that the Naga rebels also fund themselves through these means.
Then there's this, "according to the December 3 2014 issue of Eastern Monitor Kohima, 24 per cent salaries of its one lakh employees is being deducted by Naga political groups. Also a shop owner from Chennai, now married in Kohima, said terror groups come and negotiate tax to be paid. In her book War and Taxes, Rakhee Bhattacharya calls it a 'revolutionary tax'. Local sources say annual budget of NSCN-IM is over Rs 10,000 crore." http://www.rediff.com/news/column/what- ... 150609.htm
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FR do you think there is any solution to end ethnic strife in Myanmar besides dissolving the union and allowing for the formation of sovereign ethnic states? I can't see any reason how the Shan, for example, could be worse off if they were granted their independence.
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Well, the Shan in particular would be much better off as the progressive Shan economy heavily subsidises the great unwashed masses below them to the south-west. The Shan have in effect, it should be understood, essentially integrated themselves so thoroughly into the upper echelons of Myanmar society, throughout the military as well as in industry, that they very much call the shots these days. A simple graphic reminder of this is the "new" (incorporated while I was living there) national flag of Myanmar which is basically the same as the Shan flag with a slight difference. The Shan flag is certainly the only ethnic flag displyed with impunity in Yangon
Shan State flag
Myanmar national flag
The Irrawady watershed, Bamar proper, is good for growing rice and not much else. It has a large pliant workforce who amount to factory fodder, but many of the factories themselves are owned by Shan interests. They are sharp business people and have a distinctly industrious mindset quite different, without painting too broad a brush, from the Bamar majority. Most of the richest folk I met in Myanmar, and in my position I managed to rub shoulders with the elite, were Shan with a few Kachin thrown in. So, while there are still large and viable insurgent armies in Shan, from what I understand, they are not in a terrible hurry to separate from the Myanmar state.
The Kachin, on the other hand, are a wholly different kettle of fish. They so detest everything Bamar that they became Christian and dispensed with the Burmese alphabet in order to further separate themselves from the "savages" of the Irrawady Delta.
Of course, the origins of the separatist movements date back to the Panglong Agreement in 1947, when the ethnic/linguistic states which made up the former British colony of Burma agreed to the Union with the understanding that they would decide in a plebiscite ten years on whether to remain in the Union. Although this right to conduct a plebiscite is not expressly stated in the Panglong Agreement itself, it was in the nations first constitution, as drafted by Bogyoke Aung San himself.
http://www.shanland.mongloi.org/index.p ... Itemid=265
The murder of Aung San in 1947 shortly after the signing of the Panglong Agreement meant that the constitution, which was still a work in progress at the time of Aung San's assassination, was rushed through the newly founded parliament in order to try to establish some sort of credibility in the unstable government. Subsequently, the spirit of the Panglong Agreement was never formally adhered to. By the time 1958 came along, when the plebiscite should have been conducted, the Bamar -who at the time held the strictest control over the military- refused to allow an organised plebiscite process, although informal polls were conducted in a few of the states. Armed rebellion amongst the various ethnic nationalities flared up and, after the civilian government faltered the army began directing their own operations, in 1962 a coup d'etat overthrew the unpopular civilian government.
Since then then Tatmadaw (the name of the Myanmar Armed Forces) has tried more or less successfully to suppress the various ethnic minorities, often favouring one group over another, using 'divide and conquer' strategies learned well from their former colonial masters. The Tatmadaw, despite inflicting horrendous impositions wherever they venture, has never yet managed to subdue all of these numerous groups at one time as while they are busy hitting one nationality, whack-a-mole style, another mob manages to regroup and pop their heads up. That is a simplistic way to look at the situation in the country, because a lot of it has to do with how keenly each ethnic minority feels its own particular burdens of oppression at any time, but as an analogy it works as well as any.
Will the troubles ever end? Hmm... it took the Irish 300 years or so to come close to anything remotely resembling an accommodation with their English invaders. And I don't see an end to the Palestinian situation any time soon. We are, after all, talking about people defending what they rightfully see as their homelands. Of course, there is one instructive, though extreme, regional example for those patriots to learn from. Vietnam defended itself against the French and then the Americans, but those battles pale into insignificance in the face of 4000 years of opposition to Chinese incursions.
