Mexican marijuana farmers see profits tumble ...
Interesting articulate guy. Looks good for his age.
I've always thought all drugs should be legalised.
In say 30 years time, when all drugs are under state and private industry control, people will think it's crazy that they were illegal.
Look at prohibition. To our modern eyes it was a ridiculous law and brought about many of the crime families they have to this day in the USA.
(I don't smoke by the way. Makes me sick! Don't do any drugs apart from booze.)
I've always thought all drugs should be legalised.
In say 30 years time, when all drugs are under state and private industry control, people will think it's crazy that they were illegal.
Look at prohibition. To our modern eyes it was a ridiculous law and brought about many of the crime families they have to this day in the USA.
(I don't smoke by the way. Makes me sick! Don't do any drugs apart from booze.)
pew, pew, pew, pew!
- Petrol Head
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I think the case for legalization of class As will be hard to make for some time to come.
But definitely when it comes to naturally occurring narcotics such as cannabis and mushrooms, which score so low on the harm / addiction chart, people will be scratching their heads over their prohibition, very soon. Actually, if all drugs were to be legalized, it would be rational to peg tax rates to an index derived by harm multiplied by addictive potential.
Looking back though, IMHO the legalization of cannabis on a global scale will be attributed to the superb organization and intelligent strategic maneuvering of the pro-weed lobby. On this point, I read an article about the shroom lobby recently, which reminded me of some interesting morals to the anti-prohibition story, relative to cannabis. If you want to get something legalized, it seems you have to:
- Be organized at an almost military level.
- Be incredibly adept at thinking laterally and not spend large amounts of time and effort defending pro-prohibition accusations head on.
- Gain legitimacy on a wide scale; get experts on your side and develop a substantial database of reputable expert testimony. Stand on this testimony. Leverage it from a 'health and well being' angle. Recreational enjoyment is not an argument that is respected by legislators.
- Develop a clear, consistent branding communication message. Repeat this and do not deviate from message.
- Remove the hardline anti-prohibition fringe from policy negotiations with legislators. Talk hard financial benefits and jobs.
- Target the harm/addiction properties of every other narcotic substance (legal or not) that isn't yours.
- Despite the adversarial history, big corporations are not necessarily the enemy in the 21st century. Be flexible.
The shroom lobby is miles from achieving most of these. They have not even reached the status of organized, cohesive group. Yet, they should be the next cab off the legalization rank. It speaks volumes about the (un)likelihood of legalization of other drugs, especially class A's like coke and heroin. Therefore I don't buy the "flood gate" argument that's developing - that because of cannabis legalization and recognition of the failure of the war on drugs, ALL drugs will be legalized soon.
But definitely when it comes to naturally occurring narcotics such as cannabis and mushrooms, which score so low on the harm / addiction chart, people will be scratching their heads over their prohibition, very soon. Actually, if all drugs were to be legalized, it would be rational to peg tax rates to an index derived by harm multiplied by addictive potential.
Looking back though, IMHO the legalization of cannabis on a global scale will be attributed to the superb organization and intelligent strategic maneuvering of the pro-weed lobby. On this point, I read an article about the shroom lobby recently, which reminded me of some interesting morals to the anti-prohibition story, relative to cannabis. If you want to get something legalized, it seems you have to:
- Be organized at an almost military level.
- Be incredibly adept at thinking laterally and not spend large amounts of time and effort defending pro-prohibition accusations head on.
- Gain legitimacy on a wide scale; get experts on your side and develop a substantial database of reputable expert testimony. Stand on this testimony. Leverage it from a 'health and well being' angle. Recreational enjoyment is not an argument that is respected by legislators.
- Develop a clear, consistent branding communication message. Repeat this and do not deviate from message.
- Remove the hardline anti-prohibition fringe from policy negotiations with legislators. Talk hard financial benefits and jobs.
- Target the harm/addiction properties of every other narcotic substance (legal or not) that isn't yours.
- Despite the adversarial history, big corporations are not necessarily the enemy in the 21st century. Be flexible.
The shroom lobby is miles from achieving most of these. They have not even reached the status of organized, cohesive group. Yet, they should be the next cab off the legalization rank. It speaks volumes about the (un)likelihood of legalization of other drugs, especially class A's like coke and heroin. Therefore I don't buy the "flood gate" argument that's developing - that because of cannabis legalization and recognition of the failure of the war on drugs, ALL drugs will be legalized soon.
Haha - my money’s on Playboy
- Felgerkarb
- Sir Felgerkarb, Kt Pb
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Anything available to Stone Age people should be completely legal and unregulated. If it requires a chemistry set, regulate it, but legalize it.
