Sexual orientation - chosen, learned, or predetermined
- Falcon Randwick
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Thanks for that Tool link, Jamie_Lambo.
Bloody great video, never seen it before.
Bloody great video, never seen it before.
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I think publicising findings of a genetic sequence that causes homosexuality would be an incredibly sensitive topic politically. Given scientific advances enable us tell if a baby in the womb at 12 weeks has any number of disabling conditions, if parents could tell if their child was going to be a woolly-woofter would it increase the likelihood that they would have the child terminated like some do with Down‘s Syndrome or ginger foetuses?
Although to discount nurture in the developing of sexual orientation would seem to be pushing it a bit too far. I know a fella whose old man passed away when he was very young and he grew up surrounded by women, playing with dolls and doing things generally considered feminine. Now he performs a Lady Gaga drag act in low-rent gay clubs in the south of England and has a boyfriend called Damien.
Although to discount nurture in the developing of sexual orientation would seem to be pushing it a bit too far. I know a fella whose old man passed away when he was very young and he grew up surrounded by women, playing with dolls and doing things generally considered feminine. Now he performs a Lady Gaga drag act in low-rent gay clubs in the south of England and has a boyfriend called Damien.
- Jamie_Lambo
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glad you enjoyedFalcon Randwick wrote:Thanks for that Tool link, Jamie_Lambo.
Bloody great video, never seen it before.
Mean Dtuk Mean Trey, Mean Loy Mean Srey
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Punchy McShortstacks School of Hard Knocks
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Undertow is the album that 'Prison Sex' is taken from. Well worth a listen if you like the single.Falcon Randwick wrote:Thanks for that Tool link, Jamie_Lambo.
Bloody great video, never seen it before.
IMO Undertow is a brilliant album.
- Jamie_Lambo
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yep, all their albums are masterpiecesStagger Lee wrote:Undertow is the album that 'Prison Sex' is taken from. Well worth a listen if you like the single.Falcon Randwick wrote:Thanks for that Tool link, Jamie_Lambo.
Bloody great video, never seen it before.
IMO Undertow is a brilliant album.
this is a rare (only live proshot) of them performing another track off Untertow album - "Sober"
Maynard is a nutcase!
Mean Dtuk Mean Trey, Mean Loy Mean Srey
Punchy McShortstacks School of Hard Knocks
Punchy McShortstacks School of Hard Knocks
- Falcon Randwick
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Well, this thread is really about a fucktard with kiddie porn on his computer, so let's not confuse "gayness" with paedophilia. However, I take a somewhat slightly personal umbrage at your claim, LTO, that 'bad science' supports the gay gene hypothesis as it so happens that my brother has done a substantial amount of work on this subject and he's considered a world leader in his field of epidemiology and a major contributor to the Human Genome Project.LTO wrote:I can deal with science and I share your experience. There is no conclusive scientific evidence for the 'born that way 'claim, and that some people think they 'were gay from the start' is no indication of a genetic basis. 'Born that way' is a political claim in search of science to support it, so far without success. In fact it is a particularly bad sort of science - a conclusion in search of evidence - and the best they've been able to come up so far with is suggestive studies and possible connections hinting at something they really want to believe. The purpose of the 'born that way' claim is to counter the 'it's a choice' argument (as if that is the dichotomy) and remove moral culpability from the equation. One cannot be blamed for what one has no choice in. But society moves along, and as the stigma attached to being gay (in so far as 'gay' is even a real category) slowly falls away, so too does the need to make the 'born that way' argument. It doesn't matter if there is an element of environment/choice if there is nothing wrong with being gay. And as gender studies advances and notions like gender fluidity move to the fore, constraining ideas like 'born gay,' which removes freedom and limits people by virtue of dubious genetically determined sexual categories, will become increasingly counter-productive and will (and are) be dropped. It is in fact the 'born that way' people who are behind the times, making a genetics-determines-behavior argument that would have been edgy even in EO Wilson's Sociobiology, and not completely out of place in 1940s Germany. It is a retrograde argument with echos of eugenics and scientific racism in it. The way forward is a change in attitudes in society about gender difference (which is a construct), not in locking people into predetermined 'born that way' categories. As the political need for the argument fades, so too will the science trying to prove it.
