andyinasia wrote:Iran would be able to engage in state sponsored terrorism with impunity, bully/undermine their neighbors. Further, it would make any regime change (either due to internal or external pressure) far more dangerous.
This from an Amerikkkan. Gotta love these guys. They don't get irony, apparently.
Terrorist Attack in Bangkok, Iranian Involved
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Horace was right all along, the guy is nuts.
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Whats your point? Oh, I see this in some way makes it ok? Nice one.connecticuter wrote:http://www.weeklystandard.com/articles/ ... tml?page=1
America.
Check the record check the record check the guys track record...
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I am really enjoying all of these well thought out arguments that everyone is responding with. One might have thought that on a forum people would resort to name calling or simply dismiss my arguments. But here, you can rely on people taking your arguments seriously and responding to each point.
Oh wait, no one has actually tried to engage me and point out the flaw(s) in my arguments/beliefs.
Seriously guys, I am the only person on this forum who seems to hold a pro-Israel/anti-Iran position. Surely, someone among you can sit down and write a post pointing out the holes in my reasoning or one of my "false" assumptions. All of my posts on this topic have been written with a friendly tone and a sincere interest to consider the views of others.
Instead, we get open hostility and no serious dialogue. Whatever happened to civility and reasoned discourse for the sake of understanding an issue? I guess that is too much to ask for. How dare I have a pro-Israel anit-Iran opinion? Obviously, I am either ignorant, crazy, or immoral: there could not possibly be any other explantion.
Oh wait, no one has actually tried to engage me and point out the flaw(s) in my arguments/beliefs.
Seriously guys, I am the only person on this forum who seems to hold a pro-Israel/anti-Iran position. Surely, someone among you can sit down and write a post pointing out the holes in my reasoning or one of my "false" assumptions. All of my posts on this topic have been written with a friendly tone and a sincere interest to consider the views of others.
Instead, we get open hostility and no serious dialogue. Whatever happened to civility and reasoned discourse for the sake of understanding an issue? I guess that is too much to ask for. How dare I have a pro-Israel anit-Iran opinion? Obviously, I am either ignorant, crazy, or immoral: there could not possibly be any other explantion.
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You're speaking on behalf of ISRAEL??? You think everyone in Israel supports your extremist attitudes?connecticuter wrote: Damn, it seems I am the only one here that is pro-Israel.
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connie, you do know that for hundreds of thousands of Palestinians, the word 'tyrant' precisely describes their idea of the Israelis, right?connecticuter wrote: the US should have ceased supporting tyrants in the middle east after the cold war.
One man's meat is another man's poison...
I'm under no illusions that the dwarf currently running Iran is a not nutter, but er...why is no one complaining about other states who already have nuclear weapons and whose track record on aggression is worse?
ירי ילדים והפצצת אזרחים דורש אומץ, כמו גם הטרדה מינית של עובדי ההוראה.
connecticuter wrote: Damn, it seems I am the only one here that is pro-Israel.
Damn - where is Chavez when you need him........... I can imagine Connie and Chavez
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jm, I was thinking more of the US...(LOL) kiddingjm wrote:Well people do talk a bit about Pakistan and North Korea but it's rather more difficult to contemplate booting them from the club than denying Iran admission.
@chubacca: chavez the poster, or chavez the president? He's an interesting guy...
ירי ילדים והפצצת אזרחים דורש אומץ, כמו גם הטרדה מינית של עובדי ההוראה.
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Funny, my immediate reaction to 'worse track records' is Israel and the US.jm wrote:Well people do talk a bit about Pakistan and North Korea but it's rather more difficult to contemplate booting them from the club than denying Iran admission.
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I know, I was really responding to vlad's post, as you were. Indeed we're all on the same page. By the way, Conny's challenging us to rationally outline our reasons for refusing to arse-lick Zionism. My response is the same as it would be if a creationist challenged me to prove Genesis isn't inerrant literal truth - I've got better things to do with my time.jm wrote:I'm quite aware of the track record, thanks, I'm hardly a supporter of either's adventures.andyinasia wrote:Funny, my immediate reaction to 'worse track records' is Israel and the US.jm wrote:Well people do talk a bit about Pakistan and North Korea but it's rather more difficult to contemplate booting them from the club than denying Iran admission.