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Why are the gods such vicious cunts?
Where is the god of tits and wine?
Why are the gods such vicious cunts?
Where is the god of tits and wine?
- spitthedog
- Is the World Outside still there ?
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Cambodia should become the Colorado of the East and just legalize pot.
What niche/competitive advantage does Cambodia have? - ZERO. They should get a head start and before you know it the hippie travellers will be flocking in. Sales of hammocks and Cheetos will also rise in The Kingdom.
What niche/competitive advantage does Cambodia have? - ZERO. They should get a head start and before you know it the hippie travellers will be flocking in. Sales of hammocks and Cheetos will also rise in The Kingdom.
"I don't care what the people are thinking, i ain't drunk i'm just drinking"
Haha, the bikers now buy off him and sell out of state. A great story.Petrol Head wrote: http://www.smh.com.au/world/how-john-lo ... lzegp.html
I like this bit especially:
"Those meetings were interesting. Never held in a boardroom - that would have intimidated them," Mr Lord said....
"Not my circus, not my monkeys" - KiR
- Petrol Head
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^ it's a movie that I'd watch.
The small town Kiwi dairy farmer, the gangsters and the gangsta rapper with his own signature weed line
The small town Kiwi dairy farmer, the gangsters and the gangsta rapper with his own signature weed line
Haha - my money’s on Playboy
- puss in boots
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- Miguelito
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Slightly off topic, but re: the discussions of living in Latin/South America. It should really be broken into three categories: Mexico, Central America, and South America. The safety factor varies, but it's all pretty manageable if you follow the rule of "don't be an idiot." I'll share some of my impressions of the countries mentioned thus far.
Mexico is a great country and despite certain things can be safe enough. The northern regions are higher gang activity and you wouldn't want to move to Juarez for example (and even a lot of the Foreign Service Officers there decide to live in El Paso and commute). Mexico City is one of the world's largest metropolitan areas, so with that you will get the good and the bad. When people say they like New York City because it has a little of everything, I say that I like Mexico City (D.F.) because it has a lot of everything. Delicious street food, taco stands, markets, etc, and then very high end neighborhoods with the restaurants and night clubs to boot, and everything in between. But it is a city where you should be aware of what's going on around you. The drug crime is almost entirely kept out of the capital. Another option could be Pueblo, slightly to the east / southeast of D.F., which is a much smaller city with a great feel and good amenities. For a more laid back lifestyle, there's Baja (safe and beach lifestyle), or the Yucatan peninsula (Tulum or Cozumel would be great). The southern city of Oaxaca would be once to consider, it's the culinary capital and safe. A good rule of thumb (in any country) is don't deal (or deal with) drugs and you'll greatly minimize your risks.
The Central American countries are a lot rougher right now, and they really vary from many countries in the respect that you'll mostly want to avoid the capital cities. Guatemala City is a dump, but nearby Antigua is the place for expats to live. The coasts of Belize (which advertises very heavily in the U.S. to try and get retirees to purchase property and move down) and Honduras are relatively safe and offer excellent and cheap diving (even by SEA standards). Costa Rica has been the safest and most stable Latin country; they don't have a military and the government has been in place for around 90 years. Lots of resort towns of course, the largest tourism infrastructure, and most crime you'll worry about is nonviolent petty thefts (you cannot leave anything unattended to on the beach, of course) or car break-ins. But San José is again a shithole, and U.S. government officials are not even permitted to stay in hotels in downtown San José.
Panama is certainly an intriguing country, and with the canal expanding it is only growing in importance. Panama City has changed a lot since the U.S. left, with the former green zone now indistinguishable from the rest of the city. There are the typical extremes of very affluent neighborhoods and the very poor. There are many expats there (during the Cold War it was said to be second to only D.C. with the number of spooks in residence), and it feels relatively safe even downtown. As mentioned, Copa is headquartered there which is a good airline (Star Alliance member) and the most flights in the region. Despite being on the water, there aren't really any good beaches near the city, but there are plenty of other towns to escape to for that.
