Over the last few weeks, I've been trying to understand the silver markets in Vietnam. I made a bit more of a concerted effort today, by having a 30 minute conversation with someone who works for the PNJ company. For those that done know, PNJ is the official government gold trading shop. They also sell silver, but only jewelry which is 945 (iirc) as opposed to 999., But, they don't sell it by weight. In fact, all the silver jewelry has no real weight to it, and they won't weigh it.
It was explained to me that the current silver jewelry has a Disney theme, and it's bought for children as well as adult female customers. I explained that silver was a previous metal, like gold, and about the silver gold relationship. They seemed a bit surprised, but who knows?
They also said that they don't buy silver from customers.
So basically, I'm looking for any information about the silver markets out here. How they work, where to buy silver bars, etc.
I'm rightly or wrongly presuming it may well be the same in Cambodia, Laos and Thailand?
Cheers
KFF
What's up with the Silver Markets in SE Asia?
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- OneTrickPony
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- Ordinary Schmo
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I went on a search for silver bars about a month ago. I couldn’t find them. Tried Ly Hour and some other exchanges that I know sell gold. I was always asked “why do you want to buy silver, not gold?” I tried to explain that the gold to silver ratio is extremely high at the moment and will have to come down, especially as factories around the world reopen, but they didn’t understand.
I’ve heard of people here smelting down silver plates/art to get silver by weight, and that you can buy it the decorative plates at pretty much the same price.
Anyone know more than I do?
I’ve heard of people here smelting down silver plates/art to get silver by weight, and that you can buy it the decorative plates at pretty much the same price.
Anyone know more than I do?
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- My Best Friend is my Computer
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There would appear to be a few misconceptions about silver here.
Firstly, there is nothing wrong with the global market for silver and as I write this the "Spot Price" in USD$ is - Gram $0-60, Troy Ounce $18-65 and Kilogram $599-61.
Secondly, Silver in most of Asia and elsewhere is not regarded as a precious or noble metal but as a utilitarian or decorative metal.
Thirdly, The global impact of Corvid -19 has shuttered factories world wide hence the commercial and industrial demand for silver is greatly reduced.
Fourthly, as far as Cambodia is concerned please see:
Cambodian Silver
Just go to any reputable established silversmith/silver dealer in Cambodia and ask them to demonstrate the purity of the silver on a "Touchstone" – “thma som ret”.
This simple test has been used for centuries around the world and instantly shows any base metal "impurities" used to make an alloy of silver. If the vendor is not prepared to immediately demonstrate this to you then avoid that vendor and move on.
Please also remember that silver is not considered a "precious" metal in much of Asia including Cambodia. Silver is more a "working" or "utilitarian" metal in this part of the world and "purity" can and does vary between 600 parts per 1000 to 800/1000 or, at times, 900/1000 and many old and valuable Khmer/Siamese/Thai/Indonesian/Spanish or even Dutch Colonial silver objects intended for daily use fall within this range. As does much German silver at 800, 830, 835 and 900/1000. And Dutch silver at 835; Polish and Czechoslovakian at 800; Spanish silver at 915 and with Finnish silver at a high 935 in many cases.
Again, the purity is instantly revealed by use of a touchstone. It is as often as not the highly skilled workmanship and repousse work that values these objects as much as the pure silver content; which is but one factor in the appreciation and valuation of these increasingly rare and valuable pieces and the better pieces of which are much sought after these days and command rather high prices.
As for gold in Cambodia if you want pure gold then use the acid test and hence the Khmer name ...meas tuk dorp... for it in Cambodia. But regular handlers of Khmer gold can quickly tell the "Chi" weight of the piece in question in the palm of their hand. The Asian standard for gold is not our karat system. But Cambodian gold is really a separate topic so see my posting on Gold.
But back to silver. With silver now down from its record high prices per Troy Ounce/31.1 grams or 480 grains if you will, of circa US$31.00 + per Troy Ounce, and today’s (15 May 2020) wholesale price being about US$15-59, silver is becoming affordable again.