So I guess it's safe to assume that no, this shitfight ain't gonna end anytime soon...
Shan State flag
Myanmar national flag
The Irrawady watershed, Bamar proper, is good for growing rice and not much else. It has a large pliant workforce who amount to factory fodder, but many of the factories themselves are owned by Shan interests. They are sharp business people and have a distinctly industrious mindset quite different, without painting too broad a brush, from the Bamar majority. Most of the richest folk I met in Myanmar, and in my position I managed to rub shoulders with the elite, were Shan with a few Kachin thrown in. So, while there are still large and viable insurgent armies in Shan, from what I understand, they are not in a terrible hurry to separate from the Myanmar state.
The Kachin, on the other hand, are a wholly different kettle of fish. They so detest everything Bamar that they became Christian and dispensed with the Burmese alphabet in order to further separate themselves from the "savages" of the Irrawady Delta.
Of course, the origins of the separatist movements date back to the Panglong Agreement in 1947, when the ethnic/linguistic states which made up the former British colony of Burma agreed to the Union with the understanding that they would decide in a plebiscite ten years on whether to remain in the Union. Although this right to conduct a plebiscite is not expressly stated in the Panglong Agreement itself, it was in the nations first constitution, as drafted by Bogyoke Aung San himself.
http://www.shanland.mongloi.org/index.p ... Itemid=265
The murder of Aung San in 1947 shortly after the signing of the Panglong Agreement meant that the constitution, which was still a work in progress at the time of Aung San's assassination, was rushed through the newly founded parliament in order to try to establish some sort of credibility in the unstable government. Subsequently, the spirit of the Panglong Agreement was never formally adhered to. By the time 1958 came along, when the plebiscite should have been conducted, the Bamar -who at the time held the strictest control over the military- refused to allow an organised plebiscite process, although informal polls were conducted in a few of the states. Armed rebellion amongst the various ethnic nationalities flared up and, after the civilian government faltered the army began directing their own operations, in 1962 a coup d'etat overthrew the unpopular civilian government.
Since then then Tatmadaw (the name of the Myanmar Armed Forces) has tried more or less successfully to suppress the various ethnic minorities, often favouring one group over another, using 'divide and conquer' strategies learned well from their former colonial masters. The Tatmadaw, despite inflicting horrendous impositions wherever they venture, has never yet managed to subdue all of these numerous groups at one time as while they are busy hitting one nationality, whack-a-mole style, another mob manages to regroup and pop their heads up. That is a simplistic way to look at the situation in the country, because a lot of it has to do with how keenly each ethnic minority feels its own particular burdens of oppression at any time, but as an analogy it works as well as any.
Will the troubles ever end? Hmm... it took the Irish 300 years or so to come close to anything remotely resembling an accommodation with their English invaders. And I don't see an end to the Palestinian situation any time soon. We are, after all, talking about people defending what they rightfully see as their homelands. Of course, there is one instructive, though extreme, regional example for those patriots to learn from. Vietnam defended itself against the French and then the Americans, but those battles pale into insignificance in the face of 4000 years of opposition to Chinese incursions.
So I guess it's safe to assume that no, this shitfight ain't gonna end anytime soon...
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My old plumber was telling me the other day how he used to cross the border with his brother in law, a big wheel in the Thai special forces. The plumber was ex army and advised the hill tribe on tactics. This was back in the late seventies and they would have been Karen?
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When I was there, I was often assured that the days under U Ne Win were incalculably better; then again, I would often come across (metaphorically, not literally) older people who would tell me how under British rule, there was less corruption.
There were also the peeps who hated the Tatmadaw (myself included) and yearned for 'independence'. But independence from whom? There is no such thing as 'independence'. For every insurgent, there is always an even more cruel, crude and evil supplanter.
