Felgerkarb wrote:I find it insulting when people can't figure out how ancient people built, say, the pyramids, therefore it must be aliens. I find the same logic applied when it comes to religion, spirituality, whatever -- I'm not going to deconstruct terms until we can't even discuss the issue.
Just because science can't measure it, doesn't make it unreal and therefore quaint. That's the fascist side of the enlightenment.
Science is the grammar of the poetry of the universe.
I'll stick to reading the poem and leave the parsing to others.
How important is religion to your life?
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Some thought provoking posts, inter-spaced with a few Gin N Tonics
Nothing but an opinionated tourist. The Pope spends more time in countries than I do ! It is also not my place to comment on a gentleman's dress. A real 23 minute wonder, that obviously knows little about ovens and cooking in Cambodia.
I believe in God. Im not sure who God is. I think Jesus is cool~ he's a hippy likes to smoke dope, walks on water, and turns it into Wine.
Religion is crazy. All these wars going on(39 worldwide) are all based on that. Madness. The Devil has control. A few War's have nothing to to do with God. Drug Wars.
But seriously, If you are good man in your life, you go to Heaven. Be good my brothers.
Religion is crazy. All these wars going on(39 worldwide) are all based on that. Madness. The Devil has control. A few War's have nothing to to do with God. Drug Wars.
But seriously, If you are good man in your life, you go to Heaven. Be good my brothers.
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I said this more or less to a friend one time, maybe 10 years ago. Not as eloquent. He was a bit shocked. Asked me in different words whether I thought we were just simply worm food. Yes. A few years later my professional accountant friend graduated from Divinity School with an MA from a prestigious school (in Canada) and is now a priest. I guess I have that effect on people and so do not state as you have stated this view of life as I believe it.Jacked Camry wrote:I'm an Atheist, not an Agnostic. I'm not at all convinced that there is a "purpose" in life. It just is and we're the fortunate beneficiaries of evolution on this planet that has gotten to the point where we can experience the universe that has given birth to us. I'm astounded, amazed, mystified and exhilarated by life and the universe and follow our advances in scientific knowledge with rapt attention as we're in a period of incredible knowledge growth. How quickly and how well we manage to harness the science we're learning will determine whether we have a future.Marvin wrote:When someone says they're an atheist, does that mean they think nothing higher than themselves exists in the world or the universe? And the only purpose of life is to be born, eat, shit, breed, consume and then die? If so, you are only seeing the very tip of the iceberg IMHO.
I am comfortable with being food for worms, and I can see a somewhat spiritual or poetic aspect to the cycle of life and death, to how we're born from the elements created in the furnaces of exploding stars and return back to the earth to be recycled endlessly until our eventual end disposition as space dust within the Big Crunch or whatever ultimate future the universe has. We gain an infinitesimal glimpse of the wonders of this universe and the possibilities within it and outside in our lives, and there is so much of it to explore during our lifetimes we can only be bored if we choose to be.
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I sit on my balcony every day and watch life all around me, visible and invisible. The mama bird feeding her two young ones who hound her all around the yard, the insects visiting the new flowers on a tree that shed all its leaves over a month ago (Thailand) and are now coming back at the outer ends of the limbs, the plants sucking up water and minerals to make a home for birds and insects and for carbon dioxide, the life-giving rains, and the humans carrying on as their astoundingly complicated internal systems keep them in motion and allow them to think. It's all a marvel, of which I'm a part, neither more nor less important.
But we have the wonderful gift of consciousness and awareness that we are alive. I believe somehow we know things and add knowledge to that when we grow up, learn languages and succeed or fail in our relationship with other humans. We are an amazing link in life through the ages. That is enough.
Agnosticism has no status in my life. But I guess atheist is a handy label for people if they want to pigeon-hole me.
"We want our country to develop step by step. But that is such a long way off . . . as far away as the stars."
Jobless father in documentary Cambodia: Country of Scars.
Jobless father in documentary Cambodia: Country of Scars.
