I'm tired of this Earth's demise bullshit. How egotistical can we be to think we're going to destroy the entire planet. We're not unlikey at this point, in my opinion, to kill off ourselves, and maybe %90 of Earth's species, but we're not so likely to make it an uninhabbitable place. Whatever's left will thrive, grow, spread, and evolve and life will cover the Earth again.
There have been something like 9 mass extinctions on Earth (sorry, that's from my less than perfect memory). The first one was caused by the toxic excriments from many of the simple, single-celled species living at that time. One of the cheif pollutants was oxygen. Oxygen.
Makes you think a bit, doesn't it?
I think we need to be a little more realistic, and realize that we're going to screw our ownselves big time (uh, and maybe 90% of species on Earth along with us).
The Earth will live on without us, and I think she may not be so sad to see us go.
Americans not heard of global warming
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only the CIA would spout such nonsense, there are simply too many of us chewing up the worlds resources , and again America is the main culprit then china , two extremely egotistical societies.. less people =less demand .Solar and wind power will alllow those groups of people left to survive . Read George Stewarts book published in 1949 and an American . what we need is for America to admit it's fucked the world over , stop breeding fo 50 years and let us all live
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There's no doubt that solar, wind, geo-thermal, hydro-electric, tidal, and even bio-fuels can provide more than enough power for society. At least until humans (hopefully) achieve fusion power.
Oil can be used to produce a large amount of energy. This is why it was originally used in the first place. Today, alternative energy can serve almost all our needs. Certain applications, such as jet engines, require oil based fuels, and therefore prove a limited need for oil production.
The use of automobiles is a very primitive method of travel, in comparison to the myriad of advances technology has made. With a new system of travel, 90+% of the current vehicles (including all those big, fancy NGO rides) would be obsolete. In fact, most people would think it a chore to drive them.
Trucks would still be needed to move very large objects around, as well as smaller vehicles such as fuel efficient cars and motos for rural areas.
So what system could we use? What kind of personal transportation, that is fuel efficient, safe, and reliable, could we replace with the current automobile infrastructure? It must last a long time and be cost-effective to implement. It should create jobs that can offset the job losses in industries that are dependent on the automobile infrastructure. And finally, it should protect the environment.
One solution, that is realistic and practical, is CULOR (Computerized, Ultra-Light Overhead, Rail). It was on the web for a long time, but it’s now removed. The best example of a similar system is here (please take this photo tour before continuing on to the rest of the post please).
http://www.skytran.net/01QuickTour/qt001.htm
I will also reprint the original CULOR pages (without images):
But, what if some small, impoverished nation, like Cambodia, were to build it and implement it. Granted, they don’t have the expertise to construct it, but the system isn’t that advanced, either.
If you are interested in more information on personal mass transit, check these links:
http://www.skytran.net/index.htm
http://faculty.washington.edu/jbs/itrans/cabin.htm
http://www.intelligenttransportation.com/
http://www.swedetrack.com/flyway1.htm
http://faculty.washington.edu/jbs/itrans/cablift.htm
http://www.evworld.com/view.cfm?page=ar ... oryid=1025
http://www.taxi2000.com/
http://www.smartskyways.com/index.html
Oil can be used to produce a large amount of energy. This is why it was originally used in the first place. Today, alternative energy can serve almost all our needs. Certain applications, such as jet engines, require oil based fuels, and therefore prove a limited need for oil production.
The use of automobiles is a very primitive method of travel, in comparison to the myriad of advances technology has made. With a new system of travel, 90+% of the current vehicles (including all those big, fancy NGO rides) would be obsolete. In fact, most people would think it a chore to drive them.
Trucks would still be needed to move very large objects around, as well as smaller vehicles such as fuel efficient cars and motos for rural areas.
So what system could we use? What kind of personal transportation, that is fuel efficient, safe, and reliable, could we replace with the current automobile infrastructure? It must last a long time and be cost-effective to implement. It should create jobs that can offset the job losses in industries that are dependent on the automobile infrastructure. And finally, it should protect the environment.
