Obese? The chances you'll get to a healthy weight are 1/210
Well done G&T...bloody good effort, keep it up.
I'm not a negative person, I encourage people all the time...it's usually to f**k off! But, whatever.
- Lucky Lucan
- K440 Knight Captain
- Reactions: 761
- Posts: 22525
- Joined: Fri Mar 04, 2011 12:24 pm
- Location: The Pearl of the Orient
Good stuff, I'd barely recognize you now.
Romantic Cambodia is dead and gone. It's with McKinley in the grave.
Good on ya, G&T. It really isn't all that difficult, except there's too many mixed messages circulating out there. Some argue fat is fattening, some argue it's the carbs, some argue it's the combination.. some say it's meat, some say it's fruit or wheat or dairy..
But here's a simple undeniable fool-proof fact amid all the heated debates, eliminating both alcohol and any foods/drinks that have-fructose-but-no-fiber will get anyone there at least 80% of the way and like remove/significantly reduce the worst health implications too, including fatty-liver and metabolic syndrome. Carbs in moderation aren't all that bad when they're either packaged naturally with satiating fiber (slowing down blood sugar release) or contain little to no fructose (ie. sodas, juices or anything with plain sugar or HFCS ---both contain fructose--- are out). So stuff like oats, even rice & potatoes, can still be OK if people could just stop binging like little kids on candies, chocolate, cakes, cookies and insanely sweet liquid calories all day, every day.. or even every other day.
Yes, regrettably sugar/HFCS is addictive in the brain similarly to cocaine/nicotine/alcohol; and yes, regrettably fructose (outside of fruits / fiber, so anything with sugar/HFCS) does get metabolized in the liver almost as damagingly as alcohol, just without the brain buzz. That drink choice between a beer, a coke or an industrially-produced juice is a joke, they all (after chronic exposure over decades) sicken you and fatten you up and right here it's not about their respective calories at all, rather it's due to hormonal signaling (zero satiety for the ingested kcals, for one) and how similarly the liver handles both incoming ethanol and fructose! For example glucose goes from the blood to glycogen stores to be burned off over the coming hours or days (and these can hold some 1200-2000kcal before fat storage begins), but fructose goes straight to fat storage, we cannot burn it, we cannot store it like glycogen, and the liver won't let it enter the bloodstream either, none of our cells have any use for fructose. All just like alcohol (fermented sugars). So, not a nutrient but a toxin. Though it's the chronic overdosing of sugar/HFCS so common today that eventually overwhelms various organs and/or fattens people up beyond recognition --- both very slowly, over many decades of life.
Personally I love low-carb/high-fat eating and swear by animal-source foods --- but I realize this isn't feasible or enjoyable for an overwhelming majority of modern folks apparently.
Quite a few people stay thin also on high-carb/low-fat (usually when not too sedentary and most of the carbs are "decent"/fibrous as per above), fine by me if their hormonal systems & satiety messaging keep working nicely on low-fat.. a few even seem to manage to stay entirely naturally within their daily energy needs and never seem to exceed those all through their lives, without ever watching carbs or fats or calories, but those seem to be outliers nowadays.
BUT eliminating or severely minimizing alcohol and sugar/HFCS is a first step that shouldn't be a big deal for anyone. If it is, they'll have to investigate why that is. If life without booze and cake seems so bland, maybe these folks should find new hobbies, different friends, and adopt a pet? Or they should accept and admit they're substance-addicted and face the potential side-effects looming down the road head-on.
Bottom line: just quitting habitual intermittent snacking between meals (a very recent phenomenon), alcohol, fructose-without-fiber will do the trick. That's regardless of various belief-systems about lo-this/hi-that. That's regardless of your personal food intolerances, allergies, preferences. And simply eating rich/traditional/real-food meals (3 square a day if need be) should be doable and quite enjoyable for any grown-up. They shouldn't view it as a "diet" but as "transitioning from mindless grazing to mindful nourishing".