Marvin wrote:Nirvana wrote:
No one rises from the dead, reincarnation is bunk, it's impossible to part a sea, Heaven and Hell do not exist, spells are nothing more than the power of suggestion, and there's no such thing as magic.
There's a lot in Buddhism I agree with philosophically, but all the spiritual and supernatural stuff is just nonsense.
I should clarify there are cases of people being declared clinically dead only to awaken afterwards. So in that sense people do rise from the dead. I just mean that if a man dies on the cross, he isn't coming back.
Of course there's something greater than myself. I just don't believe it's likely to be a god.No one rises from the dead....? I have seen people that are the living dead. They got there by thinking thoughts along the same lines as you. They only thing that bought them back from the dead was surrendering that belief and realising there is something much more powerful...other then themselves and their own ego.
It's just awfully convenient how religion and spirituality just happen offer answers and comfort for things human aren't built to handle or comprehend (or haven't yet evolved to). It's almost as if someone came up with the concept of god/gods to personify everything we don't understand or that's out of our control. I mean damn, we've figured out that vampires are actually tuberculosis victims, we've explained away near-death experiences with science by recreating the experiences, we know that sleep paralysis can probably explain the Incubus/Succubus/alien abduction anal probes and their counterparts across the world (I believe in Japan they see a scary old lady) so why would this be any different? What makes this so special? People just don't want to let go?
I would love for there to be a god/gods and I'm open to anything that would support such an existence. But I can't lie to myself about it just to feel better.
People I know who seem to glide through life have had it easy and lack wisdom. The wise people I know have lived rough lives, but each has very much only lived one.Reincarnation is not bunk at all... Spoken like a first timer in my opinion. Have you never met anyone that seems to have most of the answers and life is just a seamless ride? I have met many people like this and they just beam wisdom and confidence without even trying. These people have been around the block a few times already - not just in this life but previous ones too.
This would be wonderful and I would revere the sea gods all the way! But there are no seas gods. That's just something I'd say if I didn't understand climate, wind, the moon, etc. I want there to be sea gods though.No one can part the sea...? Correct no human can part the sea ( except maybe the Dutch). However the gods of the Sea can... if you ask nicely and look and listen for the signs of them resting.
Of course there's a place people remain trapped after death - in our heads. Trapped or not trapped, it's easy for the deceased to be "present" even if not physically here. But as for ghosts and the supernatural, there are no haunted places. Just haunted people.Heaven and hell don't exist... Have you ever died? I am positive there is a place in between life and death where some people passing on can stay or be trapped, unable to go on. I know because I have had several experiences with ghosts or the supernatural or what ever you want to call it. Some totally non threatening and some just downright evil. So if there is no heaven and hell what are these trapped spirits then? Say what you like about "there is no such thing as ghosts" etc..I don't care, I have seen it, felt it and been terrified by it. And I don't scare easily: I've spent most of my life outdoors and on the sea, alone in nature...not just in an urban setting behind a computer, drinking coffee and beer, talking shit to fair weather friends. To think we just die and become worm food is thinking like the world is still flat IMHO.
I believe you believe you've seen ghosts. I used to believe I did too (that or I told myself as much). And there's a chance they do exist; there's always a chance. But probably not. With all these m-f'ers running around with cameras and junk equipment to capture ghosts and no one has done it yet?
I believe it's the mentality that something must happen after we die that's thinking like the world is flat. It's what we do while we're alive, the lives we touch and mark we make that matters.
Throughout history white people have dismissed as superstitious claims by native people that went on to be explained by western science. So it's nothing like that, at least not from my end. Us white people can hardly point fingers when it comes to such beliefs anyway. Whether it's an Aborigine casting a spell from afar or a white guy saying God sent a hurricane to wipe out the gay adjacent in New Orleans, though, one had nothing to do with the other (especially the latter). Unlikely.Spells are nothing more than power of suggestion...Tell that to the Aborigines and Torres Strait Islanders and Africans. Where spells can be cast from afar with deadly outcomes. Let me guess: what would those natives know...it's not white man science.
There's a chance the ability to cast spells exists and that those groups are capable. I would love to see it. I would love to see something bigger and better and more powerful.