One solution, that is realistic and practical, is CULOR (Computerized, Ultra-Light Overhead, Rail). It was on the web for a long time, but it’s now removed. The best example of a similar system is here (please take this photo tour before continuing on to the rest of the post please).
http://www.skytran.net/01QuickTour/qt001.htm
I will also reprint the original CULOR pages (without images):
A link now removed from the internet wrote: CULOR is individualized mass transit, a small limousine that you can ride for the price of a bus. It takes you to where you want to go, when you want to go, by yourself, or with a friend. While you travel you can sleep, watch TV, use your computer, read a book, talk on the phone, or watch the scenery go by below.
CULOR glides along at forty to sixty miles an hour suspended fifteen to twenty feet off the ground beneath a tube shaped track. The ride is very quiet and very smooth. There are no traffic jams and CULOR is completely indifferent to the weather. Torrential rains, blizzards, or pea soup fogs won't affect the time it takes to get to your destination. You can't say "Oh I got stuck in a terrible traffic jam, sorry I'm late." No more traffic excuses.
No one dies and no one gets hurt, going places on CULOR. You are never too drunk to get home safely. CULOR requires no skill and no licence to use, children do it. It's how most of them get to school. They walk from their neighborhoods to the CULOR line and take CULOR cars off to a half a dozen different schools. CULOR revolutionizes education because kids go to schools with the appropriate programs to meet their individual needs and even move between schools during the day. Small schools, tucked away in neighborhoods, not a factory, serviced by a fleet of busses.
CULOR doesn't need a bypass but goes directly across the city, flying an expressway's load of passengers above narrow streets. The shortest distance between two points is a straight line again. Town centers flourish as CULOR brings shoppers without their cars and parking hassles. There is even a CULOR stop inside of Macy's second floor. "Ladies lingerie, men's stockings-- CULOR." CULOR will take you to the hospital. In an emergency, CULOR will take you into the hospital.
CULOR walks across the land on small light feet. Only the footings of its pylons that support the rail are bedded into the earth. Most of the time it follows preexisting roads and streets but occasionally it slips scross a wetland with very little disruption to the ecosystem. It takes visitors to the edge of the Grand Canyon and through the valley of Yellow Stone without noise, congestion, or pollution. CULOR jumps a small river without a bridge, goes across a farmer's field without disturbing cow or corn.
Gone from the cities of the developing world is their usual horrendous noise and air pollution. CULOR, cleanly and quietly moves enormous amounts of passengers while leaving the space below available for people to walk. When it loops out of Kathmandu across the Himalayan foothills, CULOR carries along electric utitlity and communicat/data lines tucked into the interior of its track. CULOR saves India the crushing cost of building an extensive road system and buying foreign oil to fuel its cars. CULOR with its pylons bedded in permafrost brings visitors to the edge of the Arctic Sea and allows the residents of the far north to travel in summer or winter.
Page 2 wrote: Culor is a computer-guided, electrically powered car travelling suspended beneath a single overhead rail. CULOR is as much a data system as it is a hardware system. Each car has an on-board computer which acts as its executive. The computer's program covers any entuality that can occur in a closed system. The CULOR car is a self-directed, free-roaming entity, able to move on it's own to where it is needed. Cars move toward the suburbs during the night in preparation for the morning commute and into the central district in the afternon for the return leg.
Car The car weighs approximately 600 pounds empty. It seats two adults and has room for a reasonable amount of baggage. It is heated, air conditioned, has comfortable seats and large windows. Because of its light weight, narrow aerodynamic profile, and low coefficient of friction on the track, the CULOR car's electric motors draw only ten to fifteen percent of the energy required for automobile travel.
Track and right-of-way. A self-supporting tubular structure houses the double-tracked rail on which ride the two trolleys, attached to the front and rear of the car suspended below. The tubular structure is open underneath to allow the struts that connect the car to the trolleys to extend down between the two tracks. The two trolleys are each driven by an electric motor. These receive their power from inside the tubular rail. Steering is incorporated into the trolleys, leaving the rail passive in this regard. The track runs above the existing streets and roadways, utilizing an unoccupied space in existing public right-of-ways. CULOR is an additive system. Its implementation will not disrupt existing traffic patterns for automobiles, railroads, or pedestrians.