Not the fastest way to lose a lot of weight, but perhaps one of the more workable ones for most, in the long run. The fastest way I think would be keto (very-low-carb/high-fat) or zero-carb, but that's not for everyone. What's counterproductive is counting & tracking calories and macro-nutrients daily. For one, a daily calorie reduction weakens people and slows their metabolism and makes folks miserable, whereas intermittent fasting (for example, don't eat say 16/24 hours or don't eat 2/7 days etc) with no specific calorie targets does not show these effects and raises the metabolic rate!
Hence, calories-in/calories-out or "a calorie is a calorie" was never workable for most folks.. whereas "hacking lifestyle habits" can work exceedingly well (and can be attempted cumulatively / one at a time), such as "I will no longer drink any calories, only eat them", or intermittent fasting, or "unlimited fat, limited carbs", or "limited fat, plenty of fibrous/complex carbs", or "I will only eat my square full real meals and only when hungry and only to satiety, no more snacking" --- all very much doable (and psychologically so much more potent than ridiculous counting and tracking) once a person has decided (via their mirror, their scale or their blood panels) that they need a sustainable lifestyle change.
But here's a simple undeniable fool-proof fact amid all the heated debates, eliminating both alcohol and any foods/drinks that have-fructose-but-no-fiber will get anyone there at least 80% of the way and like remove/significantly reduce the worst health implications too, including fatty-liver and metabolic syndrome. Carbs in moderation aren't all that bad when they're either packaged naturally with satiating fiber (slowing down blood sugar release) or contain little to no fructose (ie. sodas, juices or anything with plain sugar or HFCS ---both contain fructose--- are out). So stuff like oats, even rice & potatoes, can still be OK if people could just stop binging like little kids on candies, chocolate, cakes, cookies and insanely sweet liquid calories all day, every day.. or even every other day.
Yes, regrettably sugar/HFCS is addictive in the brain similarly to cocaine/nicotine/alcohol; and yes, regrettably fructose (outside of fruits / fiber, so anything with sugar/HFCS) does get metabolized in the liver almost as damagingly as alcohol, just without the brain buzz. That drink choice between a beer, a coke or an industrially-produced juice is a joke, they all (after chronic exposure over decades) sicken you and fatten you up and right here it's not about their respective calories at all, rather it's due to hormonal signaling (zero satiety for the ingested kcals, for one) and how similarly the liver handles both incoming ethanol and fructose! For example glucose goes from the blood to glycogen stores to be burned off over the coming hours or days (and these can hold some 1200-2000kcal before fat storage begins), but fructose goes straight to fat storage, we cannot burn it, we cannot store it like glycogen, and the liver won't let it enter the bloodstream either, none of our cells have any use for fructose. All just like alcohol (fermented sugars). So, not a nutrient but a toxin. Though it's the chronic overdosing of sugar/HFCS so common today that eventually overwhelms various organs and/or fattens people up beyond recognition --- both very slowly, over many decades of life.
Personally I love low-carb/high-fat eating and swear by animal-source foods --- but I realize this isn't feasible or enjoyable for an overwhelming majority of modern folks apparently.
Quite a few people stay thin also on high-carb/low-fat (usually when not too sedentary and most of the carbs are "decent"/fibrous as per above), fine by me if their hormonal systems & satiety messaging keep working nicely on low-fat.. a few even seem to manage to stay entirely naturally within their daily energy needs and never seem to exceed those all through their lives, without ever watching carbs or fats or calories, but those seem to be outliers nowadays.
BUT eliminating or severely minimizing alcohol and sugar/HFCS is a first step that shouldn't be a big deal for anyone. If it is, they'll have to investigate why that is. If life without booze and cake seems so bland, maybe these folks should find new hobbies, different friends, and adopt a pet? Or they should accept and admit they're substance-addicted and face the potential side-effects looming down the road head-on.
Bottom line: just quitting habitual intermittent snacking between meals (a very recent phenomenon), alcohol, fructose-without-fiber will do the trick. That's regardless of various belief-systems about lo-this/hi-that. That's regardless of your personal food intolerances, allergies, preferences. And simply eating rich/traditional/real-food meals (3 square a day if need be) should be doable and quite enjoyable for any grown-up. They shouldn't view it as a "diet" but as "transitioning from mindless grazing to mindful nourishing".
