Gilmore wrote:I discussed these recent govt. actions with a colleague, who has worked in the micro-finance industry here and has observed their operations all over the country. The conversations took place this morning and last week, before I saw this thread.
His comments were almost identical to those expressed by SCC i.e. newcomers to the industry are using it as an excuse for land grabbing, in the manner SCC outlined. Are these similarities purely co-incidental? I doubt it.
Greed and Power
bump
- ផោមក្លិនស្អុយ
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Nice one A.Alexandra wrote:ផោមក្លិនស្អុយ wrote:I was thinking about this yesterday.
Greed and Power = Boobs and Willies.
Greed = Boobs
Power = Willies
Subtle, but brilliant. Sorry for spelling it out to other posters but I don't think everyone operates on the same intellectual plane as you...
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From the Monster deal article:
According to a joint company release, The Bank of East Asia (BEA) and LOLC acquired a controlling share of Prasac by purchasing minority stakes held by Dragon Capital Group Ltd, Belgian Investment Company for Developing Countries SA (BIO) and the Netherlands Development Finance Company (FMO).
Is this not proof of foreign ownership in MFIs? Certainly looks that way.
According to a joint company release, The Bank of East Asia (BEA) and LOLC acquired a controlling share of Prasac by purchasing minority stakes held by Dragon Capital Group Ltd, Belgian Investment Company for Developing Countries SA (BIO) and the Netherlands Development Finance Company (FMO).
Is this not proof of foreign ownership in MFIs? Certainly looks that way.
ירי ילדים והפצצת אזרחים דורש אומץ, כמו גם הטרדה מינית של עובדי ההוראה.
Nobody has ever denied MFIs have foreign ownership. It's no debate that most are JVS involving overseas banks or NGOs or both. That is a long way from SCC pointing fingers here and saying we should be ashamed, and you listing names of executives from websites and conflating that with expat owners.
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^^Is that similar to the Rising wedge chart pattern?Alexandra wrote:ផោមក្លិនស្អុយ wrote:I was thinking about this yesterday.
"I don't care what the people are thinking, i ain't drunk i'm just drinking"
Jesus, thank you. I couldn't even be bothered to reply to the first year uni socialist earlier but the two foreign bodies highlighted are development investment vehicles that are probably not totally evil.scobienz wrote:Nobody has ever denied MFIs have foreign ownership. It's no debate that most are JVS involving overseas banks or NGOs or both. That is a long way from SCC pointing fingers here and saying we should be ashamed, and you listing names of executives from websites and conflating that with expat owners.
They may want a return on their investment, they in turn have shareholders and investment compliance after all, but they provide liquid where many fear to tread.
Next someone's going to say nobody should donate to medicins sans frontieres because they invest their donations the better to have money when some poor bastard needs his viscera stuffed back in.
First we have debt-suicide equated to Cambodian and Scottish immigrants selling ice-cream to Japanese in London; then we have mfi's with 30 + % loans etc being equated to medicine sans frontier. You're sounding more and more like HE in your equatables.RobW wrote:Jesus, thank you. I couldn't even be bothered to reply to the first year uni socialist earlier but the two foreign bodies highlighted are development investment vehicles that are probably not totally evil.scobienz wrote:Nobody has ever denied MFIs have foreign ownership. It's no debate that most are JVS involving overseas banks or NGOs or both. That is a long way from SCC pointing fingers here and saying we should be ashamed, and you listing names of executives from websites and conflating that with expat owners.
They may want a return on their investment, they in turn have shareholders and investment compliance after all, but they provide liquid where many fear to tread.
Next someone's going to say nobody should donate to medicins sans frontieres because they invest their donations the better to have money when some poor bastard needs his viscera stuffed back in.
Last edited by Abou-Gor on Thu Mar 23, 2017 1:55 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Uh...perhaps not denied, but some were certainly not open to the idea of accepting obvious likelihood.scobienz wrote:Nobody has ever denied MFIs have foreign ownership. It's no debate that most are JVS involving overseas banks or NGOs or both. That is a long way from SCC pointing fingers here and saying we should be ashamed, and you listing names of executives from websites and conflating that with expat owners.
1. You say that like my listing names is a bad thing. It's public information, readily available for anybody to see. The names pretty much indicate expatness, do they not? That was the only reason for posting them, quickest indicator. If I had said ÁBC MFI has 5 expat BOD members' someone would undoubtedly have asked for proof, I merely anticipated that.
2. I didn't conflate anything. I merely stated that it's possible, even likely, that with so many expats visibly on a board, that ownership could be expat. Do you disagree with that idea? Would you not assume that if the majority of a BOD was Chinese that it was Chinese-owned? I think it's a reasonable assumption in most, but not all cases.
3. The latest information (see below) proved exactly what I thought. Perhaps people should at least acknowledge that.
I only have 2 issues here:
1. If MFIs can survive elsewhere (iirc Vietnam and Thailand regionally) with lower rates, why should there be a protected species here?
2. We have seen proof that a few are expat-owned.
'From the Monster deal article:
According to a joint company release, The Bank of East Asia (BEA) and LOLC acquired a controlling share of Prasac by purchasing minority stakes held by Dragon Capital Group Ltd, Belgian Investment Company for Developing Countries SA (BIO) and the Netherlands Development Finance Company (FMO).