One CULOR rail, not much wider than a bike path, can carry an expressway's load of commuters. The drive motors are inside the tube so what little noise they generate is contained and muffled. Being small and quiet, CULOR is welcomed when it loops into the interiors of shopping malls, hospitals, train stations, airport terminals, and municipal buildings.
"Fast tracks" Long routes from distant suburbs to the city carry traffic on "Fast Tracks". The same cars that run on local commuter routes are formed into trains, greatly reducing air resistance. The and a modest increase in power will yeild speeds in the neighborhood of 100 miles per hour.
Tube The hollow interior of the CULOR tube can carry electrical service, data transmission, and city lighting. The net effect of CULOR is to simplify the visual scene by incorporating diverse elements into a single well-designed entity.
Handicap Handicap access is designed into the cars which fold their seats out of the way in order to accept wheelchairs. Stations and stops are handicap accessible. Special informational needs are easily accomodated because the communication interface is between only one person and the car's computer. The visually impaired or those with literacy difficulties can get their information by auditory means while the hearing impaired can use a visual interface. A traveler has the option of recieving information; visual and auditory, in dozens of different languages. These special needs are encoded on the riders' access card so the car's informational interface is formatted to their needs as they enter.
Unmanned delivery With large doors and seats folded out of the way the CULOR car is an ideal unmanned delivery vehicle. CULOR cars have substantial cargo space, can carry approximately 700 pounds and have the ability to go where they are sent. An unmanned delivery operation carrying goods between terminals or point to point on the system is quite practical.
Compatibility CULOR systems will start in diverse locations serving specific functions such as urban shopping loops. In time, these seperate CULOR systems will grow outward from their points of origins, meet at their peripheries and begin to interconnect. Compatibility of all the functional structures, physical and informational, will be necessary at this point.
What could we save? If we could magically replace the automobile/road system with a CULOR network what would we save? We could save all of the 43,000 lives lost each year and all the injuries caused by automobile accidents. No one should ever get hurt or killed using a well-designed, well-maintained CULOR system. We would save all the money we spend on automobile insurance. We would save 90% or more of the fuel cars use, 95% of the air pollution they produce, 80% to 85% of the space they take up for roadway and parking, and eliminate 90% of the noise they make. We would reduce stress, save travel time, save our landscape and revitalize our town centers.
Figuring the cost. It will cost about four million dollars to build a mile of CULOR. This is for the pylons that support the rails, two sets of rails carrying traffic in opposite directions, and one hundred cars per mile of track. This figure assumes no land acquisition cost, because most of the time, there will be none.
Cost per car. In terms of the cost of a single car, it comes out to $40,000 per car, with the rail system included. Lets assume a thirty year life. Each car would have to generate $3.65 per day in income to pay for the system over the thirty years. We'll multiply that figure by 3 to cover interest, energy, maintenence, and data services. $10.95 per car per day will buy the system, cover all costs, and maybe even make a small profit.
Page 3 wrote: Where is the money to build CULOR?
There is a mountain, an Everest, of dollars being spent every year to maintain and run the present automobile/road system. In 1994, we Americans spent 70 billion private dollars just to repair our cars. This was a portion of the 495 billion private dollars we spent to buy, run, and maintain our 192 million cars which we collectively drove 2.3 trillion miles using, in the process, 140 billion gallons of gasoline.*
Size and cost of a national system. A national CULOR system of 200,000 miles would cover all major urban thoroughfares and most of the interstate highway system. Such a system would handle the lion's share of our national transportation need. If we could divert 80 billion dollars a year from what be are spending on the automobile, we could build a national CULOR system in ten years. By the time the system is constructed it will have paid for itself.