Not the fastest way to lose a lot of weight, but perhaps one of the more workable ones for most, in the long run. The fastest way I think would be keto (very-low-carb/high-fat) or zero-carb, but that's not for everyone. What's counterproductive is counting & tracking calories and macro-nutrients daily. For one, a daily calorie reduction weakens people and slows their metabolism and makes folks miserable, whereas intermittent fasting (for example, don't eat say 16/24 hours or don't eat 2/7 days etc) with no specific calorie targets does not show these effects and raises the metabolic rate!
Hence, calories-in/calories-out or "a calorie is a calorie" was never workable for most folks.. whereas "hacking lifestyle habits" can work exceedingly well (and can be attempted cumulatively / one at a time), such as "I will no longer drink any calories, only eat them", or intermittent fasting, or "unlimited fat, limited carbs", or "limited fat, plenty of fibrous/complex carbs", or "I will only eat my square full real meals and only when hungry and only to satiety, no more snacking" --- all very much doable (and psychologically so much more potent than ridiculous counting and tracking) once a person has decided (via their mirror, their scale or their blood panels) that they need a sustainable lifestyle change.
-
- My Best Friend is my Computer
- Reactions: 51
- Posts: 638
- Joined: Wed Apr 22, 2015 10:19 am
I can vouch for the abstaining from alcohol as an effective means of loosing weight.
I like my alcohol and my food and consume quite a bit of each.
However, I periodically abstain from my wine and chocolate biscuits and the like.
Not so long ago I found that I had hit a life time highest weight. Not good.
In a day or two I will have gone ten weeks without alcohol except for only one glass of wine in that period.
I have also lost four kilos in weight.
Weight loss is slow but steady.
I want to lose another two kg and then I shall return to my wine and food as before.
Ot Mean Loi
I like my alcohol and my food and consume quite a bit of each.
However, I periodically abstain from my wine and chocolate biscuits and the like.
Not so long ago I found that I had hit a life time highest weight. Not good.
In a day or two I will have gone ten weeks without alcohol except for only one glass of wine in that period.
I have also lost four kilos in weight.
Weight loss is slow but steady.
I want to lose another two kg and then I shall return to my wine and food as before.
Ot Mean Loi
- Jacked Camry
- Is the World Outside still there ?
- Reactions: 2
- Posts: 5674
- Joined: Sun Jul 24, 2005 2:53 pm
Excellent post Metaleap, and agree with your conclusions.
If I can just share my experiences which are far less technical and a bit more practical. I was told by my doctor to drop 8kg and reduce my cholesterol. Within six weeks I had dropped 8kg and have basically maintained this over the past two years. What I did was:
1. Buy a nice digital bathroom scale (they're cheap). I weigh myself every morning after my ritual dump and in that way it keeps me aware of the different fluctuations in my weight on a daily basis and I can reflect on why it went up or down and adjust behaviour accordingly.
2. Switch from beef and pork to fish and chicken almost exclusively. This was a primarily cholesterol related thing, but it seems to have translated also into helping with weight loss.
3. Consciously reduce the amount of carbs I eat and only eat whole grain carbs. I just put half a plate of rice instead of a full one, and find that by just keeping it off the plate I eat less of it.
4. Eat more veggies.
5. Stop any and all sodas, fruit juices or other drinks with calories - Metaleap explained this very well, and I agree that it's one of the prime causes of the obesity epidemic.
I still drink beer regularly, but only a few a day with dinner normally, with the occasional bender or evening out where I'll consume many more than this. I could probably drop another 5-10kg easily if I gave that up, but why stop living to live longer?
If I can just share my experiences which are far less technical and a bit more practical. I was told by my doctor to drop 8kg and reduce my cholesterol. Within six weeks I had dropped 8kg and have basically maintained this over the past two years. What I did was:
1. Buy a nice digital bathroom scale (they're cheap). I weigh myself every morning after my ritual dump and in that way it keeps me aware of the different fluctuations in my weight on a daily basis and I can reflect on why it went up or down and adjust behaviour accordingly.