Colombia has changed a lot, and even Medina is safe enough now. You still won't be trouncing around the jungle as there are still "hot" areas, but Bogotá is a vibrant capital city tucked up in the hills. It may be cold for some folks (pretty much the same weather forecast every day of the year as well), and seeing armed guards all around the city makes some feel uncomfortable, but I tend to feel more safe when I see those guards. Cartagena is a developed coastal city with lots going on (on the weekends), and many direct flights to the U.S. I'll give an extra special shout out to Peru for being the most delicious country you'll find. Lima is bustling, safe, and often overlooked for Peru's version of Siem Reap, Cusco. Personally, I like the city of Arequipa (the White City), or the coastal town of Trujillo, although would prefer to base myself out of Lima. The cost of living is also extremely low; you can go to some of the world's best restaurants for less than at a chain steak restaurant in the U.S., or still eat delicious food for very moderate prices. However, not nearly as low as Cambodia.
Mexico is a great country and despite certain things can be safe enough. The northern regions are higher gang activity and you wouldn't want to move to Juarez for example (and even a lot of the Foreign Service Officers there decide to live in El Paso and commute). Mexico City is one of the world's largest metropolitan areas, so with that you will get the good and the bad. When people say they like New York City because it has a little of everything, I say that I like Mexico City (D.F.) because it has a lot of everything. Delicious street food, taco stands, markets, etc, and then very high end neighborhoods with the restaurants and night clubs to boot, and everything in between. But it is a city where you should be aware of what's going on around you. The drug crime is almost entirely kept out of the capital. Another option could be Pueblo, slightly to the east / southeast of D.F., which is a much smaller city with a great feel and good amenities. For a more laid back lifestyle, there's Baja (safe and beach lifestyle), or the Yucatan peninsula (Tulum or Cozumel would be great). The southern city of Oaxaca would be once to consider, it's the culinary capital and safe. A good rule of thumb (in any country) is don't deal (or deal with) drugs and you'll greatly minimize your risks.
The Central American countries are a lot rougher right now, and they really vary from many countries in the respect that you'll mostly want to avoid the capital cities. Guatemala City is a dump, but nearby Antigua is the place for expats to live. The coasts of Belize (which advertises very heavily in the U.S. to try and get retirees to purchase property and move down) and Honduras are relatively safe and offer excellent and cheap diving (even by SEA standards). Costa Rica has been the safest and most stable Latin country; they don't have a military and the government has been in place for around 90 years. Lots of resort towns of course, the largest tourism infrastructure, and most crime you'll worry about is nonviolent petty thefts (you cannot leave anything unattended to on the beach, of course) or car break-ins. But San José is again a shithole, and U.S. government officials are not even permitted to stay in hotels in downtown San José.
Panama is certainly an intriguing country, and with the canal expanding it is only growing in importance. Panama City has changed a lot since the U.S. left, with the former green zone now indistinguishable from the rest of the city. There are the typical extremes of very affluent neighborhoods and the very poor. There are many expats there (during the Cold War it was said to be second to only D.C. with the number of spooks in residence), and it feels relatively safe even downtown. As mentioned, Copa is headquartered there which is a good airline (Star Alliance member) and the most flights in the region. Despite being on the water, there aren't really any good beaches near the city, but there are plenty of other towns to escape to for that.
Colombia has changed a lot, and even Medina is safe enough now. You still won't be trouncing around the jungle as there are still "hot" areas, but Bogotá is a vibrant capital city tucked up in the hills. It may be cold for some folks (pretty much the same weather forecast every day of the year as well), and seeing armed guards all around the city makes some feel uncomfortable, but I tend to feel more safe when I see those guards. Cartagena is a developed coastal city with lots going on (on the weekends), and many direct flights to the U.S. I'll give an extra special shout out to Peru for being the most delicious country you'll find. Lima is bustling, safe, and often overlooked for Peru's version of Siem Reap, Cusco. Personally, I like the city of Arequipa (the White City), or the coastal town of Trujillo, although would prefer to base myself out of Lima. The cost of living is also extremely low; you can go to some of the world's best restaurants for less than at a chain steak restaurant in the U.S., or still eat delicious food for very moderate prices. However, not nearly as low as Cambodia.
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- Stabby McStaberson
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Not sure how crystal meth and crack can possibly get effectively regulated after legalization. The idea that taxing the bejesus out of a drug to control its use only works if the legally produced end-product takes all the ill-gotten profit away from the illegal producers. Without that, you have only succeeded in broadening the drug use to the slightly more affluent who were previously too scared of the punitive legal consequences to use. It's not like a down-and-out crackhead will consider buying the legal and heavily taxed $100 per rock crack sold at Walgreens versus the illegal $10 per rock crack he gets on the streetcorner now in order to avoid the legal hassle.Felgerkarb wrote: If it requires a chemistry set, regulate it, but legalize it.
..and if you disagree with me, you are one billion times WORSE than HITLER!!!