When? CULOR is possible now because it is a configuration of already existing technologies. To develop a CULOR system requires only a exercise of engineering and technology integration. It will not be necessary to abandon the present system to build CULOR nor to coerce riders to get it used. Drivers locked in a traffic jam on the Long Island Expressway will look overhead and see the CULOR cars whizzing along. That is all it will take.
CULOR is the single most important thing we can do to save the environment. For this reason, I have decided not to patent any part or whole of this system but instead, to put whatever is unique about CULOR into the public domain. CULOR will allow us to recapture the beauty of our landscape and the civilization of our urban centers.
• Figures cited are from Motor Vehicle Facts and Figures 1995, publication of the Automobile Manufacturers Association.
Page 4 wrote: System
Analog to the automobile
private conveyance
non scheduled departures
numerous departure/arrival stops
follows existing road system
Organized as a utility service
Culor Hardware
Suspended configuration
better inertial stability
more compact configuration
protect running gear and track surface from weather
Active steering by car
decentralized system
Ultra light weight
fit to human scale and weight- appropriately scaled vehicle
low cost
low energy usage
longer rail spans between pylons
lighter weight rails and pylons
Two passengers-- riding one in front of the other
narrow profile
increased flexibility for fitting existing street patterns
better aerodynamics
two passengers or less is the overwhelming norm in automobile usage.
two or more cars can be linked by data communication to travel as a unit, allowing a group or family to travel together.
Tubular gateway form
rigid
less weight
internal track and guide structures add rigidity --pylons can be farther apart
internal voids for power lines-data lines-communication links
non-exotic materials
non-exotic fabrication techniques
more compact
rack protected from weather
electric motor drive:
non exotic, proven technology
motors and trolleys fit inside gateway
isolating passengers and surrounding environment from noise and vibration
protect running gear from weather
power accessed from inside gateway
battery backup powers cars off gateway into stations during power failures
Computerization
Assignments of the car's on board computer:
plot route on the system
communicate with passenger
maintain safe relationship to other cars
adhere to gateway and station rules
interface with other cars while traveling in "pod" and "train" platoons
monitor the car's mechanical condition
ring car in for regular servicing
Cars have assigned traffic duties which they attend to in this hierarchical order:
go to where the passenger request
go to where the main computer request
go towards the stations most densely used at the particular time of day
enter stations requesting cars
enter a designated parking facility in densely utilized area
Central computer:
adjust regional system by communicating with cars and stations
orders cars to specific locations to meet unusual demand
Station computers:
controls queuing routines depending on number of transactions occurring
controls the daily cycle of assigned cars in the station
signals for more cars when needed.
flush extra cars out to system
Travel - Gateways
Gateways
Gateways are marked with a data strip so that cars read their exact position, direction and speed on a continuous basis.
Cars travel on gateways at specified speeds which vary with the gateway's function.
commuter lines have a fixed speed in the range of 40-50 m.p.h.
high speed lines have a fixed speed in the range of 80-100 m.p.h.
shopping loops have a fixed speed in the range of 20-30 m.p.h.
Once on a gateway traveling at the gateway's assigned speed, cars only vary their rate to adjust their position in relation to other cars.
Ramps from one gateway to another are designed to allow merging cars to reach the destination gateway's fixed speed ( 47 m.p.h. for example).
The judicious setting of gateway speeds can be used to even out traffic flows to avoid congestion.BR>
Speeds affixed to individual gateways can be changed to accommodate flow patterns at various times of the day and to react to traffic conditions.
Cars already on the destination gateway will see the merging car as a phantom, located where it will be in relationship to them when it arrives, so they can adjust their rate of travel to accommodate it.
Stations
Stations are usually a simple loop of gateway that descends to street level and reascends to join the main track.
In urban situations stations displace ten or twelve automobile parking spaces along the street next to the curb.
Stations have only a platform at the level of the cars floor and some fencing for safety purposes.
Stations, like cars, have computers and are active entities.
Stations are inexpensive to build and numerous.
Numerous stations add to the specificity of the system, allowing passengers to get to, or very close to, their desired destination.