There were also the peeps who hated the Tatmadaw (myself included) and yearned for 'independence'. But independence from whom? There is no such thing as 'independence'. For every insurgent, there is always an even more cruel, crude and evil supplanter.
'History is a set of lies agreed upon.'
Attributed to Napoleon
Attributed to Napoleon
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Same deal the cia had with LaosHarold wrote:Who is even arming these rebels groups? They've been fighting for decades in Myanmar and Manipur and yet they haven't exhausted their ammo. The Republic of the Union of Myanmar supposedly enjoys cordials relations with China and India and they mostly piss off the Thais because their conflicts sometimes stretch into Thai territory.
The rebel groups generate serious income by producing opium and amphetamines but who is sourcing them for weapons and how have they been able to get away with it for so many years.
drugs for guns
"We are turning into a nation of whimpering slaves to Fear—fear of war, fear of poverty, fear of random terrorism, or suddenly getting locked up in a military detention camp on vague charges of being a Terrorist sympathizer." HST
Are you saying that the CIA, or some other intelligence agency for that matter, is providing weapons to rebels in Myanmar in exchange for drugs? I doubt the US has any dealings with them considering how much the DEA wanted to take Khun Sa down.
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didn't say the dea were providing gunsHarold wrote:Are you saying that the CIA, or some other intelligence agency for that matter, is providing weapons to rebels in Myanmar in exchange for drugs? I doubt the US has any dealings with them considering how much the DEA wanted to take Khun Sa down.
but its the same deal
just need to establish who profits from the drugs sales and an unstable area nearby their border.
as i reside in Thailand and dont want to get hit with a slander charge...
use ur head
"We are turning into a nation of whimpering slaves to Fear—fear of war, fear of poverty, fear of random terrorism, or suddenly getting locked up in a military detention camp on vague charges of being a Terrorist sympathizer." HST
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Oh, the CIA are absolutely, 100% in league with the ruling junta. No question about it. They exchange crisp new $100 bills in exchange for the drugs, though, not weapons so much as the Tatmadaw buys almost all of its weaponry from the Chinese, as do most of the insurgent groups.
If you think the US is not complicit with the Myanmar authorities, please explain the following...
Former US Special Forces soldier swims from US Ambassador's residence to the home of Aung San Suu Kyi "undetected", just in time for her to have extra detention sanctions against her to stop her predicted participation in the forthcoming general election...
http://www.newsweek.com/how-john-yettaw ... ence-78637
Here's a wikileaked cable detailing the US Embassy's take on things...
https://www.wikileaks.org/plusd/cables/ ... 264_a.html
Lo and behold, a few weeks later after ASSK had been sentenced, Yettaw is released after the intercession of a leading US Senator, who just happens to sit on the Congressional committee for Asian affairs. (Correction: Webb was chair of the Senate Foreign Relations Subcommittee on East Asia http://www.thenewamerican.com/world-new ... nmar-burma )
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2009/a ... s-prisoner
WHO PICKS UP YETTAW IN A CHARTERED US MILITARY PLANE and repatriates him back to his home in butt-fuck Missouri. To no charges and no media coverage in the US...
http://www.sianews.com/modules.php?name ... e&sid=3770
You try that and find out how long you spend in Insein prison.
But it is all part of the long-running mutual co-operation between the junta and black ops. Or, as a guy I knew who worked in the US Embassy said at the time, "Business as usual".
If you think the US is not complicit with the Myanmar authorities, please explain the following...
Former US Special Forces soldier swims from US Ambassador's residence to the home of Aung San Suu Kyi "undetected", just in time for her to have extra detention sanctions against her to stop her predicted participation in the forthcoming general election...
http://www.newsweek.com/how-john-yettaw ... ence-78637
Here's a wikileaked cable detailing the US Embassy's take on things...
https://www.wikileaks.org/plusd/cables/ ... 264_a.html
Lo and behold, a few weeks later after ASSK had been sentenced, Yettaw is released after the intercession of a leading US Senator, who just happens to sit on the Congressional committee for Asian affairs. (Correction: Webb was chair of the Senate Foreign Relations Subcommittee on East Asia http://www.thenewamerican.com/world-new ... nmar-burma )
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2009/a ... s-prisoner
WHO PICKS UP YETTAW IN A CHARTERED US MILITARY PLANE and repatriates him back to his home in butt-fuck Missouri. To no charges and no media coverage in the US...
http://www.sianews.com/modules.php?name ... e&sid=3770
You try that and find out how long you spend in Insein prison.