As he explained it to me once, empirical evidence appears to support the position that there is indeed a "gay gene", albeit a 'weak' correlation. He added that just because someone has that gene it does not necessarily mean that their sexual orientation will be affected by it, however, most people who identify as gay do have the gene.
https://genepi.qimr.edu.au/contents/p/s ... Q_Copy.pdf
http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2002/09/ ... 34314.html
What is odd, though, is the exceedingly strong correlation between left-handedness and homosexuality...
https://www.psychologytoday.com/article ... ality-hand
And the direction one's hair whorls...
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2 ... 071931.htm
Of course, as every Australian knows about those Pommy pooftahs, the real determinate is if you prefer Marmite to Vegemite...
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- Jacked Camry
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From my experience, I used to babysit two boys who were the kids off my boss and close friend. They were raised similarly in an average Midwestern household with two supportive parents. By the age of 2, it was obvious this kid was gay whereas his brother was not. Everyone could see it. He's in his twenties now, nice kid, gay (although not flaming) doing well. How does a child choose his serial orientation at age 2?
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What does an obviously gay two year old do?Jacked Camry wrote:From my experience, I used to babysit two boys who were the kids off my boss and close friend. They were raised similarly in an average Midwestern household with two supportive parents. By the age of 2, it was obvious this kid was gay whereas his brother was not.
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Suck on dummies in readiness.gavinmac wrote:What does an obviously gay two year old do?Jacked Camry wrote:From my experience, I used to babysit two boys who were the kids off my boss and close friend. They were raised similarly in an average Midwestern household with two supportive parents. By the age of 2, it was obvious this kid was gay whereas his brother was not.
Rated R for Ricecakes
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- Jacked Camry
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Plays with dolls, very effeminate, doesn't like sports, basically behaves similarly to a little girl. But he's not transgender, he identifies and identified as a boy. He was just different and everyone knew it. Fortunately he had tolerant parents who didn't try to change him so he grew up as a normal kid, just gay.gavinmac wrote:What does an obviously gay two year old do?Jacked Camry wrote:From my experience, I used to babysit two boys who were the kids off my boss and close friend. They were raised similarly in an average Midwestern household with two supportive parents. By the age of 2, it was obvious this kid was gay whereas his brother was not.
- Jamie_Lambo
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This??gavinmac wrote:What does an obviously gay two year old do?Jacked Camry wrote:From my experience, I used to babysit two boys who were the kids off my boss and close friend. They were raised similarly in an average Midwestern household with two supportive parents. By the age of 2, it was obvious this kid was gay whereas his brother was not.
Mean Dtuk Mean Trey, Mean Loy Mean Srey
Punchy McShortstacks School of Hard Knocks
Punchy McShortstacks School of Hard Knocks
- LTO
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I've heard this sort of anecdote many times. Three thoughts: 1) Feminine does not equal gay; 2) Has there ever been a proper study correlating 'effeminate behavior' in two year olds with gay adulthood; 3) Confirmation bias.Jacked Camry wrote:Plays with dolls, very effeminate, doesn't like sports, basically behaves similarly to a little girl. But he's not transgender, he identifies and identified as a boy. He was just different and everyone knew it. Fortunately he had tolerant parents who didn't try to change him so he grew up as a normal kid, just gay.gavinmac wrote:What does an obviously gay two year old do?Jacked Camry wrote:From my experience, I used to babysit two boys who were the kids off my boss and close friend. They were raised similarly in an average Midwestern household with two supportive parents. By the age of 2, it was obvious this kid was gay whereas his brother was not.
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