How did Cambodia avoid going to war with the US?
- nightmare.believer
- Wibble Wibble ?!?
- Reactions: 0
- Posts: 1763
- Joined: Tue Feb 06, 2007 11:44 am
How did Cambodia avoid going to war with the US?
How is it that Cambodia avoided war with the US during the Vietnam War? There was a very famous naval battle near Sihanoukville during the war, but this did not lead to an escalation in hostilities. American soldiers invading Cambodia can be seen in such sources as Apocalypse Now, and the King Father was sick of American machinations in the Kingdom, but how is it that Cambodia avoided war with the US?
-
- 20,000 Posts; I need professional help !
- Reactions: 2
- Posts: 22651
- Joined: Fri Jul 15, 2005 2:31 pm
- Location: Space, maaaan
Too busy hating the Yuon. Your people were just not that important.
I came, I argued, I'm out
More likely how did they avoid a war with the NVA? The Lon Nol government at the time was very anti Vietnamese and had a lot of US backing. Whether the Lon Nol coup was CIA instigated/supported is a contentious issue.
"While Sihanouk was abroad during March 1970, there were anti-Vietnamese riots in Phnom Penh. On 12 March, Lon Nol and Sirik Matak closed the port of Sihanoukville, through which weapons were being smuggled to the Viet Cong, to the North Vietnamese and issued an ultimatum: all PAVN (North Vietnamese) and NLF (Viet Cong) forces were to withdraw from Cambodian soil within 72 hours or face military action" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lon_Nol
"While Sihanouk was abroad during March 1970, there were anti-Vietnamese riots in Phnom Penh. On 12 March, Lon Nol and Sirik Matak closed the port of Sihanoukville, through which weapons were being smuggled to the Viet Cong, to the North Vietnamese and issued an ultimatum: all PAVN (North Vietnamese) and NLF (Viet Cong) forces were to withdraw from Cambodian soil within 72 hours or face military action" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lon_Nol
-
- 2000+ Posts! Aghh I Have No Mates
- Reactions: 0
- Posts: 2140
- Joined: Wed Sep 18, 2013 5:48 pm
- Location: Strange as it may seem Wigan
The lesser of perceived evils?
Nothing but an opinionated tourist. The Pope spends more time in countries than I do ! It is also not my place to comment on a gentleman's dress. A real 23 minute wonder, that obviously knows little about ovens and cooking in Cambodia.
- Lucky Lucan
- K440 Knight Captain
- Reactions: 761
- Posts: 22525
- Joined: Fri Mar 04, 2011 12:24 pm
- Location: The Pearl of the Orient
There were many clashes between the Cambodian Army and the NVA/NLF during the 1960s. Most of the fighting in the early years of the Khmer Republic was with the PAVN/NLF, the Khmer Rouge army was very small at the beginning of the war.Mèo Đen wrote:More likely how did they avoid a war with the NVA?
As for the US, relations deteriorated in the early 60s because of US support for rebel groups. There were also hundreds of complaints about border incidents and there were also incidents were US naval vessels strayed into Cambodian territory and the crews were captured. However, diplomatic relations were resumed in the late 60's - there was never any question of declaring war on the US.
The most serious incident occurred on 16–19 November when American
planes and artillery repeatedly attacked Dak Dam (located 4 miles inside
Cambodia), the Cambodian military post located there (which was destroyed),
and neighboring villages, including Bu Chric which was hit by B-52s. (This
appears to be the only time the Cambodian government specifically protested
the use of B-52s.) The American action was triggered when enemy artillery fire,
located near the town, hit the Special Forces camp at Bu Prang, located inside
Vietnam some 5 to 6 miles from Dak Dam. When American planes tried to
suppress the artillery fire, Cambodian forces responded with anti-aircraft rounds.
The American pilots then attacked the anti-aircraft guns and, in so doing,
inflicted substantial casualties on Cambodian military personnel. At least 25
Cambodians died, and a number of animals, civilian and military buildings
(including a school house), and vehicles (including an ambulance) were damaged
or destroyed.
...The Dak Dam attack upset Rives. Several months earlier he had privately
expressed the fear that such incidents would occur – and that they might be part
of a deliberate effort by American military forces to undercut improved relations.
“Rives is obviously perturbed – as we here have been before him,” reported the
Australian ambassador at that time, “by the possibility that the United States
military authorities in Viet Nam will follow a policy towards Cambodia which
was different to that of the White House and the State Department.” Now he
told the state department that he did “not quite see what I am expected to say to
the RKG in justification Nov. 16 and Nov. 17 attacks” since the Americans’ own
photographic evidence showed that a Cambodian military post, along with a
school and an ambulance, had been destroyed and numerous Cambodian
soldiers killed. Fearing that another break in relations was possible, he strongly
suggested that the President send a personal message to Sihanouk expressing his
distress over the incident. There was no presidential message, but the United
States did express its official regrets and sent solatium payments.
Much to Rives’ irritation, the border incidents continued. Between 26
November and 17 December Cambodia protested over 40 incidents. On 10
December Rives learned that three days earlier 300 artillery rounds had been
fired into Cambodia – the largest ever in a single day. Rives was especially upset
by a new, if smaller, attack on Dak Dam, which was “particularly dangerous in
view of past history.”
Romantic Cambodia is dead and gone. It's with McKinley in the grave.
The Mayaguez incident? That was about 2 years after America had pulled out of Vietnam.. "With honor".nightmare.believer wrote:How is it that Cambodia avoided war with the US during the Vietnam War? There was a very famous naval battle near Sihanoukville during the war, but this did not lead to an escalation in hostilities.