There are no Cambodian regulatory Guildhalls or equivalent to independently assay and mark silver wares with their purity. Anyone can stamp a piece "STG”, "Sterling", "925" or” .925" etc. Electro plating of a low value base metal with silver to make it look like silver is a common practice worldwide and not just in tourist areas.
The real value in Asian silver, and Cambodia is excellent value in this respect, is the fact that whilst the metal purity/price is a constant pretty much all over the world, it is the craftsmanship that is so cheap in Cambodia if one stops to think about the hourly wage rate paid to a silversmith working in, say, Australia, Canada, France, Japan or the UK - in fact in any developed country. It is for this reason that some regular travellers to Cambodia are able to have pieces either made to order or other pieces repaired or remodelled.
Believe me - there is no such thing as "Cheap" Gold, Silver or Gemstones as each of these has a precise international value, on a quality-for-purity and rarity basis, and yet so many tourists think that they know better and can buy a “bargain” to take home and sell for a profit, and yet they know so little, if anything at all, about these matters.
And never forget that the prices you see quoted for precious metals in the daily news media are the Wholesale prices and not the Retail prices.
OML
End note:
OML has been a collector of older Cambodian silver boxes, many signed, since my time in Cambodia with the UN/UNTAC in 1992 and now have a very respectable collection of these now much sought after pieces and which becoming very hard to find.
Bibliography:
Title Cambodian Silver Animals: A Long Tradition of Artistic Heritage
Author Kathleen I. Matics
Publisher Chulalongkorn University Press, 2002
Original from the University of Michigan
Digitized 28 May 2009
ISBN 9741314175, 9789741314171
Length 297 pages
Media:
https://www.khmertimeskh.com/50580727/c ... -heritage/
https://www.khmertimeskh.com/50723560/w ... ts-smiths/
Firstly, there is nothing wrong with the global market for silver and as I write this the "Spot Price" in USD$ is - Gram $0-60, Troy Ounce $18-65 and Kilogram $599-61.
Secondly, Silver in most of Asia and elsewhere is not regarded as a precious or noble metal but as a utilitarian or decorative metal.
Thirdly, The global impact of Corvid -19 has shuttered factories world wide hence the commercial and industrial demand for silver is greatly reduced.
Fourthly, as far as Cambodia is concerned please see:
Cambodian Silver
Just go to any reputable established silversmith/silver dealer in Cambodia and ask them to demonstrate the purity of the silver on a "Touchstone" – “thma som ret”.
This simple test has been used for centuries around the world and instantly shows any base metal "impurities" used to make an alloy of silver. If the vendor is not prepared to immediately demonstrate this to you then avoid that vendor and move on.
Please also remember that silver is not considered a "precious" metal in much of Asia including Cambodia. Silver is more a "working" or "utilitarian" metal in this part of the world and "purity" can and does vary between 600 parts per 1000 to 800/1000 or, at times, 900/1000 and many old and valuable Khmer/Siamese/Thai/Indonesian/Spanish or even Dutch Colonial silver objects intended for daily use fall within this range. As does much German silver at 800, 830, 835 and 900/1000. And Dutch silver at 835; Polish and Czechoslovakian at 800; Spanish silver at 915 and with Finnish silver at a high 935 in many cases.
Again, the purity is instantly revealed by use of a touchstone. It is as often as not the highly skilled workmanship and repousse work that values these objects as much as the pure silver content; which is but one factor in the appreciation and valuation of these increasingly rare and valuable pieces and the better pieces of which are much sought after these days and command rather high prices.
As for gold in Cambodia if you want pure gold then use the acid test and hence the Khmer name ...meas tuk dorp... for it in Cambodia. But regular handlers of Khmer gold can quickly tell the "Chi" weight of the piece in question in the palm of their hand. The Asian standard for gold is not our karat system. But Cambodian gold is really a separate topic so see my posting on Gold.
