Sexual orientation - chosen, learned, or predetermined

[Alexandra]

Yet, despite the fact that we KNOW that many of these same victims will become paedos

Where can I read that being abused changes people's sexual orientation? Do rape victims turn into rapists by the same logic? A source would be nice.

Maybe Christians can finally convert homosexuals by having the opposite gender rape them. Only if they dress like they deserve it, of course. Rapists are far better than homosexuals.

Bless

[offshoresports]

Yet, despite the fact that we KNOW that many of these same victims will become paedos

Where can I read that being abused changes people's sexual orientation? Do rape victims turn into rapists by the same logic? A source would be nice.

Maybe Christians can finally convert homosexuals by having women rape them. Only if they dress like they deserve it, of course. Rapists are far better than homosexuals.

Bless

He never said it changed one's sexual orientation.

[Alexandra]

Paedophilia is a sexual orientation. You can look in the dictionary if you like.

If paedophiles turn people into paedophiles then that means it changes one's sexual orientation.

But fine, let's call it a mental illness instead, I don't protest. Then that must mean that mental illness is transmittable via physical action, what more mental illness can you think of that is? If a schizophrenia patient touches me do I become schizophrenic? How about coughing?

Bless

[Stagger Lee]

Paedophilia is a sexual orientation. You can look in the dictionary if you like.

If paedophiles turn people into paedophiles then that means it changes one's sexual orientation.

But fine, let's call it a mental illness instead, I don't protest. Then that must mean that mental illness is transmittable via physical action, what more mental illness can you think of that is? If a schizophrenia patient touches me do I become schizophrenic? How about coughing?

Bless

Paedophilia is a “sexual orientation” like being straight or gay, according to a criminal psychologist.

The idea that sexual attraction to children is an “orientation” is highly controversial as it suggests that offenders cannot change.

However the psychologist stressed in a later edit that they had not mean to imply paedophiles could not be treated – to an extent.

“Treatment, to me, isn’t about modifying the orientation per se, but getting the individual to find more appropriate behaviours to engage in,” they wrote.

source: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/paedo ... 65956.html

[offshoresports]

Paedophilia is a sexual orientation. You can look in the dictionary if you like.

If paedophiles turn people into paedophiles then that means it changes one's sexual orientation.

But fine, let's call it a mental illness instead, I don't protest. Then that must mean that mental illness is transmittable via physical action, what more mental illness can you think of that is? If a schizophrenia patient touches me do I become schizophrenic? How about coughing?

Bless

I guess there's some debate as to if it's a sexual orientation or not. I would agree it's a mental illness and some mental illnesses are brought on due to environmental issues like abuse, no?

[Alexandra]

A paedophile is somebody that is sexually attracted to children. It does not mean per se that they abuse children or that they have plans to. Likewise, many people fantasize about murdering others without ever doing it. I believe that difference to be what separates the mentally ill from the rest of us. If you rape children you are obviously mentally ill, but if you are "only" attracted to and fantasize about them? To back that up, you can see the same difference in treatment. You can rehabilitate people to not rape people, children and others, but you can never "cure" them from sexual attraction, so logically there is no way it would work the other way. It's a double edged sword.

Mental illness doesn't emerge from the environment, they are very often chemical imbalances that can be medicated against (hence psychotherapy is a thing). Disorders emerge from environment, but disorders are not necessarily illness although they share many of the same traits yet are often treated differently. Therapy sessions versus chemistry, but not always exclusive.

If paedophiles create paedophiles then surely that must mean that the sexual orientation part is transmittable. If abuse creates abuse then that must mean that we would see the same trend in other forms of rape, do we? I don't know, it's not often people talk about the risk of victims committing the crimes they have been subject to, but apparently when it comes to paedophilia it's something that "everybody knows" is how it is. Does it work the same with other forms of crime? Are robbery victims in the risk zone of robbing others?

Is it a disorder or an illness that causes people to hurt others, I guess would be the most accurate question to ask.

I have a hard time believing that rape victims become rapists, and it wouldn't be the first time something that "everybody knows" turned out to be false. The definition and controversy about what paedophiles are is a bit unnecessary, after all we're on the same page about how we feel about them. I have zero intention to defend them, but I find it extremely wrong to assume that crime victims are at higher risk of committing the crimes they were victims of. Actually, I find that assumption to be directly disrespectful to the victims.

Bless

[LTO]

Where can I read that being abused changes people's sexual orientation? Do rape victims turn into rapists by the same logic? A source would be nice.

http://bjp.rcpsych.org/content/179/6/482

If paedophiles turn people into paedophiles then that means it changes one's sexual orientation.

Apparently, in the fast paced world of politically correct science, that's possible again. http://www.salon.com/2016/05/14/yes_my_ ... narrative/

But fine, let's call it a mental illness instead, I don't protest. Then that must mean that mental illness is transmittable via physical action, what more mental illness can you think of that is? If a schizophrenia patient touches me do I become schizophrenic? How about coughing?

