Bitcoins worth more than gold
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- MerkinMaker
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Following on from my previous post, another interesting way to frame it is this.
Currently the market is giving 10-1 odds on Bitcoin at some point reaching market cap parity with Gold.
A year ago you could get 50-1.
A 2/3 years back it was around 100-1.
Wild short term fluctuations on the back of weekend day traders getting scalped by the algorithms is a side show.
Currently the market is giving 10-1 odds on Bitcoin at some point reaching market cap parity with Gold.
A year ago you could get 50-1.
A 2/3 years back it was around 100-1.
Wild short term fluctuations on the back of weekend day traders getting scalped by the algorithms is a side show.
These odds make no sense. How can people talk about Bitcoin market cap equalling gold when Bitcoin is finite and they are constantly digging more gold out of the earth?
Unless I’m missing something obvious, it’s nonsense ‘talking points’ like this that makes me sceptical that Bitcoin bugs will use any argument - however spurious and immediately refutable - to boost confidence ready for a pump and dump
Unless I’m missing something obvious, it’s nonsense ‘talking points’ like this that makes me sceptical that Bitcoin bugs will use any argument - however spurious and immediately refutable - to boost confidence ready for a pump and dump
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- MerkinMaker
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It's simple supply and demand. Price is inversely proportional to supply. Therefore with everything else being equal, as more gold is mined, the price decreases and the market cap remains unchanged.
Aside from that Bitcoin and Gold are both finite and directly comparable. About 90% of all bitcoins have been mined and about 80% of all (estimated) gold has been mined.
They are also similar as in that the cost of extraction is inversely proportional to the remaining unmined supply, with Bitcoin this is by design, with gold it's just a case of the lowest hanging fruit being picked first.
The market cap of Bitcoin is currently around one tenth of gold.
Aside from that Bitcoin and Gold are both finite and directly comparable. About 90% of all bitcoins have been mined and about 80% of all (estimated) gold has been mined.
They are also similar as in that the cost of extraction is inversely proportional to the remaining unmined supply, with Bitcoin this is by design, with gold it's just a case of the lowest hanging fruit being picked first.
The market cap of Bitcoin is currently around one tenth of gold.
I like how the normal rules of supply and demand apply to gold (the more that’s mined, the lower the price) but don’t apply to Bitcoin
It’s quite miraculous.
It’s quite miraculous.
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- MerkinMaker
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The same law applies to Bitcoin everything else being equal.starkmonster wrote: ↑Mon Mar 01, 2021 9:46 pmTherefore with everything else being equal, as more gold is mined, the price decreases and the market cap remains unchanged.
- Orichá
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I always wondered where the supply of "free" Bitcoins comes from for miners who "verify blockchain (transactions?)" first? Especially considering that as time goes on, verifying them becomes so much more intensive as the blockchain grows longer -- requiring plenty of computer power, processing time and large quantities of expensive electricity...
At the beginning of Bitcoin miners who "verified a blockchain" received 50 free bitcoins... What is the difference between "verifying a blockchain" and "actually mining" a single Bitcoin? ...Nothing online that I have read makes this mushy nonsense clear... Where do these magical free bitcoin rewards for "blockchain verifying miners" who win by verifying a current block first come from? Halving has continued to reduce miner's rewards from 50 to 25 to 12.5 and now 6.25 free per block verification... I guess that someone has a fat purse of free bitcoins just waiting to disburse to those who verify blocks first?
The only possible mathematical explanation would be that, back at the beginning, the blockchain verification process took less time because the blockchain was "shorter"... and so Bitcoin blockchain transactions were being verified more quickly... But if it took one miner one blockchain verification to win an award of 50 free Bitcoins at the beginning, where did the free reward Bitcoins actually come from? If verifying a blockchain consists of verifying Bitcoin transactions, this still does not explain WHERE the new free Bitcoins COME FROM?
Who actually knows the difference between "verifying a blockchain" and "minting a new Bitcoin"?