But back to silver. With silver now down from its record high prices per Troy Ounce/31.1 grams or 480 grains if you will, of circa US$31.00 + per Troy Ounce, and today’s (15 May 2020) wholesale price being about US$15-59, silver is becoming affordable again.
There are no Cambodian regulatory Guildhalls or equivalent to independently assay and mark silver wares with their purity. Anyone can stamp a piece "STG”, "Sterling", "925" or” .925" etc. Electro plating of a low value base metal with silver to make it look like silver is a common practice worldwide and not just in tourist areas.
The real value in Asian silver, and Cambodia is excellent value in this respect, is the fact that whilst the metal purity/price is a constant pretty much all over the world, it is the craftsmanship that is so cheap in Cambodia if one stops to think about the hourly wage rate paid to a silversmith working in, say, Australia, Canada, France, Japan or the UK - in fact in any developed country. It is for this reason that some regular travellers to Cambodia are able to have pieces either made to order or other pieces repaired or remodelled.
Believe me - there is no such thing as "Cheap" Gold, Silver or Gemstones as each of these has a precise international value, on a quality-for-purity and rarity basis, and yet so many tourists think that they know better and can buy a “bargain” to take home and sell for a profit, and yet they know so little, if anything at all, about these matters.
And never forget that the prices you see quoted for precious metals in the daily news media are the Wholesale prices and not the Retail prices.
OML
End note:
OML has been a collector of older Cambodian silver boxes, many signed, since my time in Cambodia with the UN/UNTAC in 1992 and now have a very respectable collection of these now much sought after pieces and which becoming very hard to find.
Bibliography:
Title Cambodian Silver Animals: A Long Tradition of Artistic Heritage
Author Kathleen I. Matics
Publisher Chulalongkorn University Press, 2002
Original from the University of Michigan
Digitized 28 May 2009
ISBN 9741314175, 9789741314171
Length 297 pages
Media:
https://www.khmertimeskh.com/50580727/c ... -heritage/
https://www.khmertimeskh.com/50723560/w ... ts-smiths/
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- OneTrickPony
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Interesting post OML. I have been reading the same in Vietnam vis-à-vis availability of crafted silver jewelry: the real value is in the work. Interestingly, the gold jewelry market appears to be the other way round. If you buy a piece of gold jewelry, the resale value is more in the base metal purity/ weight as opposed to the craftsmanship, which only obtains a small premium. That is, unless you take it back to the west where, as you rightly mention, the craftsmanship will fetch a premium.
I do find it extremely odd that Indians value silver as a previous metal to store wealth, whereas SE Asians don't seem to.
I mean, the return on silver at the moment could potentially be up to 10x that of gold.
There must surely be an interesting historical story to tell?
I do find it extremely odd that Indians value silver as a previous metal to store wealth, whereas SE Asians don't seem to.
I mean, the return on silver at the moment could potentially be up to 10x that of gold.
There must surely be an interesting historical story to tell?
Up the workers!
could you post some pics of say 10 of your favourite silver boxes so we can compare the heritage and silversmithing?
do you silver box collectors have a market like the buddhist amulets or muslim amulets pop up markets/stalls/pavement blanket?
do you silver box collectors have a market like the buddhist amulets or muslim amulets pop up markets/stalls/pavement blanket?
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- My Best Friend is my Computer
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I think it is very unwise to post images from one's private collections on to social media such as this. So, no, I will not.
As for having a market for these items I just don't know as I collect for my private enjoyment and not for resale or for profit. But I am often surprised at the prices fetched at internal auctions for similar pieces or asked for on forums such as Ebay.
OML
As for having a market for these items I just don't know as I collect for my private enjoyment and not for resale or for profit. But I am often surprised at the prices fetched at internal auctions for similar pieces or asked for on forums such as Ebay.
OML
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