Is this not proof of foreign ownership in MFIs? Certainly looks that way.'
This was being discussed and some were very hesitant to accept that expats are involved. And this is just one company.
I never asked for, nor do I expect an apology from any people involved. That didn't come from me. I personally don't think it's a realistic expectation.
Why so defensive? You're not involved in MFIs, are you? Usually every time a business takes a hit, everybody quotes survival of the fittest/supply and demand, failing bar owners get ridiculed, even.
As soon as the finance sector is involved people want different standards applied. It's very strange that you don't recognise the inconsistency.
Surely the rule should apply to everybody/everything?
That's my only reason for even posting on this thread.
ירי ילדים והפצצת אזרחים דורש אומץ, כמו גם הטרדה מינית של עובדי ההוראה.
vladimir wrote:
2. We have seen proof that a few are expat-owned.
'From the Monster deal article:
According to a joint company release, The Bank of East Asia (BEA) and LOLC acquired a controlling share of Prasac by purchasing minority stakes held by Dragon Capital Group Ltd, Belgian Investment Company for Developing Countries SA (BIO) and the Netherlands Development Finance Company (FMO).
Is this not proof of foreign ownership in MFIs? Certainly looks that way.'
This was being discussed and some were very hesitant to accept that expats are involved. And this is just one company.
.
Vlad, you have spent a lifetime teaching English. I'm surprised therefore that you struggle to understand the difference between 'expat-owned' and 'foreign-owned.'
Let's be very clear. NOBODY here has denied almost all MFIs are foreign-owned to a degree. I have expressly stated that. It does NOT necessarily follow that they are expat owned. Nor does an MFI having expat EXECUTIVES working in Cambodia increase the likelihood of expat ownership. It just means a few of their staff are expats.
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scobienz, get it, but the OP's point is about exploitation. I think we're splitting hairs here on semantics. Foreigners own a few MFIs, we all know that. Several of those have expats working for them, we get that. So AG's post/claim is still valid wrt to expats profiteering.
AG posted and raised the issue of exploitation. I think if you read the thread carefully, you will see that I have not commented on that, I've limited myself to questions of who is involved, and why they cannot survive under conditions which Vietnamese and Thai organisations can.
That's my only interest.
I think we've seen that the reason is simply because they cannot compete, and perhaps people should just allow them, like any other organisation, to be subject to the law of supply and demand/survival of the fittest....
I personally believe that anything over 10%pa is usury, and I'm not alone in that stance. But maybe that's an issue for another thread sometime.
AG posted and raised the issue of exploitation. I think if you read the thread carefully, you will see that I have not commented on that, I've limited myself to questions of who is involved, and why they cannot survive under conditions which Vietnamese and Thai organisations can.
That's my only interest.
I think we've seen that the reason is simply because they cannot compete, and perhaps people should just allow them, like any other organisation, to be subject to the law of supply and demand/survival of the fittest....
I personally believe that anything over 10%pa is usury, and I'm not alone in that stance. But maybe that's an issue for another thread sometime.
ירי ילדים והפצצת אזרחים דורש אומץ, כמו גם הטרדה מינית של עובדי ההוראה.
They competed just fine in the chain of supply and demand until government intervention came along and started regulating them...vladimir wrote:I think we've seen that the reason is simply because they cannot compete, and perhaps people should just allow them, like any other organisation, to be subject to the law of supply and demand/survival of the fittest....
Bless
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My amateurish guess would be that it is more costly, for whatever reasons, to operate a MFI in Cambodia than in Thailand or Vietnam.vladimir wrote: ...why they cannot survive under conditions which Vietnamese and Thai organisations can.
That's my only interest.
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Regulation by govt is an environmental factor that exists in Thailand and Vietnam and almost every other country in the world. And the rate they stipulated is close to Thai/Viet rates.Alexandra wrote:They competed just fine in the chain of supply and demand until government intervention came along and started regulating them...
Bless
It's not like it's some weird random factor dreamed up by a loose economics cannon.
It 's like saying a company existed just fine before it paid less than normal taxation, or didn't follow the law.
The staunch defence at-all-costs of of people charging very high interest rates doesn't hep the perception that many people have of moneylenders.
The angle you guys should be looking at is the timing of the takeover of Prasac, but obviously that's purely coincidental, right?
Last edited by vladimir on Fri Mar 24, 2017 6:35 am, edited 2 times in total.
ירי ילדים והפצצת אזרחים דורש אומץ, כמו גם הטרדה מינית של עובדי ההוראה.
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Why? Seriously...I would imagine the reverse.sounds_never_seen wrote:My amateurish guess would be that it is more costly, for whatever reasons, to operate a MFI in Cambodia than in Thailand or Vietnam.
Incomes are higher in both Vietnam and Thailand...surely salaries for staff would be lower, too?
I know that salaries/rates for teachers (both expat and local) are lower, civil servants (Thai, not sure about Vietnam)
Minimum wage is seldom enforced here, neither is Labour Law, very often. I would guess way cheaper here.
Maybe the garment factory owners are misinformed?
ירי ילדים והפצצת אזרחים דורש אומץ, כמו גם הטרדה מינית של עובדי ההוראה.
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