Stations absorb and store cars on a short term basis helping to regulate the system's flow.
Three Types of Platoons --Trains, Pods, and Cohorts
Trains and pods are groups of cars that form a unit and travel together.
Trains are actually coupled together using electromagnets at the front and rear of the car's trolleys.
Trains link cars together in an aerodynamically efficient unit able to achieve high speed travel on designated gateways.
Pods are cars that move as a group with little space between pod members.
The lead car, in trains and pods, keeps a greater distance to the end of the next pod or train.
Pods and trains are ethereal entities; forming spontaneously, changing membership and leaders, and dispersing.
Cohorts are groups of cars formed into handling units within the station by the station computer.
I believe his design concept to be truly innovative. But I believe it will be a long time before this has any chance of seeing implementation. There are too many fat cats and oil/automobile companies making way to much money to even this to happen.Last page wrote: I have read the debate between Dr. Anderson and Professor Vuchic along with the various comments on the debate by others. The debate itself is symptomatic of why such a good idea as PRT has languished in obscurity for so long. Proponents of PRT tend to be transportation professionals and look at PRT systems only in terms of transportation issues. In the debate, everyone becomes trapped in a mass transit imbroglio. Mass transit, which has riders in large conveyances, on a rigid schedule, cooped up with strangers, is not an attractive or reasonable option. No one actually wants to travel in those conditions. If they did, then plenty of mass transit options would be already working, having been demanded by a vocal constituency. The vocal political and economic constituency has been for roads and automobiles because the desire is for independent personal travel.
The solution is not better mass transit but, rather, an alternative to the automobile. Replacing the automobile is the only practical means for solving a host of serious, often deadly, problems. To replace the automobile, a new system will have to compete successfully against the strengths of the automobile. This can be accomplished by a PRT system. The money and political attention that now flow to automobiles can be rechanneled, by normal competitive pressures, to support the new system.
I live on a dirt road in rural Pennsylvania. I have spent the last four years, on and off, designing CULOR , a suspended PRT system, but my interest is not primarily focused on transportation. I am interested in the future, and I see a bleak future, unless a way can be found to replace the automobile. The automobile once offered freedom, convenience, and economic growth, but it has now become a monster by amplification. Automobile induced air pollution and petroleum usage are conjoined evil twins whose effects are obvious in our cities and horrendous in most third world cities. Breathing Mexico City's air is equal to smoking two packs of cigarettes a day. There are other more immediate dangers. In the United States in 1995, there were fourteen million automobile accidents which resulted in forty two thousand deaths and over two million injuries. Added to issues of health, safety, and energy usage, are the peripheral liabilities of outrageous land usage, decay of urban centers, and the trashing of our countryside.
Our industrial culture and civilization is supported on a petroleum bubble which will pop, like a pricked balloon, when the oil reserves start to run out. We had a preview of things to come during the Arab oil embargo in the mid-seventies. In the economic "stagflation" that resulted, prices for all energy related and petrochemical based segments of the economy, like food and plastics, spiraled rapidly upward while the larger economy became moribund. Our modern industrial economy runs on an oil standard just as previous economies had a gold standard. Even modern agriculture runs a calorie deficit with the energy input from petroleum being greater than the food calorie return. Our government clearly understands the situation, having been willing to put troops on the ground in the Persian Gulf to secure supply lines.
In 1994 we Americans used one hundred and forty billion gallons of gasoline in our cars. As the great populations of the third world continue to industrialize, they will become more insistent competitors for oil reserves and the rate of reserve depletion will rapidly accelerate. Gasoline usage is currently increasing by seven percent a year in China. We need a replacement system for the automobile so that the Chinese, Indonesians, Indians, Southeast Asians, and South Americans will have an alternative to following our bad example. There are some estimates that the proven oil reserves will be start to run out fairly early in the next century. Getting a handle on usage now can put off this inevitable moment, allowing us some time to develop alternative sources of energy.