None of the articles below hint remotely at how it would have been possible to award the first miner to verify a blockchain with "50 free" Bitcoins at the beginning of the enterprise -- when there were many fewer Bitcoins -- as compared to now, when a miner can only get 6.25 "free bitcoin" for "verifying a block..." even as there are millions more whole Bitcoins now in circulation than at the beginning stage... Doesn't it all sound contradictory and nonsensical?
https://www.investopedia.com/tech/what- ... irculation.
https://www.bitdegree.org/crypto/tutori ... oin-mining
At the beginning of Bitcoin miners who "verified a blockchain" received 50 free bitcoins... What is the difference between "verifying a blockchain" and "actually mining" a single Bitcoin? ...Nothing online that I have read makes this mushy nonsense clear... Where do these magical free bitcoin rewards for "blockchain verifying miners" who win by verifying a current block first come from? Halving has continued to reduce miner's rewards from 50 to 25 to 12.5 and now 6.25 free per block verification... I guess that someone has a fat purse of free bitcoins just waiting to disburse to those who verify blocks first?
The only possible mathematical explanation would be that, back at the beginning, the blockchain verification process took less time because the blockchain was "shorter"... and so Bitcoin blockchain transactions were being verified more quickly... But if it took one miner one blockchain verification to win an award of 50 free Bitcoins at the beginning, where did the free reward Bitcoins actually come from? If verifying a blockchain consists of verifying Bitcoin transactions, this still does not explain WHERE the new free Bitcoins COME FROM?
Who actually knows the difference between "verifying a blockchain" and "minting a new Bitcoin"?
None of the articles below hint remotely at how it would have been possible to award the first miner to verify a blockchain with "50 free" Bitcoins at the beginning of the enterprise -- when there were many fewer Bitcoins -- as compared to now, when a miner can only get 6.25 "free bitcoin" for "verifying a block..." even as there are millions more whole Bitcoins now in circulation than at the beginning stage... Doesn't it all sound contradictory and nonsensical?
https://www.investopedia.com/tech/what- ... irculation.
https://www.bitdegree.org/crypto/tutori ... oin-mining
"Storytelling reveals meaning without committing the error of defining it."
...Hannah Arendt
...Hannah Arendt
with a few pointed questions Oricha just exposed the scam of the century!
NASA better hope he doesn't turn his sharp reasoning skills to the Mars landing
NASA better hope he doesn't turn his sharp reasoning skills to the Mars landing
- Orichá
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Unless, I have "misunderstood" ...as Bitcoiners are sure to think...
Perhaps the Reward Bitcoins are "Spontaneously Generated" upon winning the transactional verification race. Okay, but where do they "appear"? In the miner's brokerage account? No matter where the new Bitcoins "appear" first, don't they also need to contain a new Identity AND have appended to them all earlier Bitcoin I.D.s in the preceding chain, to verify its authenticity? Or does the New Bitcoin affirm its own unique identity through the process of adding new transactions to its own tail? But I thought ALL BITCOINS -- each and every single Bitcoin -- contains an identical register of transactions or some sort of "history" which verifies it is genuine... Does winning the current transactional verification race also automatically "attach" this same chain to the "New Bitcoins" rewarded to the race winner, somehow? And they appear as a new numbered Bitcoin entity, ie.: "Bitcoin 19,343,932+transactionalhistory" ...But where does this new I.D. appear for the first time? In the miner's computer? In some central account? I thought all Bitcoins were handled fluidly by brokers..? How can you actually HOLD a Bitcoin on your own PC? I guess you can't... Hmmmmm...
Where or where can the little lamb be?