I'm referring to magic in the supernatural sense.No such thing as magic...Maybe not in your life. Plenty has happened in mine; no other word could describe it...
And for the record I have never gone to church or any other place of worship, so I am definitely not in the god squad. Just not the first time around for me...
I'm open for there being god(s) and supernatural stuff. Would love to finally not be let down. I'm open to evidence and proof. But for example if you're telling me you can spontaneously combust, I need to see it. And you can't then proceed to soak yourself in fire accelerant and then light a match. So far that's all its been though.
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I can understand how the ancients built the pyramids etc., as well as what the underlying reasons for it were. In my opinion, they lacked a larger framework and technical understanding to comprehend the world around them hence they tried to jury rig a connection to it, figuring that the gods must surely be above the earth so they needed to connect to them via earthbound monuments. That's in the design of pretty much every single one I've ever seen. Admirable and indicative of the curiousity, cleverness and thirst for knowledge humans have as an inherent part of their makeup, something that was no doubt created along with reason.Felgerkarb wrote:I find it insulting when people can't figure out how ancient people built, say, the pyramids, therefore it must be aliens. I find the same logic applied when it comes to religion, spirituality, whatever -- I'm not going to deconstruct terms until we can't even discuss the issue.
Just because science can't measure it, doesn't make it unreal and therefore quaint. That's the fascist side of the enlightenment.
Science is the grammar of the poetry of the universe.
I'll stick to reading the poem and leave the parsing to others.
Do you really think the ancients though were in actual contact with these higher level beings/gods? I find that a laughable concept, hence quaint. Once humans get to the next level, perhaps they'll find our current science similarly quaint since they'll be much further along in the understanding of the nature of things. However, no doubt they'll also recognize that it was a necessary and critical step to the development of what they have. I see religion in the same lens. The quaint part, to me, are the hilarious explanations and stories that come from the religions and the required mass suspension of reality that is needed to believe in them. And why is it Fascist to dismiss religion as bunk? There's certainly lots of evidence supporting that point of view, more than there is against it as far as I can see. While I see it as complete BS in terms of an explanation of our origin and guide for life, I recognize its beauty in its monuments, songs, art and culture.
I like your line about Science being the grammar - I guess that makes me a teacher of da Engrish after all. The ultimate fate of those who stay in Cambodia too long perhaps. I can appreciate the poetry too, I just draw the line at giving any credence to it as a news story or as a guidebook for living my life.
At what point do the people who actually invent stuff, cure diseases, provide answers, and do their fuckin' best to better understand the universe and our place in it, just tell the fuckin' fruit loops to shut the fuck up?
Would the crazies please go find an island, interbreed, and let evolution run its course to wipe the whole lot of you out - you're all a boat anchor slowing the ship of intellectual prosperity down. Fuck off and let the clever kids REALLY save the world and provide some insight You stupid, fucking fairy tale believing fucking neanderthals.
Sorry, enough is enough! If you think the world is 6000 years old, your great grand mother appeared at your window, you're going to walk the earth again after you die, there's some supernatural magician sitting in the fucking sky happy five year old children get their eye balls eaten by worms that can't survive unless they're eating five year old eye balls.... just fuck off and let the rest of us try and work it out. You're in the way, evolution fucked up and you should all have gone the way of other specie lines that have only pieces of rock to remember them by.
Lunatics, the lot of you, and a huge weight hindering the progress of man.
Would the crazies please go find an island, interbreed, and let evolution run its course to wipe the whole lot of you out - you're all a boat anchor slowing the ship of intellectual prosperity down. Fuck off and let the clever kids REALLY save the world and provide some insight You stupid, fucking fairy tale believing fucking neanderthals.
Sorry, enough is enough! If you think the world is 6000 years old, your great grand mother appeared at your window, you're going to walk the earth again after you die, there's some supernatural magician sitting in the fucking sky happy five year old children get their eye balls eaten by worms that can't survive unless they're eating five year old eye balls.... just fuck off and let the rest of us try and work it out. You're in the way, evolution fucked up and you should all have gone the way of other specie lines that have only pieces of rock to remember them by.
