Lying about vaccination status
Harvard Professor's Arrest Raises Questions About Scientific Openness
https://www.npr.org/2020/02/14/80612841 ... c-openness
Hopefully this article is not too long before your attention spans buzzing Kampot.
https://www.npr.org/2020/02/14/80612841 ... c-openness
Hopefully this article is not too long before your attention spans buzzing Kampot.
Learning to read: Yep, a long time ago at school.Orichá wrote: ↑Sun Jul 25, 2021 12:56 pmCan you even READ, V12..?v12 wrote: ↑Sat Jul 24, 2021 4:46 pmSome chaotic rambling, assuming Covid-19 knows about political preferences. Wrong.Orichá wrote: ↑Sat Jul 24, 2021 4:23 pm....
It all appears to be a mess made by capitalism. If governments and drug makers had cooperated properly, the whole world could have access to a single "very-best possible vaccine" that all the drug makers could have manufactured simultaneously... Instead, what we have now are a lot of greedy small, selfish pharma companies sucking on government teats... No cooperation, no top quality vaccine for all people all around the world. No good. Very bad planning and mediocre execution.
The opposite is true though: Personal political preferences tend to have a significant influence on Covid-19 infection susceptibility, due to the political preferences of the anti-maskers and anti-vaxxers.
I just said: that if governments had coordinated and demanded - BY LEGISLATION -- enacted at both the national and international (United Nations) levels SIMULTANEOUSLY -- then we would RIGHT NOW have an INTERNATIONAL vaccine available to all people in all nations equally... Instead, we have the dominance of capitalism, forcing governments to bend to the whims and capabilities of individually selfish pharmaceutical companies... What we should have seen, instead, was a COORDINATED EFFORT on the part of the UN, via the W.H.O., to POOL the resources of all the Pharma companies to COOPERATE BY LAW to produce a UNIVERSALLY GOOD QUALITY VACCINE FOR THE ENTIRE WORLD...
BUT -- instead -- we have a travesty, which is, in actual fact, a mirror reflection of international global social and economic inequality... !!! Can we get the fancy vaccines here in Cambodia? No... Can we go back to Canada or the U.S. with a crappy Sinovac jab? Not without being rich enough for the crook rich hotel quarantine shyte corporate privilege system...
When a publisher "sells your book" they take 94 % of the sticker price... Why?
Do you understand anything about Capitalism and how it has ruined the world?
Let me debunk your travesty:
- "Capitalism destroyed the world": Nop, the issue is not Capitalism, though Greed. Add the disasters Communism did and does bring to those areas where a one-party "democracy" is in place, and see that Greed is even more predominant in those areas.
- Pfizer & Moderna to Cambodia: Nop, because that stuff needs storage environments, not available in Cambodia. Bidden his intentions for 1M Pfizer can become very challenging.
- The unequal vaccine distribution is NOT due to dishonesty, though largely due to "the poorer countries" simply ordering late. Where rich countries approved several vaccines early on and even ordered before approval, the poor countries started to "chase" after the vaccines, much later, let alone the ordering process.
- And around that subject, Cambodia does do pretty well. It is pretty well ingrained in Khmer blood to continue begging for things they want to have. And, it got only "moving", when the military did become in charge. Before it was one big chaos of good intentions. I did not look up this, though I think, that chaos is highly relevant for all poor countries, who got their vaccines only later on. (Add to that Australia, which also makes a complete mess of their "get out of the misery" pathway).
- We should not forget, Cambodia managed to obtain a huge AZ batch, early on, which got jabbed into those in power (IE military, etc), so, yeah, available, though Cambodia does set its own priorities, IE not the "poor", as you prefer. So, even inside Cambodia, your idealistic goals are largely violated.
- Assuming the UN/WHO would be able to spread-out all available vaccines all over the world, is something that is politically suicide in the richer countries (apart from the practical issues as raised above) and as such simply not possible. China "donates" large batches of their local vaccines, made possible, because the Chinese themselves don't want that, as well the Chinese geopolitical targets (of which Cambodia tends to be an important one, because of the Sihanoukville area with a commercial deep sea port, as well the new Chinese military base, giving China an important stronghold to reach all over the Southern China Sea, $$$$$ for oil, gas and minerals).
- Where Pfizer does usually cost roughly USD 18.00 per dose for the rich countries, Pfizer does sell for half that price to poor countries (including Southern America, not really "poor" countries, more chaotically organized).