- Felgerkarb
- Sir Felgerkarb, Kt Pb
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i never said tax it.
Anyway, meth has no value, it's just poison. Sorry tweakers, I hate meth as it just a destroyer.
Anyway, meth has no value, it's just poison. Sorry tweakers, I hate meth as it just a destroyer.
====================
Why are the gods such vicious cunts?
Where is the god of tits and wine?
Why are the gods such vicious cunts?
Where is the god of tits and wine?
- Petrol Head
- Grand Poobah
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Thats what was happening for a while there too. It was getting a rep for its' liberal attitudes towards ganja, that whilst not of Hawaiian quality, was cheap and potent enough to become overwhelming in pizza form.spitthedog wrote:Cambodia should become the Colorado of the East and just legalize pot.
What niche/competitive advantage does Cambodia have? - ZERO. They should get a head start and before you know it the hippie travellers will be flocking in. Sales of hammocks and Cheetos will also rise in The Kingdom.
But then during the last few years, just as the world is moving towards legalization, they decide to start busting all these farmers and dealers who seemed to focus on weed exclusively, rather than meth. WTF!?
Cambodia has the potential to make some Grand Cru pot with its blessed climate and terroir - can you imagine the French government ordering a vine pull in Bordeaux in 1933 to appease the last vestiges of the temperance movement?
Haha - my money’s on Playboy
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- Stabby McStaberson
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You did say "regulate, but legalize" the drugs that require chemistry sets to manufacture. Not sure what you meant if not to tax.Felgerkarb wrote:i never said tax it.
Anyway, meth has no value, it's just poison. Sorry tweakers, I hate meth as it just a destroyer.
..and if you disagree with me, you are one billion times WORSE than HITLER!!!
- Felgerkarb
- Sir Felgerkarb, Kt Pb
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Quality control, sorry wasn't clear. But I have a prejudice against meth, so people who make it should be executed...Saudi style.Pol Pothead wrote:You did say "regulate, but legalize" the drugs that require chemistry sets to manufacture. Not sure what you meant if not to tax.Felgerkarb wrote:i never said tax it.
Anyway, meth has no value, it's just poison. Sorry tweakers, I hate meth as it just a destroyer.
====================
Why are the gods such vicious cunts?
Where is the god of tits and wine?
Why are the gods such vicious cunts?
Where is the god of tits and wine?
That's the first angle. Undercut the cartels' / gangs' / dealers' supply price and ruin their income stream. Remove their violence and shadows cast from the picture.Pol Pothead wrote:...
The idea that taxing the bejesus out of a drug to control its use only works if the legally produced end-product takes all the ill-gotten profit away from the illegal producers. Without that, you have only succeeded in broadening the drug use to the slightly more affluent who were previously too scared of the punitive legal consequences to use. It's not like a down-and-out crackhead will consider buying the legal and heavily taxed $100 per rock crack sold at Walgreens versus the illegal $10 per rock crack he gets on the streetcorner now in order to avoid the legal hassle.
It could very well be a better bet for 'society' if the government not only legalises drugs, but gives them away for free.
Compare the price, both social and $, of a community preyed upon by thieving junkies who need $N daily and their supply chain of gangbangers who will do anything to control and maintain their market share.
What is the cost of having so many victims of crime, so much property damage, right down to the associated insurance weighting? What do the endless prison housing and all associated industries cost? What's the policing / border controls cost?
Give that shit away and remove that burden from your society. Nobody will run kilos of crap across your borders if you're giving 100% good gear away for free. No gangs will take over your neighbourhoods and mess up ongoing generations of young kids to control a huge financial empire if there are no buyers.
Do it like the national health drug prescription system does. Walk in, sign for it, take it home - at no cost to the user.
Quality control is the second angle. Keep it reliably clean.Felgerkarb wrote:Quality control, sorry wasn't clear. But I have a prejudice against meth, so people who make it should be executed...Saudi style.Pol Pothead wrote:You did say "regulate, but legalize" the drugs that require chemistry sets to manufacture. Not sure what you meant if not to tax.Felgerkarb wrote:i never said tax it.
Anyway, meth has no value, it's just poison. Sorry tweakers, I hate meth as it just a destroyer.
Education would be the third angle. Teach kids about drugs, and do it honestly. None of this fkng 'Sammy the Sloth' rubbish. Bring mandatory drug testing into all schools and workplaces.
Fourth would be to improve legislation and tackle those under the influence in positions of responsibility in the same way that drink-driving has been handled.
Throw a fkr in jail for using / dealing / supplying and you do nothing to solve the problem.
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