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Vietnam vs. China

A place for threads about our immediate South East Asian neighbours: Thailand, Vietnam, Lao PDR and Myanmar. News, views, stories, information and experiences and can be shared here.
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andyinasia
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Re: Vietnam vs. China

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Post by andyinasia » Wed May 14, 2014 10:42 am

TristranandIsolde wrote:
andyinasia wrote:This needn't be in the 'Not Cambodia' forum - it may affect Cambodia profoundly. Short of shooting, if China provokes Vietnam such that it must react with maximum diplomatic pressure, sucking in the UN and more significantly ASEAN neighbours, Japan and S Korea, Cambodia is going to be expected to choose a side. The government already came out on China's side in 2012, and that was before the Yuon-baiting CNRP joined the fray. Even worse, this could flare up simultaneously with a fascist take-over in Thailand, with militant nationalistic Khmer-haters looking for a sideshow to consolidate their coup. Could be in for a fruity summer.
Japan and S. Korea are not ASEAN member states. They are East Asian, ASEAN is for SE Asian states.

You sound quite sensationalist and are occasionally factually wrong. Not a cool-headed voice, almost hysterical.

Did you READ what I wrote? Far from hysterical. Firstly, I know damn well Japan and S Korea are not ASEAN members :roll: I referred to 3 bodies that have to respond to Chinese actions - the UN, ASEAN and the 2 aforementioned E Asian nations. I suggested that there will be no significant military action since no one will support an isolated nation standing up to China - that's hardly hysterical. To clarify, I said that amidst the diplomatic outfall, the Cambodian government, which is not known for it's careful tip-toeing through diplomatic minefields will back China and that will harm relations with other neighbours. It's worth noting that since I wrote the last post, Vietnamese mobs have torched ten factories owned by/erroneously thought to be owned by Chinese. Events are not as cosy as you present, and accusing anyone doubting your agenda of hysteria is unwarranted.

This blogger seems fair and informed, and will be updating his blog regularly.
http://blog.jonathanlondon.net/?p=422
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vladimir
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Re: Vietnam vs. China

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Post by vladimir » Wed May 14, 2014 6:43 pm

Just saw on BBC that several Chinese-owned factories/factories displaying Chinese characters on their signs in Vietnam are burning after protesters set them alight. :shock:

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-27403851

Several factories have been set on fire amid anti-China protests at an industrial park in southern Vietnam, amid tensions over the South China Sea.

The park's management said three factories were set on fire on Tuesday, but other reports put the figure as high as 15.

No casualties have been reported but officials said many arrests were made.

The protests came after China moved a drilling rig into waters claimed by Vietnam earlier this month.

In a daily press briefing, a Chinese Foreign Ministry spokesman said Vietnam was a "provocateur" and that Beijing had expressed concern to Hanoi.

Amid reports that Taiwanese factories in the park had sustained damage, Taiwan strongly condemned the protest and summoned the Vietnamese envoy to Taipei to express serious concern, according to state media.

'Chinese targeted'
The management of the Vietnam Singapore Industrial Park (VSIP) said that protesters gathered on Monday in Thuan An town, in the southern Binh Duong province.

Continue reading the main story
Analysis

image of Nga Pham
Nga Pham
BBC News
Nationalist sentiment of this intensity has not been seen in Vietnam for many years.

Tuesday's protests in Binh Duong confirmed the government's worst fear, that nationalism could easily get out of hand, posing a great risk not only to the business environment but also to domestic political stability.

The Vietnamese authorities were quick to condemn the anti-China violence and arrested some people they called "agitators".

But critics say that other contributing factors such as social discontent and limited labour rights cannot be overlooked.

On Tuesday they moved on to VSIP's two industrial parks nearby and targeted factories owned or managed by the Chinese and Chinese expatriates.

A spokesman for VSIP told the BBC the three factories were set on fire on Tuesday evening after workers had gone home.

Not all of the tenants of the three factories were Chinese companies, she said. Some Taiwanese companies had been affected.

Other reports suggested the violence was more widespread, with more factories targeted.

A local official estimated that around 19,000 workers took part in the protest and that at least 15 factories were set on fire, according to local media. Some are reportedly owned by Taiwanese and South Korean companies.

One photo carried by Vietnamese media showed a factory had draped a South Korean flag at its entrance in a bid to stave off attacks.

The BBC also spoke to an employee of a Singaporean company in the industrial park who saw four burnt buildings on Wednesday morning.

Another eight were partially damaged, and had shattered windows and smashed front gates. These included buildings belonging to a Taiwan-founded shoe company.

"The protesters appeared to have targeted companies that had Chinese characters in their logos or signs," said the employee, who declined to be named.