- And maybe your biggest mistake: International vaccines do not exist. There are commercial companies who develop, produces, etc, the vaccines, which got emergency approval and ordered initially only by the richer countries' governments. And commercial companies do have other goals than yours, that is how the world works. Those ordering (and confirmed) first get the available production.
Or so to say, IF Cambodia had had the proper technical cooling infrastructure, the jab organizational structure as well be early on with their approval/ordering, Cambodia would have had the same jab opportunities as "rich" countries. It is not a money issue, Pfizer is expensive, though AZ is certainly affordable and for 10m people significantly cheaper than the economic costs of lock-downs.
We should not forget, that "poor" countries are "poor", not because they don't have money, but (let me call it largely) due to the way the countries are organized (politically, socially and technically). You can't overcome that, by "organizing" a vaccines' availability push. Vaccines would simply spoil.
Yep, that's a big issue and in core also how Pakistan (and probably also Iran) got their atom bomb (-knowledge).busybee wrote: ↑Sun Jul 25, 2021 8:22 pmHarvard Professor's Arrest Raises Questions About Scientific Openness
https://www.npr.org/2020/02/14/80612841 ... c-openness
Hopefully this article is not too long before your attention spans buzzing Kampot.
China organizes these things pretty well, in the academic world, as well the commercial world. The latter, where companies are only allowed to sell their products in China, when those companies do bring both production and development to China. That's a huge knowledge drain. See how China managed to "copy" the Maglev technology in just 10 years, the high-speed trains, etc. Aero industry is also coming up, though those areas do show, it's not only technology, though it also needs a suitable social and political infrastructure to implement high-tech at the edge.
We should not forget, China is not a free society, where students are allowed to choose their own knowledge area. Capable students are government brainwashed/selected, sent abroad to acquire knowledge (more than just the published papers) and bring that home. And, yep, there are of course a lot of Chinese students abroad, just because they do have rich parents, etc, though that just deludes the attention the capable students do get, to keep those below the radar.
- Orichá
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You are a clueless fuckwit white bigot... You assume on the example of a few isolated cases that the behavior of all Asians in America is like this... IT IS NOT. YOU ARE AN IGNORANT MAN... Shut up!busybee wrote: ↑Sun Jul 25, 2021 6:19 pmThere is no doubt that Chinese nations are respected, but Beijing's nouveau riche families have acted more aggressively than ever before, and tourist spots have been overwhelmed to the point that they have had to prevent their repeat customers from entering due to large groups of cigarette smoking. Mainland Chinese, sometimes in “casual” militaristic outfits. While American universities are struggling not to lose their intellectual property at an unprecedented rate.
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"Storytelling reveals meaning without committing the error of defining it."
...Hannah Arendt
...Hannah Arendt
You are completely wrong, and calling me a racist is the real offense here. I only see this from a sociological point of view and aspect.
If I didn't like Asians in general, I wouldn't spend time here. However, when we start talking about the Beijing crowd, I can sound a little offensive about some of them and their manners towards international society and even some of their own people, in recent times.
You see the same country that goes after a democratic Hong Kong and Taiwan is more than keen to gain knowledge in places where free speech and patent-breaking universities are the source of many new ideas and technologies. Ditto for Japan and South Korea.
Communism is always eaten away by itself in the long run.
If I didn't like Asians in general, I wouldn't spend time here. However, when we start talking about the Beijing crowd, I can sound a little offensive about some of them and their manners towards international society and even some of their own people, in recent times.
You see the same country that goes after a democratic Hong Kong and Taiwan is more than keen to gain knowledge in places where free speech and patent-breaking universities are the source of many new ideas and technologies. Ditto for Japan and South Korea.
Communism is always eaten away by itself in the long run.
Yep, though that is a very limited view of the world, not to say, usually with highly colored and full of presumption glasses.
Yep, just like in Europe, where the continent is flooded with North-Africans, being spit out by the people in their own country.
Yep, that's the China modus-operandi.
I highly doubt that, once the communist party established its enforced power (Russia, China, Vietnam and some more strongholds). Then, the communism will only disappear, unless the party lets go and that is not going to happen since that'll be "self-destroying".
