Brexit: the £ billion lie
-
- MerkinMaker
- Reactions: 62
- Posts: 3232
- Joined: Wed Mar 21, 2012 11:04 am
So the press manage to dig up half a dozen morons and some how that's now been extrapolated into most voters not knowing what they were voting for?
You lost, suck it up and move on.
You lost, suck it up and move on.
I watched the clip. He said he'd he'd like to see the money go to schools, hospitals and GPs. That's not the same as making a pledge that all the money will go to the NHS.alanclarke72 wrote:You're wrong. Farage did say it, but of course it was just a general statement of intent and noone should take it seriously. See the video here.slavedog wrote:And I could be wrong, but I don't think Farage actually said it would go to the NHS, other people in the Leave campaign did.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/po ... 02831.html
TheGrimReaper wrote: ↑Mon Sep 02, 2019 1:45 pmSlavedog, you do not belong on this forum as you talk too much sense.
This^slavedog wrote:I watched the clip. He said he'd he'd like to see the money go to schools, hospitals and GPs. That's not the same as making a pledge that all the money will go to the NHS.alanclarke72 wrote:You're wrong. Farage did say it, but of course it was just a general statement of intent and noone should take it seriously. See the video here.slavedog wrote:And I could be wrong, but I don't think Farage actually said it would go to the NHS, other people in the Leave campaign did.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/po ... 02831.html
alanclarke72 is rubbishing his own argument.
There was a referendum.
One man one vote.
The majority voted to Leave.
Get over it.
If you don't believe in democracy what system do you believe in?
Should only the top 10% of intellectuals be allowed to vote?
Maybe only the top 1%.
Even better how about only the top 1000 people.
You can see where this argument ends, you are arguing for a dictatorship which is what the Brexit camp successfully argued against.
edit: I didn't have a vote so I don't have a horse in this race. I am simply commenting on the (rather amusing) reactions.
-
- Wun Gwo Pee
- Reactions: 0
- Posts: 2484
- Joined: Thu Dec 25, 2014 8:07 am
Spin it any way you like. He and the Leave campaign jointly gave the distinct impression that the 350m (and we know that number was a lie, by the way) would be reinvested into the NHS. It was on the bus. It was repeated numerous times in debates and speeches.slavedog wrote:I watched the clip. He said he'd he'd like to see the money go to schools, hospitals and GPs. That's not the same as making a pledge that all the money will go to the NHS.alanclarke72 wrote:You're wrong. Farage did say it, but of course it was just a general statement of intent and noone should take it seriously. See the video here.slavedog wrote:And I could be wrong, but I don't think Farage actually said it would go to the NHS, other people in the Leave campaign did.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/po ... 02831.html
Hours later he said that was a mistake. A Leave campaigning Tory yesterday said that if voters expect EU immigration to stop as a result of Brexit, they are going to be severely disappointed. Another central campaign platform; another lie.
Do I believe in democracy? It's the best of a bad job, frankly, but when voters are manipulated and lied to by cynical opportunists like Gove, Johnson and Farage, then I think it's right to question what's happened.
Especially as Farage himself said in May that if Remain won by 52-48 he would be demanding a new referendum if the turnout was less than 75%. The lying manipulative bigot has gone very quiet on that point.
Politicians lying?
Who'd have thunk it.
Oh, and don't forget that Gove and Boris are journalists, who've both been sacked for lying.
Who'd have thunk it.
Oh, and don't forget that Gove and Boris are journalists, who've both been sacked for lying.
Last edited by YaTingPom on Sun Jun 26, 2016 3:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.
pew, pew, pew, pew!
Not spinning anything, I just think that there's a fairly obvious difference between giving an impression and making a pledge.alanclarke72 wrote:Spin it any way you like. He and the Leave campaign jointly gave the distinct impression that the 350m (and we know that number was a lie, by the way) would be reinvested into the NHS. It was on the bus. It was repeated numerous times in debates and speeches.slavedog wrote:I watched the clip. He said he'd he'd like to see the money go to schools, hospitals and GPs. That's not the same as making a pledge that all the money will go to the NHS.alanclarke72 wrote:You're wrong. Farage did say it, but of course it was just a general statement of intent and noone should take it seriously. See the video here.slavedog wrote:And I could be wrong, but I don't think Farage actually said it would go to the NHS, other people in the Leave campaign did.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/po ... 02831.html
Hours later he said that was a mistake. A Leave campaigning Tory yesterday said that if voters expect EU immigration to stop as a result of Brexit, they are going to be severely disappointed. Another central campaign platform; another lie.