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YES. That would have taken me a very long post to say.jm wrote:Well people do talk a bit about Pakistan and North Korea but it's rather more difficult to contemplate booting them from the club than denying Iran admission.
I have some sympathy with the "Palesinian" people, not their leadership. The trouble is not with the Israeli's. They have had enough moderates to forge a peace deal. Sadly, they have no partner for peace. Hamas and Hezbollah are blatant terrorists. Fatah also supports terrorism: e.g., al-Aqsa Martyrs' Brigades.vladimir wrote:connie, you do know that for hundreds of thousands of Palestinians, the word 'tyrant' precisely describes their idea of the Israelis, right?
One man's meat is another man's poison...
One does not need to specifically target children and the elderly to fight an assymetric war: that is a choice. I reject the one man's terrorist is anothers freedom fighter. If the Palestinians employed snipers to hit police, soldiers and politicians I would not label them terrorists. Such a strategy is a real option for them. Instead they target the weak and the innocent. No one is going to convince me that firing rockets on primary schools, blowing up public transportation, or using suicide bombs in shopping malls is acceptable. And no, civilian casualties in a mission to hit a military target or kill a terrorist is not morally equivalent to suicide bombing or firing rockets at a civilian area for the sake of killing civilians.
As for the idea that Israel ought to give back the West Bank (in that they had annexed it during the six day war), this is silly. The Six day war was made necessary by Israel's aggressive neighbors and their designs on Israel. If you know you are about to be attacked, you have a right to defend yourself first, you do not need to wait to be struck first. Regardless, it is hypocracy to suggest that Israel ought to give th eland back. Should the US give Texas back to mexico. Should Poland give back the German territory it had annexed after WW2, etc... As far as I am concerned, the annexed territory should be considered asshole tax, a nice reminder to Israel's neighbors as to why they should not attack again. Besides, look at Israel's unilateral withdrawal and elmination of its settlements in Gaza. What did they get for the suffering they imposed on families that lived there? BUPKIS! Well, aside from the regular rocket attacks from gaza.
Meanwhile, palestinian religious, political, and intellectual elite speak in terms of genocide (when speaking arabic). Then when they speak English all we get is talk of compromise, human rights etc.... The day care centers and children's tv programming continue to indoctrinate the children in antisemitism.
Sorry, Israel does not have a partner for peace.
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So the Jewskis stole the ragheads deer too? Cunts.connecticuter wrote:Regardless, it is hypocracy to suggest that Israel ought to give the eland back.
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Ooohhh!!andyinasia wrote: I know, I was really responding to vlad's post, as you were. Indeed we're all on the same page. By the way, Conny's challenging us to rationally outline our reasons for refusing to arse-lick Zionism. My response is the same as it would be if a creationist challenged me to prove Genesis isn't inerrant literal truth - I've got better things to do with my time.
Not so. I am not asking people to either accept or challenge Zionism. Rather, I was asking people to rationally confront the propositions I had a asserted:
0. Iran's nuclear program is really an attempt to get nuclear weapons
1. it is in the interest of Israel to neutralize Iran's nuclear program
2. it is in the interest of the region to neutralize Iran's nuclear program
3. it is in the interest of the world to neutralize Iran's nuclear program
4. Pakistan is a failed state that uses it's nuclear weapons to destabilize the region and engage in terrorism
5. a nuclear Iran would mirrror pakistan in its behaviour and its status in the regional balance of power
6. only a military strike (as opposed to sanctions) will prevent Iran from entering the zone of immunity.
0-6 seem to be rejected by most here. Yet none have provided a serious argument against positions 0-6. Accepting 0-6 does not entail that you support zionism.
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