How about PTSD?

[Alexandra]

How about PTSD?

The "D" in PTSD stands for disorder, it is not an illness.

Regarding the first link:

Among 747 males the risk of being a perpetrator was positively correlated with reported sexual abuse victim experiences. The overall rate of having been a victim was 35% for perpetrators and 11% for non-perpetrators. Of the 96 females, 43% had been victims but only one was a perpetrator. A high percentage of male subjects abused in childhood by a female relative became perpetrators. Having been a victim was a strong predictor of becoming a perpetrator, as was an index of parental loss in childhood.

It seems that only males become paedophiles if they are raped by paedophiles, but the females didn't show the same results. Do males and females respond differently to victimization, or is the percentage just higher of male paedophiles in society and it's a coincidence?

747 males but only 96 females were included in the research, that is a very big difference.

There is a widespread belief among professionals working in the field that in boys there is a causal link between involvement in sexual activities with an older person and subsequently becoming an adult perpetrator of child sexual abuse. However, there is little empirical research evidence for this belief. Hence, it is of considerable social, clinical and theoretical importance to ascertain to what extent perpetrators of sexual abuse have themselves been victims; also, if there is a link, to explore the underlying psychodynamics.

Bless

[LTO]

How about PTSD?

The "D" in PTSD stands for disorder, it is not an illness.

Bless

That is an old and overlapping distinction that is blurring more by the day.

Do males and females respond differently to victimization, or is the percentage just higher of male paedophiles in society and it's a coincidence?

Don't know. Doesn't really matter to the point. You asked "Where can I read that being abused changes people's sexual orientation?" and I provided it for you.

[Alexandra]

That is an old and overlapping distinction that is blurring more by the day.

Strange, because there are many differences that ought to make it an impossibly to unite them like that. For instance, illness can be from birth but disorders cannot. There are no babies born with PTSD.

Anyhow, I made my point. vladimir and "everybody" knows things that the research community writes they have no empirical evidence for. In the study you linked they said flat out that it's just a baseless assumption. Better end this here before people think I want to defend sickos. I was just curious. Carry on.

Don't know. Doesn't really matter to the point. You asked "Where can I read that being abused changes people's sexual orientation?" and I provided it for you.

Not really. They called it widespread beliefs without empirical evidence. Also known as assumptions.

Bless

[LTO]

That is an old and overlapping distinction that is blurring more by the day.

Strange, because there are many differences that ought to make it an impossibly to unite them like that. For instance, illness can be from birth but disorders cannot. There are no babies born with PTSD.

Bless

Just Google it. Mental Illness v Mental Disorder. Lots of stuff on the overlaps and interchangeability of the words.

You are also assuming that there is such a thing as 'sexual orientation', that people are born with a 'sexual orientation,' and that 'orientations,' whatever they are, cannot be changed. All controversial ideas. Even the PC left is moving away from the idea that 'sexual orientation' is in-born and fixed. That was 1990s science.

[LTO]

Don't know. Doesn't really matter to the point. You asked "Where can I read that being abused changes people's sexual orientation?" and I provided it for you.

Not really. They called it widespread beliefs without empirical evidence. Also known as assumptions.

Bless

That was the starting point of the study, the lack of evidence for this widespread belief. The cited study addressed this problem by providing 'empirical evidence' demonstrating that the "assumption" was correct, at least in the case of males. Victims become victimizers.

Anyhow, I made my point. vladimir and "everybody" knows things that the research community writes they have no empirical evidence for. In the study you linked they said flat out that it's just a baseless assumption.

That is simply not true. See what I just wrote. See the study I cited for you. In case you missed it:

Results Among 747 males the risk of being a perpetrator was positively correlated with reported sexual abuse victim experiences. The overall rate of having been a victim was 35% for perpetrators and 11% for non-perpetrators.

[Alexandra]

That is simply not true. See what I just wrote. See the study I cited for you. In case you missed it:

Results Among 747 males the risk of being a perpetrator was positively correlated with reported sexual abuse victim experiences. The overall rate of having been a victim was 35% for perpetrators and 11% for non-perpetrators.

I quoted this in an edit, sorry about that. If you continue reading right where you ended yours:

Of the 96 females, 43% had been victims but only one was a perpetrator.

This is interesting. Was there not enough females in the study or is it a difference between genders? Only one?

You are also assuming that there is such a thing as 'sexual orientation', that people are born with a 'sexual orientation,' and that 'orientations,' whatever they are, cannot be changed. All controversial ideas. Even the PC left is moving away from the idea that 'sexual orientation' is in-born and fixed. That was 1990s science.

It's 1990s science that sexual orientation is in-born and fixed? It's 1st century science that sexual orientation can be changed, or "cured" if you will. Come on.

Bless

[Alexandra]

LTO are you telling me that homosexuals can be converted?

Bless