Lunatics, the lot of you, and a huge weight hindering the progress of man.
Last edited by Londo on Tue Jan 12, 2016 6:15 am, edited 2 times in total.
"That was probably Londo...He is always shitty." - Marvin
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If some folk want to think aliens built stuff, then why not let them?
It is their belief, their strength, their guiding force. Who am I to take that away from them and if I do I should be responsible for replacing it and thus supporting them ?
I, personally am not into the alien thing, ish but Hey! each to their own.
What is important is that you never take away that which supports someone, when their times are hard.
We should also remember that 'Science' is 'Science' and not 'Theories'
Science is a proven thing, theories are in the main academic popular opinion, not based on hard evidenced fact and so theories actually come under the label 'Magic' or at least guess work about magic.
They are just one, or more folk convincing others that their 'Theory' or idea about what is happening under the label is correct. Time and again we see them disproved.
Let those folk have their belief, even if it is aliens, they do no harm and that belief can do a great deal of good. we should try to never decry an others belief.
It is nice to remember that we might have our beliefs but also allow others theirs, who knows which is ultimately right, if any
No offence to anyone or their belief but come on lets not persecute, ridicule or mock others, just because they don't share our image of what is under the 'Magic' label. Just have a nice chat about it, over a cup of tea
Blessed Be
It is their belief, their strength, their guiding force. Who am I to take that away from them and if I do I should be responsible for replacing it and thus supporting them ?
I, personally am not into the alien thing, ish but Hey! each to their own.
What is important is that you never take away that which supports someone, when their times are hard.
We should also remember that 'Science' is 'Science' and not 'Theories'
Science is a proven thing, theories are in the main academic popular opinion, not based on hard evidenced fact and so theories actually come under the label 'Magic' or at least guess work about magic.
They are just one, or more folk convincing others that their 'Theory' or idea about what is happening under the label is correct. Time and again we see them disproved.
Let those folk have their belief, even if it is aliens, they do no harm and that belief can do a great deal of good. we should try to never decry an others belief.
It is nice to remember that we might have our beliefs but also allow others theirs, who knows which is ultimately right, if any
No offence to anyone or their belief but come on lets not persecute, ridicule or mock others, just because they don't share our image of what is under the 'Magic' label. Just have a nice chat about it, over a cup of tea
Blessed Be
Nothing but an opinionated tourist. The Pope spends more time in countries than I do ! It is also not my place to comment on a gentleman's dress. A real 23 minute wonder, that obviously knows little about ovens and cooking in Cambodia.
Fuck em. they're idiots!!
"That was probably Londo...He is always shitty." - Marvin
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Who?
Nothing but an opinionated tourist. The Pope spends more time in countries than I do ! It is also not my place to comment on a gentleman's dress. A real 23 minute wonder, that obviously knows little about ovens and cooking in Cambodia.
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Lets put OWN OPINION into Room Magic
Nothing but an opinionated tourist. The Pope spends more time in countries than I do ! It is also not my place to comment on a gentleman's dress. A real 23 minute wonder, that obviously knows little about ovens and cooking in Cambodia.
Ermmm, actually, no.EdinWigan wrote:
We should also remember that 'Science' is 'Science' and not 'Theories'
Science is a proven thing, theories are in the main academic popular opinion, not based on hard evidenced fact and so theories actually come under the label 'Magic' or at least guess work about magic.
They are just one, or more folk convincing others that their 'Theory' or idea about what is happening under the label is correct. Time and again we see them disproved.
Science is theories.
Only when those theories are proven to be wrong do they stop being theories and offer contribution to the catalog of actual facts.
If the theories are not proven wrong, they remain as theories, even though they may be perceived as scientific facts as they have survived rigorous assault to date. Someday, though, some guy may well come along and prove those 'perceived as scientific facts' to be wrong in some way, and in doing so will show that some detail of the whole is actual fact.
Science is not a proven thing until/unless it is a theory proven wrong.
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