2. Switch from beef and pork to fish and chicken almost exclusively. This was a primarily cholesterol related thing, but it seems to have translated also into helping with weight loss.
3. Consciously reduce the amount of carbs I eat and only eat whole grain carbs. I just put half a plate of rice instead of a full one, and find that by just keeping it off the plate I eat less of it.
4. Eat more veggies.
5. Stop any and all sodas, fruit juices or other drinks with calories - Metaleap explained this very well, and I agree that it's one of the prime causes of the obesity epidemic.
I still drink beer regularly, but only a few a day with dinner normally, with the occasional bender or evening out where I'll consume many more than this. I could probably drop another 5-10kg easily if I gave that up, but why stop living to live longer?
-
- Damn, I just saw my Internet Bill !
- Reactions: 4
- Posts: 4384
- Joined: Fri Sep 05, 2014 5:46 am
I agree with all but the 2nd point. I eat a lot of pork. I limit the fish as I'm wary of the sources. Heavy metal contamination is rife amongst the world's seafood. Once it enters the food chain it remains there. Forever. Beef, maybe 3 servings a week. Good source of iron but leaves me feeling bloated. Chicken is good on occasion but I find pork a better source of protein, and tastier. Also have 3 eggs a day.Jacked Camry wrote:Excellent post Metaleap, and agree with your conclusions.
If I can just share my experiences which are far less technical and a bit more practical. I was told by my doctor to drop 8kg and reduce my cholesterol. Within six weeks I had dropped 8kg and have basically maintained this over the past two years. What I did was:
1. Buy a nice digital bathroom scale (they're cheap). I weigh myself every morning after my ritual dump and in that way it keeps me aware of the different fluctuations in my weight on a daily basis and I can reflect on why it went up or down and adjust behaviour accordingly.
2. Switch from beef and pork to fish and chicken almost exclusively. This was a primarily cholesterol related thing, but it seems to have translated also into helping with weight loss.
3. Consciously reduce the amount of carbs I eat and only eat whole grain carbs. I just put half a plate of rice instead of a full one, and find that by just keeping it off the plate I eat less of it.
4. Eat more veggies.
5. Stop any and all sodas, fruit juices or other drinks with calories - Metaleap explained this very well, and I agree that it's one of the prime causes of the obesity epidemic.
I still drink beer regularly, but only a few a day with dinner normally, with the occasional bender or evening out where I'll consume many more than this. I could probably drop another 5-10kg easily if I gave that up, but why stop living to live longer?
A number of nutritionists are distancing themselves from diet alone causing cholesterol issues. The vast majority of the bodies cholesterol is produced by the liver and not ingested.
- Jacked Camry
- Is the World Outside still there ?
- Reactions: 2
- Posts: 5674
- Joined: Sun Jul 24, 2005 2:53 pm
The cholesterol issue is actually probably more of an inflammation issue at its core - without inflammation in the arteries and veins you don't have a site the cholesterol can attach to and hence it's not dangerous. On the other hand, nothing wrong with reducing the overall amount of bad cholesterol in the system, and so I made this switch. I do find the same dishes made with chicken and fish to be lighter and easier to digest as well. I'm not religious about the switch, and will still eat pork and beef on occasion, but just try to reduce this in favour of the others or, where available, tofu.Gin&Tonic wrote:I agree with all but the 2nd point. I eat a lot of pork. I limit the fish as I'm wary of the sources. Heavy metal contamination is rife amongst the world's seafood. Once it enters the food chain it remains there. Forever. Beef, maybe 3 servings a week. Good source of iron but leaves me feeling bloated. Chicken is good on occasion but I find pork a better source of protein, and tastier. Also have 3 eggs a day.Jacked Camry wrote:Excellent post Metaleap, and agree with your conclusions.
If I can just share my experiences which are far less technical and a bit more practical. I was told by my doctor to drop 8kg and reduce my cholesterol. Within six weeks I had dropped 8kg and have basically maintained this over the past two years. What I did was:
1. Buy a nice digital bathroom scale (they're cheap). I weigh myself every morning after my ritual dump and in that way it keeps me aware of the different fluctuations in my weight on a daily basis and I can reflect on why it went up or down and adjust behaviour accordingly.