Air pollution, safety, and energy conservation are problems a PRT system can cure. Compared to the automobile; a national CULOR style PRT system would save ten of thousands of lives each year, avoid over a million injuries, save hundreds of billions of dollars in operating costs, use less than ten percent of the fuel and produce less than five percent of the air pollution.
To function as a competitor to the automobile, a PRT system would , like the automobile, have to be practically everywhere. A national CULOR/PRT system with two hundred thousand miles of guideway would be a full scaffold with enough mileage to cover every major urban and suburban thoroughfare in the country. It would also connect urban centers using the interstate highway right-of-ways. A national CULOR/PRT system this size would require about eight hundred billion dollars to build.
Now, eight hundred billion dollars is a goodly sum, but I can show you the money!
In 1993, we Americans spent five hundred and sixty billion private consumer dollars to buy, run, insure, and fix our cars. For the individual, the bill is proportionately high. The average new automobile bought and driven twelve thousand miles a year, cost the owner thirty thousand dollars during the first five years. The various levels of government spent another eighty six and a half billion dollars to build and maintain the road system. The total, six hundred and forty eight billion dollars, is almost half of what we spend to run federal government. One of the positive fallouts from a national PRT system will be a much more efficient economy.
Proponents of PRT systems have focused on mass transit imagery in part, I believe, to avoid the attention of the powerful economic and political forces attached to the highway/automobile complex. The problem is that there is very little money for mass transit, while roads and cars are soaking up enormous amounts of funding. In order for PRT to have any chance of succeeding, someone is going to have to poke that bear and I, for one, would like to have some powerful friends standing nearby when it happens.
CULOR, my own version of PRT, is more a data system and a child of electricity than a thing of hardware. Let's recruit the power utilities and perhaps the communication utilities to the task of building a PRT system. They have nothing to lose and a tremendous amount to gain in the conversion of the automobile into a regulated utility that they control. There are hundreds of billions of dollars, now going to the automobile, that are up for grabs. The situation is somewhat like the mid-nineteenth century when the railroads were given right-of-ways as an incentive to lay track. A deal can be brokered, trading access to the space above the highway system in return for guarantees to build a system and appropriate governmental regulation. The utilities are powerful in their own right and able to hold their own against the entrenched highway interest. They are accustomed to issues surrounding public right-of-ways and well schooled in methods of getting research funding out of the government. While the Department of Transportation has been unresponsive to PRT for decades, the Department of Energy and the Environmental Protection Agency may be more helpful in the end.
A PRT system, designed to displace the automobile, will have rather tight design parameters. It will need to fit and operate above the existing city streets. This dictates a small profile with a turning radius of the standard automobile. Like the automobile, it will stop many places, needing numerous off-line stations that can tuck into the existing city scape. Automobiles are driven from any place to any place in the road system, travel decisions being controlled by the driver rather than a central agency. Auto travel is partially controlled by speed limits, rules of the road and conditions. In the PRT system, the rider decides where and were to go with the car's computer acting as chauffeur. As in the road system, the computer's options are constrained by traffic conditions and rules of the system. Like the road system, there will be expressways for fast travel and slower gateways for various other functions and conditions.
This is not hard stuff. We are a technical culture that can arrange for a space probe to fly near a moon of Jupiter. We can also put a couple of passengers in a car and use electric motors to carry them along a guideway. We can do this conveniently, safely, and in multiples of millions by applying existing and rather mundane technology.
But, what if some small, impoverished nation, like Cambodia, were to build it and implement it. Granted, they don’t have the expertise to construct it, but the system isn’t that advanced, either.
If you are interested in more information on personal mass transit, check these links:
http://www.skytran.net/index.htm
http://faculty.washington.edu/jbs/itrans/cabin.htm
http://www.intelligenttransportation.com/
http://www.swedetrack.com/flyway1.htm
http://faculty.washington.edu/jbs/itrans/cablift.htm
http://www.evworld.com/view.cfm?page=ar ... oryid=1025
http://www.taxi2000.com/
http://www.smartskyways.com/index.html
I'm tired of this Earth's demise bullshit. How egotistical can we be to think we're going to destroy the entire planet. We're not unlikey at this point, in my opinion, to kill off ourselves, and maybe %90 of Earth's species, but we're not so likely to make it an uninhabbitable place. Whatever's left will thrive, grow, spread, and evolve and life will cover the Earth again.