- Orichá
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I should shorten my answer... Well, were you by any chance a Public Relations manager at Rothman's or Marlboro in an earlier incarnation? Just to select the last few points you made. You may or may not realize it, but to me you sound like an apologist for the unbalanced world order, which spends a lot of energy rationalizing inequality between nations as problems of history, or the wrong political philosophy ruled by amoral economy, as you suggest about China (I cut out that part, but see your previous post...)v12 wrote: ↑Sun Jul 25, 2021 11:01 pm
Learning to read: Yep, a long time ago at school.
Let me debunk your travesty:
- And maybe your biggest mistake: International vaccines do not exist. There are commercial companies who develop, produces, etc, the vaccines, which got emergency approval and ordered initially only by the richer countries' governments. And commercial companies do have other goals than yours, that is how the world works. Those ordering (and confirmed) first get the available production.
Or so to say, IF Cambodia had had the proper technical cooling infrastructure, the jab organizational structure as well be early on with their approval/ordering, Cambodia would have had the same jab opportunities as "rich" countries. It is not a money issue, Pfizer is expensive, though AZ is certainly affordable and for 10m people significantly cheaper than the economic costs of lock-downs.
We should not forget, that "poor" countries are "poor", not because they don't have money, but (let me call it largely) due to the way the countries are organized (politically, socially and technically). You can't overcome that, by "organizing" a vaccines' availability push. Vaccines would simply spoil.
The problem of commercial companies is exactly that they are obliged to pursue strictly limited objectives within the parameters of their existing, and preferred -- or necessary -- market demographic... If you simply want to build a world out of rationalizations for unfair behavior, production and distribution, then it will be a strangely alien and uninhabitable world, my dear V12... It will be rather like a hollow shell, a geodesic dome with no skin, no insides, nothing but the breeze flowing between the rusty struts, and the rain will water the lawn on the ground beneath...
I am not so sure if you are acquainted with the notion of cooperation, pooling resources, labor, ideas, production techniques, and necessary machinery like vacuum chambers and humid ovens and all sorts of bizarre pressurized cookers to grow and ferment and kill but preserve the virus... It takes time and precisely refined processes that are timed and temperature controlled... You would think it would be easy to create tie-ins between the best practices of all major players and simply build a series of identical plants making the best quality product more efficiently than the limited capabilities to date. We have seen only a few joint-ventures and intellectual property sharing between a handful of major pharma companies, sometimes at the behest of governments...
But no major shake-up to get things moving in a way that could put the Earth back on her feet a little sooner has happened, has it? It takes minds that think together, not excuse old habits of unjustly deformed and corruptly overbearing economies made of monopoly and power-mad-scale, my friend... The universal vaccine would not need to be super-cooled, but tech has to be pooled to reach the happy medium.... And the future happens slowly, over hundreds of years... Think how long it took us to reach the digital age. Modern times began four hundred, five hundred years ago, and science has been rapidly striding all that time... If our frail species lasts another couple hundred years, the world will have been reconstructed... Or we will be dust and fodder for termites...
At the end of your interesting reply, you write that we should not forget that countries are poor -- not because of a "lack of money", but due to some poor organization and I suppose low scores on development, honesty and integrity. I won't disagree with that entirely. But oddly, in poor countries, all of them are tied to money systems now, same as the wealthier world. So, people are obliged to make the best of nothing, or very little. You and I have not experienced that, so I don't think we understand very well the experience of most Cambodians....
Anyway, what is to be done to revive and educate all people to respect the Earth, and that the world extends beyond the confines of their own limited immediate familial fiefdom, etc, etc...? And the need for an SUV road in Sihanoukville for example, is like watching a dinosaur try on new boots in a shop most people can't afford to enter. Asia is so clannish and the conservative impulse deters a lot of creative thought here, such uniformities of concrete and mass money-laundering, tax shelters and write-offs... Lol, good luck... Maybe the super-rich can build domes and burrows that will keep them alive a little longer than the rest of us, but not forever... Let's hope when the time comes, the hydroponics in those domes will be able to feed the whole world, not just some sci-fi last colony at the end of all the smoldering cinders...
Look at the dearth of contraception in Cambodia or Africa? If you could simply make condoms available easily to young men and women, then you would see a better chance for them to grow up a little more before plunging into the same old routine as their folks, etc, etc...
I don't know what it takes to make the perfect world, but too many superstitious and xenophobic religions, political intrigues, capital-cliques and tinfoil old hat traditions might make quick work of our wormwoody splendor...