In such sources as Apocalypse Now? He, he.. you're joking right?nightmare.believer wrote:American soldiers invading Cambodia can be seen in such sources as Apocalypse Now
Alcohol is necessary so that a man can have a good opinion of himself, undisturbed by the facts
- Petrol Head
- Grand Poobah
- Reactions: 71
- Posts: 5770
- Joined: Mon Aug 27, 2012 1:54 pm
I dunno doc - I've made a point to talk extensively to most vets I've met in indochina and some of the stories make apoc look a bit tame (minus the whole Kurtz thing of course, unless you count that crazy CIA operative in Laos).
Haha - my money’s on Playboy
-
- 20,000 Posts; I need professional help !
- Reactions: 2
- Posts: 22651
- Joined: Fri Jul 15, 2005 2:31 pm
- Location: Space, maaaan
Petrol Head wrote:I dunno doc - I've made a point to talk extensively to most vets I've met in indochina and some of the stories make apoc look a bit tame (minus the whole Kurtz thing of course, unless you count that crazy CIA operative in Laos).
Actually the Kurtz element is one of the 'truest' parts of the story!
I came, I argued, I'm out
So are we using fiction and Hollywood movies as sources now when discussing history? Apocalypse now is a fictional story based loosely on a 1899 novella by Joseph Conrad set in Congo. The movie takes place in a handful of made up places like for example a river called the "nung river". It's 100% fiction.
This:
I mean.. Give me a break.
This:
Makes as much sense as saying "American soldiers in pow camps in Vietnam in the 1980s can be seen in such sources as Rambo 2"..American soldiers invading Cambodia can be seen in such sources as Apocalypse Now
I mean.. Give me a break.
Alcohol is necessary so that a man can have a good opinion of himself, undisturbed by the facts
- Petrol Head
- Grand Poobah
- Reactions: 71
- Posts: 5770
- Joined: Mon Aug 27, 2012 1:54 pm
A lot of it actually owes it's storyline to vietnam war journo Michael Herr author of 'dispatches' and former marine Gustav Hasford who wrote 'the short timers'.doktor_d wrote:So are we using fiction and Hollywood movies as sources now when discussing history? Apocalypse now is a fictional story based loosely on a 1899 novella by Joseph Conrad set in Congo. The movie takes place in a handful of made up places like for example a river called the "nung river". It's 100% fiction.
This:Makes as much sense as saying "American soldiers in pow camps in Vietnam in the 1980s can be seen in such sources as Rambo 2"..American soldiers invading Cambodia can be seen in such sources as Apocalypse Now
I mean.. Give me a break.
As I said, there was a very Kurtz-esk CIA boss operating in Laos who would chopper in the titty girls and the booze and have a good old time among the Montagnards.
Haha - my money’s on Playboy
- Lucky Lucan
- K440 Knight Captain
- Reactions: 761
- Posts: 22525
- Joined: Fri Mar 04, 2011 12:24 pm
- Location: The Pearl of the Orient
I don't think that's a very fair appraisal of Anthony Poshepny. He was a patriot who was well-loved by the Hmong he worked with.
http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Southeast_ ... 8Ae02.html
There are other characters that might have been the inspiration for Kurtz - Léon Rom would be the main contender. Others like Roger Trinquier could have too. It's certainly not clear that Coppola actually knew about Tony Poe when he made Apocalypse Now.
http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Southeast_ ... 8Ae02.html
There are other characters that might have been the inspiration for Kurtz - Léon Rom would be the main contender. Others like Roger Trinquier could have too. It's certainly not clear that Coppola actually knew about Tony Poe when he made Apocalypse Now.
Last edited by Lucky Lucan on Thu Jun 18, 2015 11:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Romantic Cambodia is dead and gone. It's with McKinley in the grave.
- Petrol Head
- Grand Poobah
- Reactions: 71
- Posts: 5770
- Joined: Mon Aug 27, 2012 1:54 pm
Yeah I read that one before - I will try and dig up that doco i watched about him and post here Lucan.
Haha - my money’s on Playboy
- Lucky Lucan
- K440 Knight Captain
- Reactions: 761
- Posts: 22525
- Joined: Fri Mar 04, 2011 12:24 pm
- Location: The Pearl of the Orient
Poe was quite an amazing character and certainly fits the bill. However Coppola has said he loosely based Kurtz on Robert B. Rheault and Project GAMMA .
Romantic Cambodia is dead and gone. It's with McKinley in the grave.
-
- Similar Topics
- Replies
- Views
- Last post
-
-
Scams in Cambodia and how to avoid them
by Fareastour Cambodia » Sat May 18, 2019 9:36 am » in Travel - 15 Replies
- 3966 Views
-
Last post by Jep
Sat May 18, 2019 4:09 pm
-
-
-
Immigration checks, Cambodia begins using "Foreigner Presence in Cambodia" system to track foreigners
by Bong Burgundy » Fri Mar 06, 2020 4:11 pm » in Cambodia Speakeasy - 13 Replies
- 15717 Views
-
Last post by telescopic
Wed Dec 28, 2022 11:21 am
-
-
-
How many of you are still in Cambodia?
by MarkinAston » Mon Jun 19, 2023 10:02 pm » in Cambodia Speakeasy - 29 Replies
- 9635 Views
-
Last post by MarkinAston
Tue Jun 20, 2023 8:09 pm
-
-
- 97 Replies
- 24508 Views
-
Last post by ផោមក្លិនស្អុយ
Wed Jun 28, 2023 6:07 pm
-
- 52 Replies
- 16695 Views
-
Last post by TheRaven
Wed Oct 05, 2022 8:58 pm