But it won't be your life rebirthing itself and spreading around the globe. The 40 million Bengladeshis who live below 1 meter above the waterline will have to go and live somewhere. That somewhere may be right near where you live. Or once lived.
How egotistical is it to want your kids to grow up in a civilised and viable world? These environmental changes will have a massive impact on every kid born yesterday, today or tomorrow.I live in Australia most of the year, so I will always have somewhere else to go when the shit hits the fan. Most Asians will not have that luxury. That is when the shit will hit the fan: when, for example, sea water surges up the Mekong Delta at certain times and salts the soil that grows half of Vietnam's rice.
Your relaxed attitude to 'global warming' is not at all reassuring, I'm afraid.
But it won't be your life rebirthing itself and spreading around the globe. The 40 million Bengladeshis who live below 1 meter above the waterline will have to go and live somewhere. That somewhere may be right near where you live. Or once lived.
How egotistical is it to want your kids to grow up in a civilised and viable world? These environmental changes will have a massive impact on every kid born yesterday, today or tomorrow.I live in Australia most of the year, so I will always have somewhere else to go when the shit hits the fan. Most Asians will not have that luxury. That is when the shit will hit the fan: when, for example, sea water surges up the Mekong Delta at certain times and salts the soil that grows half of Vietnam's rice.
Your relaxed attitude to 'global warming' is not at all reassuring, I'm afraid.
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Let me elaborate on my point. What I'm saying is: We will not destroy the Earth. We will destroy ourselves.lazlett wrote:I'm tired of this Earth's demise bullshit. How egotistical can we be to think we're going to destroy the entire planet. We're not unlikey at this point, in my opinion, to kill off ourselves, and maybe %90 of Earth's species, but we're not so likely to make it an uninhabbitable place. Whatever's left will thrive, grow, spread, and evolve and life will cover the Earth again.
But it won't be your life rebirthing itself and spreading around the globe. The 40 million Bengladeshis who live below 1 meter above the waterline will have to go and live somewhere. That somewhere may be right near where you live. Or once lived.
How egotistical is it to want your kids to grow up in a civilised and viable world? These environmental changes will have a massive impact on every kid born yesterday, today or tomorrow.I live in Australia most of the year, so I will always have somewhere else to go when the shit hits the fan. Most Asians will not have that luxury. That is when the shit will hit the fan: when, for example, sea water surges up the Mekong Delta at certain times and salts the soil that grows half of Vietnam's rice.
Your relaxed attitude to 'global warming' is not at all reassuring, I'm afraid.
We are but one species amongst many that has existed, does exist, and will exist in the future. The amount of time we've been here is just a blink of the Earth's eyelashes. That was my point. We are much more important to ourselves than we are to the Earth.
I'm absolutely not, in any way, saying we should just go on as is, burn oil, build nukes, dump mercury in the ocean, etc etc.
I (tried) to make this point to bring it home a bit. We need to take care of the Earth, and in doing so take care of ourselves. The Eart will take care of itself, but at some point, soon I believe, we wont be able to take care of ourselves on this earth, we will die off, take alot of other species with us, and the Earth will heal, until one day, about 4.5 billion years from now, our sun envelopes this planet. Anyone think will still be around for that?
As for Banglideshis, hell, welcome! They can even stay in my house and cuddle up at night with Lucky Irishman, Koastal, and my mother in law.
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chavez wrote: I've got other things which are more important than shouting at mountains to move!
Nobody on this board or whom I've ever met can do nor will do anything in their lifetime to make a difference on this issue other than to get a warm and fuzzy feeling inside for donating their beer-pull-tabs proceeds to greenpeace.
My 2 cents!