Would you like some tea? With your fried Earth sandwich, floating on a flash flood?
https://www.thermofisher.com/kh/en/home ... ction.html
https://www.ministryofdrinks.co.uk/prod ... tif-quina/
"Storytelling reveals meaning without committing the error of defining it."
...Hannah Arendt
...Hannah Arendt
Let me stick to your first paragraph since you already derail there with your presumptions and all the rest does go with it (until you pick up where you agree with me).Orichá wrote: ↑Mon Jul 26, 2021 10:48 pm.....
I should shorten my answer... Well, were you by any chance a Public Relations manager at Rothman's or Marlboro in an earlier incarnation? Just to select the last few points you made. You may or may not realize it, but to me you sound like an apologist for the unbalanced world order, which spends a lot of energy rationalizing inequality between nations as problems of history, or the wrong political philosophy ruled by amoral economy, as you suggest about China (I cut out that part, but see your previous post...)
......
There is a difference between an apologist and explaining what happens. And there goes your reasoning out of the railway tracks.
And these things are deeply ingrained in what countries call their "culture" and are proud off. Russia will never develop to an environment where all people can live in comfort and freedom, as long as they stick to the way they decide about (roughly) everything.
The US will never be free of (more than) daily mass-shootings, as long as "the culture" is to privately possess an armament suitable for a battalion. Yessss, those Amendments are just "culture" nothing more. Toss some stupid ones out of the history windows, and life would become much better in the US.
Poor Cambodians and education is a difficult thing, where children are "supported" by their parents to return grade-10 home-work, effectively the parent making the homework, so the result is "excellent". The child does learn nothing and, in the long term, gets completely lost while being far behind. But, it's their culture to "please" the "master" as much as possible, irrespective of the negative consequences (The child does not learn).
Is this apologetic: Not at all, just explaining. You just derail on your dreaming "social" focus.
Surfing a derailed thread.
Capitalism is not fair or good, but greed can be usefully harnessed. Nice Communism, 'from each according to ability, to each according to need', would be swell if humans were not humans. Everyone desires to feel free, Anarchism, promises that, but generally can't deliver to groups. The best path is some amalgam, and because we each live in our own place, society and time, that path, to horribly mix metaphors, is a moving target. For example, what worked pretty darn well in Singapore for a long time, won't be right for Nigeria or New York.
Is benevolent strongman working for Cambodia? Well, pre-Covid, an awful lot of younger Cambodians would say, 'No." At the moment, HE is getting kudos, at least for vaccine rollout vis-a-vis Thailand and Vietnam. I'm a pretty old foreigner, and I lean, slightly, towards the view of the majority of similar aged Khmers, namely, "It could be a lot worse."
Global challenges in front of us? Lots. So Education for Global Citizenship? Sure, as much as possible, but people haven't changed very much since the invention of the plow... I guess humans, with a huge chunk of fairly needless death and destruction for us and all species, will muddle through this century and maybe the next millennia.
Still, preferring to lie about vaccine status, rather than getting a tiny shot, not much different than all the other tiny shots you have probably had in your life, seems a pretty silly protest.
My fairly rich neighbour refuses to pay for trash pickup. All refuse is tossed in the backyard and gets irregularly swept up and burned. It doesn't trouble me more, or less, than antvaxers refusing to get a vaccine. Because of the smelly smoke, I am unlikely to hire the son as a guard, and I am similarly un-inclined to hire unvaccinated staff moving forward. They have their freedom and I have mine. If applicants lie on their application, that is grounds for immediate dismissal, maybe the day before seniority pay is due. They can argue it before the D of Labor if they wish.
Capitalism is not fair or good, but greed can be usefully harnessed. Nice Communism, 'from each according to ability, to each according to need', would be swell if humans were not humans. Everyone desires to feel free, Anarchism, promises that, but generally can't deliver to groups. The best path is some amalgam, and because we each live in our own place, society and time, that path, to horribly mix metaphors, is a moving target. For example, what worked pretty darn well in Singapore for a long time, won't be right for Nigeria or New York.
Is benevolent strongman working for Cambodia? Well, pre-Covid, an awful lot of younger Cambodians would say, 'No." At the moment, HE is getting kudos, at least for vaccine rollout vis-a-vis Thailand and Vietnam. I'm a pretty old foreigner, and I lean, slightly, towards the view of the majority of similar aged Khmers, namely, "It could be a lot worse."