Anti-China protesters wave Vietnamese flags as they rally on a street in Binh Duong on 13 May
Protesters reportedly started gathering on Monday and grew in strength by Tuesday evening
An employee of a Chinese company raises her hands while trying to stop Vietnamese protesters in Binh Duong province on 14 May.
Employees of companies in the Vietnam Singapore Industrial Park appealed to protesters to stop
In this picture taken on 13 May, police officers stand with protective shields on the side of a street in Binh Duong, as anti-China protesters set factories on fire in Vietnam.
Police officers with riot gear arrived at the industrial park on Tuesday evening as protesters attacked buildings
The protest has spooked some foreign companies.

Reuters reported that Hong Kong-listed sports shoe maker Yue Yuen, which supplies footwear to Adidas, Nike and other international brands, had suspended production in Vietnam.

Earlier this month, China moved its Haiyang Shiyou 981 oil rig to a spot 120 nautical miles off the coast of Vietnam.

The area is near the Paracel Islands, over which China and Vietnam have contesting claims.

BBC Map
The move sparked bitter protest from the Vietnamese government, which demanded an immediate pull-out.

Last week, several collisions were reported between ships from the two countries as Vietnam sought to block the installation of the rig.

Ships have also been exchanging water cannon fire and dozens of vessels are reported to be in the area.

Protests have been staged in Hanoi and Ho Chi Minh City over the past week, while on Tuesday the US warned China that its actions were "provocative".

'Intentions not clear'
Beijing claims a U-shaped swathe of the South China Sea that covers areas other South East Asian nations say are their territory.

In this photo released by Vietnam Coast Guard, a Chinese ship, left, shoots water cannon at a Vietnamese vessel, right, while a Chinese Coast Guard ship, centre, sails alongside in the South China Sea, off Vietnam's coast, Wednesday, 7 May 2014
Ships from Vietnam and China have been exchanging water cannon fire
The issue has been rumbling in recent years amid an increasingly assertive stance from China over its claims.

The Philippines on Wednesday accused China of reclaiming land on a disputed South China Sea reef in order to build a new facility - possibly an airstrip or a military base.

Manila lodged a protest last month after images taken from the air showed China had been moving materials into Johnson Reef in the Spratly Islands, officials said.

"We're not exactly sure what are their intentions there," Foreign Secretary Albert del Rosario told the Associated Press news agency.

Ties between Beijing and Manila have deteriorated severely in recent months because of the territorial row.

Manila is taking Beijing to an international court over the issue. It also recently signed a security deal with the US allowing more troops onto its soil, in a move seen as reflecting the difficult ties with China.
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ירי ילדים והפצצת אזרחים דורש אומץ, כמו גם הטרדה מינית של עובדי ההוראה.
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vladimir
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Post by vladimir » Wed May 14, 2014 6:51 pm

TristranandIsolde wrote:
vladimir wrote:
TristranandIsolde wrote:Japan and S. Korea are not ASEAN member states.
They may not be full members, but iirc, they have observer status, and to deny their influence would be stupid.

S. Korea is the biggest investor here, at least in textiles, they have investments in Vietnam as well. Money talks.
Can they vote in ASEAN? Hold a chair? No.
Can/do they influence what happens? Yes. That's the point.
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ירי ילדים והפצצת אזרחים דורש אומץ, כמו גם הטרדה מינית של עובדי ההוראה.
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Post by TristranandIsolde » Thu May 15, 2014 3:39 am

vladimir wrote:
TristranandIsolde wrote:
vladimir wrote:
TristranandIsolde wrote:Japan and S. Korea are not ASEAN member states.
They may not be full members, but iirc, they have observer status, and to deny their influence would be stupid.

S. Korea is the biggest investor here, at least in textiles, they have investments in Vietnam as well. Money talks.
Can they vote in ASEAN? Hold a chair? No.
Can/do they influence what happens? Yes. That's the point.
Just trying to clarify. That's all.

The US and the UN influence. They are DEFINITELY not ASEAN.

Perhaps his sentence was construed in a way that could have multiple meanings. Read it over.

And about the other post, that's in Vietnam, not in Cambodia. Happens when a Thai actress says something political on TV too.

Actually, there is a minor/major revolution in Asia in recent years (more frequently with the advent of mass media) every 20-30 years in my opinion. Could be minor, it has been major revolution.

The Chinese get blamed for things all the time. They are often helpless targets too, since they come in without force, have weaker (cheaper) security and try to blend in as a survival technique. Happens every 20 years now.
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Post by andyinasia » Thu May 15, 2014 11:02 am

Do you still insist everything's hunky-dory?

http://www.trust.org/item/20140515030756-x7n20

Video

http://www.scmp.com/video?movideo_m=817679

Here's the next installment of the blog I linked to yesterday, highlighting the political crisis unleashed in Vietnam
http://blog.jonathanlondon.net/?p=449


Meanwhile, emboldened by events in Ukraine, here's China grabbing a reef off the Philippines yesterday
Image

whilst things are cracking off in Bangkok
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/m ... in-bangkok

Hysteria? Really?
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Post by vladimir » Fri May 16, 2014 6:36 am

TristranandIsolde wrote:The Chinese get blamed for things all the time.
Right, they are the poor innocents. In countries worldwide they steal resources by corrupting government individuals and people die in the process, but they can't be blamed, no sir.