Do I believe in democracy? It's the best of a bad job, frankly, but when voters are manipulated and lied to by cynical opportunists like Gove, Johnson and Farage, then I think it's right to question what's happened.
Especially as Farage himself said in May that if Remain won by 52-48 he would be demanding a new referendum if the turnout was less than 75%. The lying manipulative bigot has gone very quiet on that point.
I said I could be wrong and still could be but not based on the clip you posted.
Sent from my SM-J700F using Tapatalk
TheGrimReaper wrote: ↑Mon Sep 02, 2019 1:45 pmSlavedog, you do not belong on this forum as you talk too much sense.
Very true and this whole bus thing is a perfect example of that.starkmonster wrote:
In my opinion it's these types of parlor tricks and sleight of hand moves that lost this election for the Remain campaign, they treated the population like children and idiots by talking down to them at a time when their credibility was at an all time low. The result, they got their arses handed to them.
Here's the wording;
'We send the EU 350 million a week
Let's fund the NHS instead'
As far as I am concerned 'let's' is used to make suggestions. For example 'Alright mate, I've finished work early' , 'Nice one, me too! let's go down the river and sink a few'.
In no way is it a promise nor a pledge.
'Let's' is also primarily used when we are making decisions, particularly when we are making decisions about free time or financial windfalls. It's used when the decision is totally up to us what we do with our time or our money.
The true meaning of that bus sign is firstly, plain and simple, a suggestion of what we could do with moneys saved by leaving the EU. But far more importantly it subtly emphasizes the point that it is our decision what we do with the money, that we have the ability to make our own choices about how we spend our money, about our laws. It also makes you feel like you are very much part of the decision and that your opinion really counts. One of the real key arguments.
It's a very clever, well worded sign yet the media and even Eurocrats in Brussels are accusing him of lying, insisting it was a promise and therefore yet again thoroughly insulting the intelligence of the British voter who does actually understand plain English.
Paint it any colour you like, it is obvious for everybody but the most obtuse that they have bee manipulating voters into believing the money saved on the EU budget would go towards schools, hospitals, pensions.
They conned the British into brexit and are now squirming when faced with their lies. Pathetic, esp Boris Johnson. Farage has at least the merit to be consistent, an unsavory conman too but for a cause he believes in.
They conned the British into brexit and are now squirming when faced with their lies. Pathetic, esp Boris Johnson. Farage has at least the merit to be consistent, an unsavory conman too but for a cause he believes in.
I'll stick to English thanks.logos wrote:Paint it any colour you like
- Khmerhamster
- Bark plop plop bark woof woof
- Reactions: 0
- Posts: 1519
- Joined: Mon May 09, 2016 2:14 pm
What does that even mean?Jock Jock wrote:I'll stick to English thanks.logos wrote:Paint it any colour you like
- Miguelito
- Ordinary Schmo
- Reactions: 219
- Posts: 7053
- Joined: Tue Jan 13, 2015 11:19 pm
- Location: Penh's Hill
How about the real lie that when you take into account the amount of money the UK gets back from the EU on a weekly basis, it's actually about half of that 350 million pounds. That's not even mentioning economic and other social benefits, simply direct payments.
The funniest thing, in a sad way really, similar to an obese person ordering a super-sized meal at McDonalds with a diet coke, is that the regions that voted to leave are those that receive the most EU subsidies, such as Wales and the English countryside. Take this, Regions Demand UK Govt Matches Lost EU Funds, where Cornwall and some towns in Yorkshire want guarantees they will not miss out on cash they were due to receive from the bloc.
And then, There are liars and then there’s Boris Johnson and Michael Gove.
The funniest thing, in a sad way really, similar to an obese person ordering a super-sized meal at McDonalds with a diet coke, is that the regions that voted to leave are those that receive the most EU subsidies, such as Wales and the English countryside. Take this, Regions Demand UK Govt Matches Lost EU Funds, where Cornwall and some towns in Yorkshire want guarantees they will not miss out on cash they were due to receive from the bloc.
And then, There are liars and then there’s Boris Johnson and Michael Gove.