2. Switch from beef and pork to fish and chicken almost exclusively. This was a primarily cholesterol related thing, but it seems to have translated also into helping with weight loss.
3. Consciously reduce the amount of carbs I eat and only eat whole grain carbs. I just put half a plate of rice instead of a full one, and find that by just keeping it off the plate I eat less of it.
4. Eat more veggies.
5. Stop any and all sodas, fruit juices or other drinks with calories - Metaleap explained this very well, and I agree that it's one of the prime causes of the obesity epidemic.
I still drink beer regularly, but only a few a day with dinner normally, with the occasional bender or evening out where I'll consume many more than this. I could probably drop another 5-10kg easily if I gave that up, but why stop living to live longer?
A number of nutritionists are distancing themselves from diet alone causing cholesterol issues. The vast majority of the bodies cholesterol is produced by the liver and not ingested.
Don't think we have too many heavy metal issues with fish since the Mekong is relatively non-polluted from industry. The biggest danger for that is bottom-feeding shellfish located near dumps or other industrial output which is where the nasty stuff tends to sink.
EDIT: Forgot to mention, of course, that I also upped my physical exercise. That is a pretty important factor too.
Great work G&T.
I'm not giving up the sauce until they come to get me but will take your other ideas on board.
I'm not giving up the sauce until they come to get me but will take your other ideas on board.
- Starving Pelican
- I am a Special Snowflake !!?!
- Reactions: 83
- Posts: 5850
- Joined: Sun Jun 04, 2006 1:21 pm
- Location: Cat Food Paradise
Nice work man. Even your frame and posture seems to have changed from a middle-aged man to that of someone in their mid-thirties.Gin&Tonic wrote:Before and after
August 2011
Today
I got it wrong. My weight loss started in November 2012, not 2011 as started previously.
First off, in November 2012 I had gastric sleeve surgery. This reduced my meal portion. By July 2013 my weight had dropped from 148.6kg to about 112kg. In October 2013 I split with the ex and after she kidnapped my children deppression set in and I started to gain weight again.
By the end of August 2014 my weight was back over 121kg. I then changed my dietary intake. I stopped eating processed food. I reduced carbs and limited myself to ~5000kj/day. I started daily exercise (walking/jogging). First night I went out to exercise it took me nearly an hour to complete 2.5km and I was stuffed.
Now I have increased my diet to 6000kj. I run 5km/day (26 minutes personal best), ride 14km+ and light weight work.
Once a week I'll do a distance run and currently in training for a 12km run in September which I aim to complete in under an hour. Not there yet. Can't yet maintain that speed for so long.
My diet is particular and carbs are low although increased before distance runs. Mostly from oats and fresh fruit. No bread, pasta, rice, potato's, etc...
400g of meat everyday and plenty of vegetables. No sugar. Alcohol once every few months. No fast food at all.
I log all my food and exercise so I can keep track.
He could be your father.Starving Pelican wrote:.someone in their mid-thirties.
Rated R for Ricecakes
- ali baba
- "Suit up!"
- Reactions: 12
- Posts: 2982
- Joined: Sat Apr 16, 2011 5:46 am
- Location: Equadorian Embassy
How do you avoid hunger on a low carb diet? I tried going a day without eating processed carbs and gave up it the mid afternoon because I was too hungry.
I ate some eggs and lots of fruit and veg.
I ate some eggs and lots of fruit and veg.
C'mere c'meye
-
- Similar Topics
- Replies
- Views
- Last post
-
-
What are my chances to live a good life in Cambodia with this background?
by GeorgeR. » Thu May 19, 2022 3:44 pm » in Questions and Answers - 10 Replies
- 2593 Views
-
Last post by Dylan Quint
Fri Jun 03, 2022 3:38 am
-
-
-
Imported walnuts, raisins, chia seeds, red lentils, pumpkin seeds and more healthy food for sale
by Zenopium » Tue Jul 23, 2019 4:31 pm » in Buy and Sell - 7 Replies
- 3256 Views
-
Last post by orde
Fri Aug 09, 2019 8:53 am
-