Brexit: the £ billion lie
Brexit: the £ billion lie
Where Farage publicly admits he lied to the tune of £ 350.000.000/week in his main propaganda argument. And all the naive old farts believed him. "Plenty of money for the NHS"!
Welcome to the new Britain and its clean politicians untouched by the eurocrat gravy train ! Turncoat Boris sure looks like PM material...
Scots have one more huge valid reason to secede.
The brexit camp seems totally confused now that Cameron confirmed he'd had enough.
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- MerkinMaker
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I'm guessing that both you and the interviewer don't understand how a parliamentary democracy or a referendum work. The money will now be under the control of the treasury, that much is true, but it will be up to the new chancellor to set a budget and allocate those additional funds, then it will be up to parliament to pass that budget with the "vote on account". Last time I checked Farage's UKIP didn't hold a parliamentary majority so is in absolutely no position to make the promises and guarantees demanded by the presenter and the stupid bint knew as much.
Secondly this line of argument was a strawman constantly used by the Remain campaign, by which they demanded the Leave campaign commit to a post Brexit plan knowing full well that's politically impossible. The actual name for a plan in politics is a manifesto and the Remain party can't have a manifesto because they are not a political party and this isn't a general election where they will be handed a mandate to implement a manifesto (even if they did have one). In my opinion it's these types of parlor tricks and sleight of hand moves that lost this election for the Remain campaign, they treated the population like children and idiots by talking down to them at a time when their credibility was at an all time low. The result, they got their arses handed to them.
Personally I hope they take that money and invest it in a school of excellence for television interviewers. This kind of aggressive interviewing technique that doesn't allow the interviewee to fully articulate their point before bouncing on to the next question with the intention of trying to induce a semantic trip-up has become tiring to the extreme.
Secondly this line of argument was a strawman constantly used by the Remain campaign, by which they demanded the Leave campaign commit to a post Brexit plan knowing full well that's politically impossible. The actual name for a plan in politics is a manifesto and the Remain party can't have a manifesto because they are not a political party and this isn't a general election where they will be handed a mandate to implement a manifesto (even if they did have one). In my opinion it's these types of parlor tricks and sleight of hand moves that lost this election for the Remain campaign, they treated the population like children and idiots by talking down to them at a time when their credibility was at an all time low. The result, they got their arses handed to them.
Personally I hope they take that money and invest it in a school of excellence for television interviewers. This kind of aggressive interviewing technique that doesn't allow the interviewee to fully articulate their point before bouncing on to the next question with the intention of trying to induce a semantic trip-up has become tiring to the extreme.
Oh come on. Leave had a huge bus with that slogan on its side. It's safe to assume it's a pledge of sorts given the circumstances, whether or not you want to call it a manifesto.
It's totally disingenuous to suggest that a large proportion of voters would have seen that and assumes it's what Leave stands for.
It's totally disingenuous to suggest that a large proportion of voters would have seen that and assumes it's what Leave stands for.
I think people are intelligent enough to realise that such statements are more general expressions of intent rather than pledges set in stone, but there are of course some exceptions.
TheGrimReaper wrote: ↑Mon Sep 02, 2019 1:45 pmSlavedog, you do not belong on this forum as you talk too much sense.
A general expression of intent that is reneged on three hours after the results are announced. That redefines the word general.
It was repeated over and over again during the debates, or at least it was when I was in the uk for six weeks earlier this year and it was pretty much the only policy platform that was solid and could be held and dissected, largely because there was so much debate over how accurate that figure was.
But now we are told it's just a general statement of intent and they didn't mean to be taken literally.
It was repeated over and over again during the debates, or at least it was when I was in the uk for six weeks earlier this year and it was pretty much the only policy platform that was solid and could be held and dissected, largely because there was so much debate over how accurate that figure was.
But now we are told it's just a general statement of intent and they didn't mean to be taken literally.
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All of us here seem to know that the Leave crowd doesn't have authority to make these promises.
But they continued to make them anyway. Why?
Because some people were believing them.
I firmly believe that there is a massive block of naive people who believed the bluster and voted Leave. It's been a massive deception.
It is interesting to look at demographics of those is each camp.
Generally Leavers were older, not as educated, lower income & not holding a passport.
Tell a lie enough times and people believe it as fact.
Farage said a few hours after the election that it was a mistake.
A mistake that he conveniently waited until after polling to correct.
But they continued to make them anyway. Why?
Because some people were believing them.
I firmly believe that there is a massive block of naive people who believed the bluster and voted Leave. It's been a massive deception.