But it is all part of the long-running mutual co-operation between the junta and black ops. Or, as a guy I knew who worked in the US Embassy said at the time, "Business as usual".
Last edited by Falcon Randwick on Thu Jun 18, 2015 12:54 am, edited 1 time in total.
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This is great FR but where does it say Yettaw was special forces?
The cable says he was allegedly a Vietnam vet but he was born in 1955 which makes that very unlikely.
Wikipedia claims he only served a year and that News article says he was a bus driver. He looks like a semi-sane religo drifter from what I can see.
The cable says he was allegedly a Vietnam vet but he was born in 1955 which makes that very unlikely.
Wikipedia claims he only served a year and that News article says he was a bus driver. He looks like a semi-sane religo drifter from what I can see.
Haha - my money’s on Playboy
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I was told at the time by a US Embassy worker in Yangon that John Yettaw was ex-Special Forces. I've looked, but can't find any reference to him being so, but he does admit to pulling off " military-crawl" to avoid the attentions of some Myanmar soldiers...
http://edition.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/asiap ... ref=nextin
...but this is a guy who simply can't keep his story straight, "Burmese security officials let him. "I don't know why they didn't stop me," he says. "The man with the AK-47 shook my hand and let me in."
http://www.newsweek.com/how-john-yettaw ... ence-78637
Or maybe he straightened his story up, as the CNN story with the "military-crawl" is dated eight days after the Newsweek story which says the Myanmar military guards welcomed him. Hmm...
There is this, in the Newsweek story, which tallies with the rumours bouncing around Yangon in the wake (don't pardon the pun) of his second swim to ASSK's house... " Yettaw declined to say where he initially got the idea to visit Suu Kyi by crossing the lake. But according to one Western diplomat, who requested anonymity in order to speak freely, intelligence reports show that senior Burmese officials were told to come up with a way to keep the Lady incarcerated, as her May 27 release date loomed. Around a week before Yettaw's second swim, this person says, two men posing as members of the reform-minded National League for Democracy allegedly approached Yettaw in Mae Sot, an untidy border town in Thailand, and told him that the Lady was ready to receive him. (The Burmese government did not respond to requests for comment.)"
He was turned around at his first attempt, again according to scuttlebutt, because the maximum sentence, by law, that Aung San Suu Kyi could have received would have meant that she would have been freed in time to contest the *ahem* election...
http://edition.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/asiap ... ref=nextin
...but this is a guy who simply can't keep his story straight, "Burmese security officials let him. "I don't know why they didn't stop me," he says. "The man with the AK-47 shook my hand and let me in."
http://www.newsweek.com/how-john-yettaw ... ence-78637
Or maybe he straightened his story up, as the CNN story with the "military-crawl" is dated eight days after the Newsweek story which says the Myanmar military guards welcomed him. Hmm...
There is this, in the Newsweek story, which tallies with the rumours bouncing around Yangon in the wake (don't pardon the pun) of his second swim to ASSK's house... " Yettaw declined to say where he initially got the idea to visit Suu Kyi by crossing the lake. But according to one Western diplomat, who requested anonymity in order to speak freely, intelligence reports show that senior Burmese officials were told to come up with a way to keep the Lady incarcerated, as her May 27 release date loomed. Around a week before Yettaw's second swim, this person says, two men posing as members of the reform-minded National League for Democracy allegedly approached Yettaw in Mae Sot, an untidy border town in Thailand, and told him that the Lady was ready to receive him. (The Burmese government did not respond to requests for comment.)"
He was turned around at his first attempt, again according to scuttlebutt, because the maximum sentence, by law, that Aung San Suu Kyi could have received would have meant that she would have been freed in time to contest the *ahem* election...
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