Johnson and Gove carried with them a second feature of unscrupulous journalism: the contempt for practical questions. Never has a revolution in Britain’s position in the world been advocated with such carelessness. The Leave campaign has no plan. And that is not just because there was a shamefully under-explored division between the bulk of Brexit voters who wanted the strong welfare state and solid communities of their youth and the leaders of the campaign who wanted Britain to become an offshore tax haven. Vote Leave did not know how to resolve difficulties with Scotland, Ireland, the refugee camp at Calais, and a thousand other problems, and did not want to know either.
It responded to all who predicted the chaos now engulfing us like an unscrupulous pundit who knows that his living depends on shutting up the experts who gainsay him. For why put the pundit on air, why pay him a penny, if experts can show that everything he says is windy nonsense? The worst journalists, editors and broadcasters know their audiences want entertainment, not expertise. If you doubt me, ask when you last saw panellists on Question Time who knew what they were talking about.
Naturally, Michael Gove, former Times columnist, responded to the thousands of economists who warned he was taking an extraordinary risk with the sneer that will follow him to his grave: “People in this country have had enough of experts.” He’s been saying the same for years.
Vote Leave assured the electorate it would reclaim a supposed £350m Brussels takes from us each week. They knew it was a lie. Between them, they promised to spend £111bn on the NHS, cuts to VAT and council tax, higher pensions, a better transport system and replacements for the EU subsidies to the arts, science, farmers and deprived regions. When boring experts said that, far from being rich, we would face a £40bn hole in our public finances, Vote Leave knew how to fight back. In Johnsonian fashion, it said that the truth tellers were corrupt liars in Brussels’ pocket.
It means I will stick to the facts as written on the bus in plain englsih rather than making up imaginary promises.Khmerhamster wrote:What does that even mean?Jock Jock wrote:I'll stick to English thanks.logos wrote:Paint it any colour you like
-
- MerkinMaker
- Reactions: 62
- Posts: 3232
- Joined: Wed Mar 21, 2012 11:04 am
Have you considered that the unpopularity of the EU in those areas was the reason they were getting the money? The bribe obviously didn't work.Miguelito wrote:The funniest thing, in a sad way really, similar to an obese person ordering a super-sized meal at McDonalds with a diet coke, is that the regions that voted to leave are those that receive the most EU subsidies, such as Wales and the English countryside.
Regarding the amount, the rebate part I accept, but discounting the amount spent by the EU in the UK is ridiculous. That's like saying that you don't pay any tax because that tax income is spent on things that possibly benefit you.
Whichever way you slice it, it's still a shit load of money.
Personally I think using that highly debatable figure was genius by the Leave camp, it made one of three issues that polls showed as red button issues remain front and center for the entire campaign. The Remain camp took the bait bringing it up over and over without realizing that the important point is that a huge sum of money is being spent on membership and for most people whether or not it's £13b or £18b is a moot point.
Let me get this right. You're seriously saying areas who get EU funding got it "because the EU is unpopular in those areas"?starkmonster wrote:Have you considered that the unpopularity of the EU in those areas was the reason they were getting the money? The bribe obviously didn't work.
You usually come up with relatively reasonable, or at least intelligent arguments. This is both far out there and incredibly stupid.
-
- Similar Topics
- Replies
- Views
- Last post
-
-
EX Pats in Cambodia are ignorant on Brexit
by TheGrimReaper » Mon Sep 02, 2019 1:45 pm » in Cambodia Speakeasy - 70 Replies
- 88415 Views
-
Last post by Petrol Head
Fri Sep 06, 2019 8:22 pm
-
-
-
The New and Improved Expat Brexit Referendum
by kungfufighter » Sat Aug 31, 2019 4:38 pm » in Cambodia Speakeasy - 59 Replies
- 31136 Views
-
Last post by batshitcrazyweirdo
Thu Sep 05, 2019 12:14 am
-
-
- 40 Replies
- 19202 Views
-
Last post by RobW
Wed Mar 31, 2021 3:08 am
-
-
'The men who plundered Europe': Warning! Brexit related
by kungfufighter » Sat Sep 21, 2019 2:15 pm » in 'Not' Cambodia - 0 Replies
- 3677 Views
-
Last post by kungfufighter
Sat Sep 21, 2019 2:15 pm
-