Perhaps the Reward Bitcoins are "Spontaneously Generated" upon winning the transactional verification race. Okay, but where do they "appear"? In the miner's brokerage account? No matter where the new Bitcoins "appear" first, don't they also need to contain a new Identity AND have appended to them all earlier Bitcoin I.D.s in the preceding chain, to verify its authenticity? Or does the New Bitcoin affirm its own unique identity through the process of adding new transactions to its own tail? But I thought ALL BITCOINS -- each and every single Bitcoin -- contains an identical register of transactions or some sort of "history" which verifies it is genuine... Does winning the current transactional verification race also automatically "attach" this same chain to the "New Bitcoins" rewarded to the race winner, somehow? And they appear as a new numbered Bitcoin entity, ie.: "Bitcoin 19,343,932+transactionalhistory" ...But where does this new I.D. appear for the first time? In the miner's computer? In some central account? I thought all Bitcoins were handled fluidly by brokers..? How can you actually HOLD a Bitcoin on your own PC? I guess you can't... Hmmmmm...
Where or where can the little lamb be?
"Storytelling reveals meaning without committing the error of defining it."
...Hannah Arendt
...Hannah Arendt
- Orichá
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I guess you can store Bitcoin on your own PC, but it doesn't look easy or convenient to do so... (And I bet only a handful of people actually have a bitcoin wallet on their own PC...) You have to be a computer whiz already...
https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Storing_bitcoins
I think the vast majority of investors use the brokerages... whom I would never trust for thirty seconds...
https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Storing_bitcoins
I think the vast majority of investors use the brokerages... whom I would never trust for thirty seconds...
"Storytelling reveals meaning without committing the error of defining it."
...Hannah Arendt
...Hannah Arendt
"Not my circus, not my monkeys" - KiR
All Bitcoin are on the Blockchain. What you can hold yourself is a private key which proofs you are the owner of a particular Bitcoin (amount). This key can be stored in/as a wallet on your computer, mobile phone, printed on paper or a hardware wallet like a Ledger. It is based on "asymmetric encryption". For details read: https://www.blockchain-council.org/bloc ... ptography/
When you use a broker/exchange you have no private key hence the phrase "not your key, not your Bitcoin".
@kinard: funny. Now let's see what the traditional banking, fintech, gold/silver mining/storing/transportation/etc, cost in terms of electricity.
When you use a broker/exchange you have no private key hence the phrase "not your key, not your Bitcoin".
@kinard: funny. Now let's see what the traditional banking, fintech, gold/silver mining/storing/transportation/etc, cost in terms of electricity.
- Orichá
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Why not answer my question?
How are "new" Bitcoins generated and given to the speediest miners?
....... Is a new Bitcoin stitched into the blockchain with the name of the particular individual who generated it designated as new owner? Like Joseph Huang of #07, 32nd Fl., New Yak Tower, Chengdu, Sichuan...?
......Does Mr. Huang receive an email from Santoshi...? "Congratulations, you just won 6.25 Bitcoins for beating out ten thousand others in today's Sudoku puzzle contest...".
Because winning the contest is the only way new Bitcoins get minted...
????????????
How are "new" Bitcoins generated and given to the speediest miners?
....... Is a new Bitcoin stitched into the blockchain with the name of the particular individual who generated it designated as new owner? Like Joseph Huang of #07, 32nd Fl., New Yak Tower, Chengdu, Sichuan...?
......Does Mr. Huang receive an email from Santoshi...? "Congratulations, you just won 6.25 Bitcoins for beating out ten thousand others in today's Sudoku puzzle contest...".
Because winning the contest is the only way new Bitcoins get minted...
????????????
"Storytelling reveals meaning without committing the error of defining it."
...Hannah Arendt
...Hannah Arendt
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- MerkinMaker
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Agreed, they should pull the CEO of Bitcoin up in front of a Senate select committee and talk to him about that.kinard wrote: ↑Tue Mar 02, 2021 12:36 pmCarbon footprint will sink Bitcoin
https://www.cnbc.com/2021/02/05/bitcoin ... print.html
If this thread proves one thing, it’s that even the most ardent Bitcoin zealouts don’t know much about Bitcoin.
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