Wake up and smell the coffee.
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ירי ילדים והפצצת אזרחים דורש אומץ, כמו גם הטרדה מינית של עובדי ההוראה.
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Post by Kellri23 » Fri May 16, 2014 8:12 am

I live in Saigon, a single father with 2 half-Taiwanese kids that attend the Int'l Taipei School. Classes have been indefinitely cancelled after a local mob tried to firebomb the school on Tuesday night. The Korean and Japanese schools on the same street are also closed. Vietnamese can't seem to be able to tell one Asian apart from another. Here's video from the Chinese press:

My 12 year daughter's best friend was nearly murdered that same evening. Every window in her home was busted and her dad held off the horde by busting motherfuckers in the chops with a pipe wrench. The cops stood across the street and helped their cuntrymen park their motorbikes. Things got settled around 5AM when a crew of very hard Taiwanese 'brothers' showed up in SUVs to drive off the cops, set the motorbikes on fire, and engage in some rather primeval racial diplomacy.

According to the Vietnamese press they arrested 200. Arrested in this case means taken out for a seafood dinner and beer in Lai Thieu and told to wait for the next phone call.

Contacting the US Embassy was next to useless. After waiting on hold for nearly an hour a Vietnamese woman finally answered and advised me to monitor their website for security updates from the State Dept. and perhaps consider moving my family back to China (WTF?!).

We're taking in any and all Taiwanese kids that need a safe space this week to eat and sleep. Many of their families are preparing to shut down their factories and leave the country. If that happens, things in Binh Duong and Dong Nai are going to get much worse before they get better. That's just my 2 cents.
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Post by andyinasia » Fri May 16, 2014 9:05 am

Image
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Post by vladimir » Fri May 16, 2014 9:10 am

cue: new Chinese restaurants opening in Phnom Penh. Lock up your dogs, Viet-Chinese, bad combo.

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ירי ילדים והפצצת אזרחים דורש אומץ, כמו גם הטרדה מינית של עובדי ההוראה.
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Post by RainMan » Fri May 16, 2014 10:30 am

USA now backs off...
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-05-1 ... ted-waters

Biden has meeting with Fang. (I did not make that up)
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Post by prahocalypse now » Fri May 16, 2014 10:57 am

Kellri23 wrote:I live in Saigon, a single father with 2 half-Taiwanese kids that attend the Int'l Taipei School. Classes have been indefinitely cancelled after a local mob tried to firebomb the school on Tuesday night.
That's shocking. I hope that you and your family stay safe.
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Post by vladimir » Fri May 16, 2014 11:47 am

'In a somewhat stunningly hypocritical step for a nation that seems so hell-bent on proclaiming Russia's provocative actions as tantamount to World War over Ukraine, the White House has issued a statement "taking no position" on China's "disputes" in the China Seas...

*BIDEN MEETS CHINESE ARMY CHIEF OF STAFF FANG AT WHITE HOUSE
*BIDEN SAYS U.S. TAKES NO POSITION ON TERRITORY CLAIMS AT ISSUE
*BIDEN SAYS NATIONS SHOULD AVOID PROVOCATIVE STEPS IN DISPUTES

Damn. Beijing will be partying tonight. This is a defining moment in history, all downhill now.Maybe slowly, but all downhill.

The double standards are disgusting.
> 0
ירי ילדים והפצצת אזרחים דורש אומץ, כמו גם הטרדה מינית של עובדי ההוראה.
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Post by Kellri23 » Fri May 16, 2014 11:51 am

It's nasty and not looking any better. I'm almost certainly going to be fired from my job teaching Vietnamese public high school students and groceries will be in short supply come the end of the month. I couldn't in good conscience continue to teach Viet kids when mine have to hole up in an apartment. I'm making another run down to the countryside today to pick up their remaining cousins and have instructed the housekeeper to keep cooking that rice soup and make sure there's a case of beer and 2 joints laid on and waiting for me when I get back.

Oh, and Biden and that entire administration can suck my dick.
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Post by Chuangt2u » Fri May 16, 2014 12:30 pm

vladimir wrote:'In a somewhat stunningly hypocritical step for a nation that seems so hell-bent on proclaiming Russia's provocative actions as tantamount to World War over Ukraine, the White House has issued a statement "taking no position" on China's "disputes" in the China Seas...

*BIDEN MEETS CHINESE ARMY CHIEF OF STAFF FANG AT WHITE HOUSE
*BIDEN SAYS U.S. TAKES NO POSITION ON TERRITORY CLAIMS AT ISSUE
*BIDEN SAYS NATIONS SHOULD AVOID PROVOCATIVE STEPS IN DISPUTES

Damn. Beijing will be partying tonight. This is a defining moment in history, all downhill now.Maybe slowly, but all downhill.

The double standards are disgusting.
This surprises you?
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