Ok Chavez,chavez wrote:
It's a reverse, upside down, conspiracy theory that doesn't hold water!
This issue is like a bunch of minnows who are bitching about the water being too hot, when in fact they are inside the belly of a dead whale.
Moral to the story: It doesn't matter, we're all goin' down!
This is all a feel-good thing for the minnows!
Why spend so much time researching this Zionist world domination theory? What are you actually going to do about this to change anything? If it's as big and controlling as you seem to believe, isn't all your research and screaming about this, like shouting at a mountain to move it? Why waist your time worrying about it?
Just wondering.
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- I've got internet at work
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- I Love 440 More Than Real Life
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Chavey,
Would you be more prone to agree with me if I said "Them" instead of "We"? My use of the word WE wasn't conscious, and by saying WE, I just meant humanity in generaly.
And I agree with your point about not tossing butts on the ground, mean while the big guys are polluting everything, everywhere. But does that mean it's ok for us to throw our insignificant amount of litter on the ground?
And I think it's not inappropriate to say WE. I really don't believe in taking an "us againts them" stance. Sorry if this sounds trite, but we would all benifit if more people stop thinking like that and started realizing that we are all the same species and we have to share this planet.
Would you be more prone to agree with me if I said "Them" instead of "We"? My use of the word WE wasn't conscious, and by saying WE, I just meant humanity in generaly.
And I agree with your point about not tossing butts on the ground, mean while the big guys are polluting everything, everywhere. But does that mean it's ok for us to throw our insignificant amount of litter on the ground?
And I think it's not inappropriate to say WE. I really don't believe in taking an "us againts them" stance. Sorry if this sounds trite, but we would all benifit if more people stop thinking like that and started realizing that we are all the same species and we have to share this planet.
I don't really know where you're comming from there. Are you saying that "they" want us to believe it's our fault we're driving ourselves to extinction?That is the typical crap that money-grubbing politicians and everybody else out there who has their hands in our pockets wants us to believe!
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At last real intelligence is being unleashed. Them egg-heads done bin unmuzzled.
Please to be viewing. Oh my goodness gosh - the penny has dropp-edd.
http://abc.net.au/science/crude/
Please to be viewing. Oh my goodness gosh - the penny has dropp-edd.
http://abc.net.au/science/crude/
Good Topic.
We could discuss it in depth and make the situation overly complicated, however the simple facts is we, yes all of us, are destroying our planet. Just because certain things are beyond our control doesn't change this fact, think of you lifestyle and the impact of things you consume.
Politics is responsible as well, since polititians love to listen the economists who believe we can have infinite growth in a world of limited resources. We have become ruled by economics and have chosen to ignore basic facts.
Consider this carefully, before the industrial revolution and the discovery of oil, the earths population was around 1 billion, since that time the earths population has balooned to 6 billion, everything essential to supporting such a large population relies on cheap and abundant energy - especially modern farming and so forth. We are entering the stage of "overshoot" where our environment can not sustain our population and lifestyles in the long term.
Since we all live on the same planet, it is our collective responsibilities to consider the future and try to avoid the fast approaching cliff that we are heading for, somehow I don't think we'll stop in time to avoid major disaster.
We could discuss it in depth and make the situation overly complicated, however the simple facts is we, yes all of us, are destroying our planet. Just because certain things are beyond our control doesn't change this fact, think of you lifestyle and the impact of things you consume.
Politics is responsible as well, since polititians love to listen the economists who believe we can have infinite growth in a world of limited resources. We have become ruled by economics and have chosen to ignore basic facts.
Consider this carefully, before the industrial revolution and the discovery of oil, the earths population was around 1 billion, since that time the earths population has balooned to 6 billion, everything essential to supporting such a large population relies on cheap and abundant energy - especially modern farming and so forth. We are entering the stage of "overshoot" where our environment can not sustain our population and lifestyles in the long term.
Since we all live on the same planet, it is our collective responsibilities to consider the future and try to avoid the fast approaching cliff that we are heading for, somehow I don't think we'll stop in time to avoid major disaster.
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