It is interesting to look at demographics of those is each camp.
Generally Leavers were older, not as educated, lower income & not holding a passport.
Tell a lie enough times and people believe it as fact.
Farage said a few hours after the election that it was a mistake.
A mistake that he conveniently waited until after polling to correct.
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- MerkinMaker
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And at the end of the day that's exactly what all this boils down to, the belief by liberals that a large portion of the British people are stupid and should be told what's best for them. The tone of the media after the exit vote has been patronising to the extreme.scobienz wrote:It's totally disingenuous to suggest that a large proportion of voters would have seen that and assumes it's what Leave stands for.
I think the urban, university educated liberals of the UK that did so well under Blair and Cameron should seriously consider taking a deep breath and then shutting the fuck up, because if they keep banging the drum they're currently banging we're going to have a general election before the year is out and UKIP will end up being in the position of king maker prior to an exit negotiation.
Obviously I would quite like that outcome, so please feel free to bang away!
The debate centred on how much money would be freed up by a Leave vote. I think it's obvious to pretty much anyone that exactly how that money gets spent would have to be decided later. And I could be wrong, but I don't think Farage actually said it would go to the NHS, other people in the Leave campaign did.scobienz wrote:A general expression of intent that is reneged on three hours after the results are announced. That redefines the word general.
It was repeated over and over again during the debates, or at least it was when I was in the uk for six weeks earlier this year and it was pretty much the only policy platform that was solid and could be held and dissected, largely because there was so much debate over how accurate that figure was.
But now we are told it's just a general statement of intent and they didn't mean to be taken literally.
TheGrimReaper wrote: ↑Mon Sep 02, 2019 1:45 pmSlavedog, you do not belong on this forum as you talk too much sense.
I don't think the UK voted leave because of how much money was being spent, or not in the grand scheme of things.
They voted leave because they've had decades of headlines about how the EU is running the Uk for the worse.
Whether its true. Who knows. Blame the media.
They voted leave because they've had decades of headlines about how the EU is running the Uk for the worse.
Whether its true. Who knows. Blame the media.
pew, pew, pew, pew!
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Breaking news - Politicians being economical with the truth to win an election .
"Everywhere we go .. people want to know ...who we are... where we come from !"
Tartan Army retired foot soldier
Tartan Army retired foot soldier
It looks like the hangover might have consequences after all. So many people feel angry and cheated.
What are the chances of a 2nd referendum?
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/po ... 02516.html
What are the chances of a 2nd referendum?
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/po ... 02516.html
I would go back to the polling station and vote to stay, simply because this morning the reality is kicking in,” she said.
“I wish we had the opportunity to vote again,” she added, saying she was “very disappointed”.
Khembe Gibbons, a lifeguard from Bury St Edmunds in Suffolk, also said she had regrets about her decision after Mr Farage said he could not guarantee NHS funding.
"We've left the EU, David Cameron's resigned, we're left with Boris, and Nigel has just basically given away that the NHS claim was a lie,” she wrote.
"I personally voted leave believing these lies, and I regret it more than anything, I feel genuinely robbed of my vote."
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- Wun Gwo Pee
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You're wrong. Farage did say it, but of course it was just a general statement of intent and noone should take it seriously. See the video here.slavedog wrote:And I could be wrong, but I don't think Farage actually said it would go to the NHS, other people in the Leave campaign did.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/po ... 02831.html
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- MerkinMaker
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Not a chance. Even if it was legally possible it would be political suicide for either of the main parties.
This was an anti-establishment vote and if the establishment try to push for a revote they'll be crucified. Especially over the coming weeks when those who were scared out of voting Leave realize the sky hasn't fallen in.
The two main parties are in disarray. Labour has just realized what everyone else knew a decade ago, they can no longer rely on the working class vote and the Tories deeply divided after bitter infighting over brexit.
This was an anti-establishment vote and if the establishment try to push for a revote they'll be crucified. Especially over the coming weeks when those who were scared out of voting Leave realize the sky hasn't fallen in.
The two main parties are in disarray. Labour has just realized what everyone else knew a decade ago, they can no longer rely on the working class vote and the Tories deeply divided after bitter infighting over brexit.
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- I Am Losing It All to the Internet
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Surely in a parliamentary democracy it should be the mps that decide the fate of a.country. Those people who are supposed to have some idea of the ramifications of big changes. Instead now people who voted to leave are saying they didn't know the full effects of what would happen. The financial markets responded fairly quickly though. Sucks to be paid in sterling if you're looking at the exchange rate.
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