Global challenges in front of us? Lots. So Education for Global Citizenship? Sure, as much as possible, but people haven't changed very much since the invention of the plow... I guess humans, with a huge chunk of fairly needless death and destruction for us and all species, will muddle through this century and maybe the next millennia.
Still, preferring to lie about vaccine status, rather than getting a tiny shot, not much different than all the other tiny shots you have probably had in your life, seems a pretty silly protest.
My fairly rich neighbour refuses to pay for trash pickup. All refuse is tossed in the backyard and gets irregularly swept up and burned. It doesn't trouble me more, or less, than antvaxers refusing to get a vaccine. Because of the smelly smoke, I am unlikely to hire the son as a guard, and I am similarly un-inclined to hire unvaccinated staff moving forward. They have their freedom and I have mine. If applicants lie on their application, that is grounds for immediate dismissal, maybe the day before seniority pay is due. They can argue it before the D of Labor if they wish.
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V12 you are obviously a smart bloke, but I can't help to think you are now scared of your own shadow.Covid is a bad flu for most and symptom less for everybody else. You should be more worried about crossing the road and being killed in a traffic accident than dying of covid. Folks like you better get used to taking injections every year and stop going on about how wonderful you are that you've taken an injection because you're scared!
Everybody was worried at first but then the evidence and commonsense showed there was nothing to be worried about.
Maybe you should go to a group and get some therapy for your anxiety?
Everybody was worried at first but then the evidence and commonsense showed there was nothing to be worried about.
Maybe you should go to a group and get some therapy for your anxiety?
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Not v12 Guest 9999Fred Edwards wrote: ↑Tue Jul 27, 2021 5:21 amGuest 9999 you are obviously a smart bloke, but I can't help to think you are now scared of your own shadow.Covid is a bad flu for most and symptom less for everybody else. You should be more worried about crossing the road and being killed in a traffic accident than dying of covid. Folks like you better get used to taking injections every year and stop going on about how wonderful you are that you've taken an injection because you're scared!
Everybody was worried at first but then the evidence and commonsense showed there was nothing to be worried about.
Maybe you should go to a group and get some therapy for your anxiety?
I agree with your first 7 words, though the remainder, you are awfully wrong.Fred Edwards wrote: ↑Tue Jul 27, 2021 5:21 amV12 you are obviously a smart bloke, but I can't help to think you are now scared of your own shadow.Covid is a bad flu for most and symptom less for everybody else. You should be more worried about crossing the road and being killed in a traffic accident than dying of covid. Folks like you better get used to taking injections every year and stop going on about how wonderful you are that you've taken an injection because you're scared!
Everybody was worried at first but then the evidence and commonsense showed there was nothing to be worried about.
Maybe you should go to a group and get some therapy for your anxiety?
Neither do I see G9999 qualify for that shadow stuff.
Covid-19 (especially the India/Delta variant) is not a "just-a-flue". Being careful with Covid-19 is not so much a personal thing, though much more a "support-the-society" thing. It is an infectious illness, with an R0>3 under regular society living conditions, implying it'll spread extremely fast and as such overwhelming medical facilities. Just science, raw math shows this.
We have the irresponsible world idiots like US/Trumpie (responsible for over an estimated 300000 unnecessary deaths), India/Moodi (some 400000 unnecessary deaths), Brazil/Bolsonaro (roughly 250000 unnecessary deaths) and UK/Bojo (some 50000) liable, just due to their ignorance on the seriousness of Covid-19.
So, maybe get therapy yourself and learn how it works in real life ?
I am not particularly afraid of Covid personally and I am certainly much more afraid of being hit while crossing the road. I just see wearing a mask, maintaining some distance, and getting vaccinated as very minor inconveniences for me to smoothly get along with the Khmer people around me. If best science to date shows that, in fact, these minor inconveniences do protect the health and lives of particularly vulnerable individuals I meet, first or '2nd hand', if you will, then that makes me happy. Even the nastiest now existent Covid strains are hardest on the already old and weak, but I'm honestly not that keen to accidentally knock off someone's grandma. Similarly, I'm not so keen for one of my staff to do so. If not hiring unvaccinated staff is what my customers prefer, I won't.
Will I terminate staff who refuse the opportunity to vaccinate only because they think their freedom to choose is paramount? I'm not there yet, I'm firmly on the fence. For now.
Will I terminate staff who refuse the opportunity to vaccinate only because they think their freedom to choose is paramount? I'm not there yet, I'm firmly on the fence. For now.
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