Okay... you strongly dislike Islam but your definition as well as Cambridge and Merriam-Webster's definitions don't say anything about "being supported by an enormous amount of evidence and research... it simply says, " strongly and unfairly dislikes other people, ideas, etc".Harold wrote:No. The word Muslim covers individuals who have a certain set of beliefs and rituals. Any person of any race can choose to become a Muslim. Sadly, it is illegal for Muslims in many countries to leave their religion because the penalty for apostasy is death.
The only way that I could be 'racist' againts Muslims would be if Islam has a racial component inherent in the religion itself. The Prophet Muhammad and his followers did claim that Allah chose an Arab to be his final messenger because Arabic is the most poetic and beautiful of all languages spoken by men. However, this would imply a belief in the superiority of the Arabic tongue and not a superiority in race, although Uthman and a few others wanted to keep Islam among the Arabs for reasons that could be described as racist. In the final analysis, Muhammad said on his deathbed that Muslims should accept anyone righteous as their leader, even if their head was shaped like a dried prune (a black African) What Muhammad meant was that any individual of any race had the potential to be a good Muslim and a worthy slave of Allah.
A common definition of bigoted:
"a person who strongly and unfairly dislikes other people, ideas, etc"
I strongly dislike Islam. However, my dislike is supported by an enormous amount of evidence and research. I don't unfairly dislike Islam. I do not consider my views to be in anyway bigoted.
Changes to Turkey's marriage laws.
- salvajeuno
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இ லொவெ ம்ய் டௌக்ஹ்டெர்ஸ் மொரெ தன் அன்ய்தின்க் இன் தெ வொர்ல்ட்
Unfairly would mean that there is no reason for disliking other people, ideas, etc. I have many reasons for disliking Islam and a substantial percentage of Muslims.
Very few people would use the word bigoted in the context of a Jewish person disliking Nazis i.e. "That Jew sure is bigoted when it comes to the neo-Nazis" Because the Jew in this case would have many good reasons to dislike neo-Nazis.
Similarly, there are many good reasons why a non-Muslim would dislike Islam and Muslims.
Very few people would use the word bigoted in the context of a Jewish person disliking Nazis i.e. "That Jew sure is bigoted when it comes to the neo-Nazis" Because the Jew in this case would have many good reasons to dislike neo-Nazis.
Similarly, there are many good reasons why a non-Muslim would dislike Islam and Muslims.
I am obviously using 'towelhead' to refer to members of a religion, not members of a race or a certain genetic background. Only an ignorant racist woul conflate the term Muslim with the term Middle Easterner.kinard wrote:salvajeuno wrote:...Would you say your statement, "backwards Muslim towelheads" could be construed as a racist and bigoted remark?Harold wrote:No. ..A common definition of bigoted:
"a person who strongly and unfairly dislikes other people, ideas, etc"
I strongly dislike Islam. However, my dislike is supported by an enormous amount of evidence and research. I don't unfairly dislike Islam. I do not consider my views to be in anyway bigoted.
- salvajeuno
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Okay Harold... enough for now... I'm off to listen to Clair de Lune.Harold wrote:Unfairly would mean that there is no reason for disliking other people, ideas, etc. I have many reasons for disliking Islam and a substantial percentage of Muslims.
Very few people would use the word bigoted in the context of a Jewish person disliking Nazis i.e. "That Jew sure is bigoted when it comes to the neo-Nazis" Because the Jew in this case would have many good reasons to dislike neo-Nazis.
Similarly, there are many good reasons why a non-Muslim would dislike Islam and Muslims.
இ லொவெ ம்ய் டௌக்ஹ்டெர்ஸ் மொரெ தன் அன்ய்தின்க் இன் தெ வொர்ல்ட்
As long as you understand that rock and roll and most types of music is considered haraam in Islam.
"And of mankind is he who purchases idle talks (i.e. music, singing) to mislead (men) from the path of Allaah…” [Luqmaan 31:6] "
"Ibn al-Qayyim (may Allaah have mercy on him) said: The interpretation of the Sahaabah and Taabi’in, that ‘idle talk’ refers to singing, is sufficient. This was reported with saheeh isnaads from Ibn ‘Abbaas and Ibn Mas’ood. Abu’l-Sahbaa’ said: I asked Ibn Mas’ood about the aayah (interpretation of the meaning), ‘“And of mankind is he who purchases idle talks’ [Luqmaan 31:6]. He said: By Allaah, besides Whom there is no other god, this means singing – and he repeated it three times"
"And of mankind is he who purchases idle talks (i.e. music, singing) to mislead (men) from the path of Allaah…” [Luqmaan 31:6] "
"Ibn al-Qayyim (may Allaah have mercy on him) said: The interpretation of the Sahaabah and Taabi’in, that ‘idle talk’ refers to singing, is sufficient. This was reported with saheeh isnaads from Ibn ‘Abbaas and Ibn Mas’ood. Abu’l-Sahbaa’ said: I asked Ibn Mas’ood about the aayah (interpretation of the meaning), ‘“And of mankind is he who purchases idle talks’ [Luqmaan 31:6]. He said: By Allaah, besides Whom there is no other god, this means singing – and he repeated it three times"
- Dahon
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My comment is that Turkey now should realize that it's bid for EU membership will probably have to wait a few decades or so. Turkey has for many years been on a trajectory towards more religiously based legislation as well as a more authoritarian leadership style and these trends are usually not cured in just a few years. But it is sad to see that they choose this path since it usually does not bring prosperity and happiness to a people.
Cambodia - tickets booked, moved on to mission planning DONE
Mission completed, reported to Col Braddock. DONE
Now ranting about the experience ONGOING
Mission completed, reported to Col Braddock. DONE
Now ranting about the experience ONGOING
I think a similar law is already in place in KSA and Pakistan, but I might be wrong. But rather than discussing Harold's stupid opening gambit, shouldnt't the implications of this law be discussed? and of course is it fair to say that Islamic nations are tending to move closer and closer to Shariah law, Egypt being another example of this trend since the 'Arab Spring'? Or is it none of our business and we should not interfere?
This particular issue isn't really the problem of anyone living outside of Muslim countries. Outsiders can and should criticize these changes taking place. Any sensible non-Muslim with ties to a western country should see this as further evidence as to why Muslims are a threat to their society.
Why is it "stupid" to use the term towelhead to describe people who want to legalize child abuse? It is incredibly offensive and inappropriate to bring up my intelligence and the word 'stupid' is an ableist term when used in a pejorative context.
Why is it "stupid" to use the term towelhead to describe people who want to legalize child abuse? It is incredibly offensive and inappropriate to bring up my intelligence and the word 'stupid' is an ableist term when used in a pejorative context.
- Miguelito
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In all of that infinite wisdom based upon your enormous amount of evidence and research, you should know that no one can "choose to become a Muslim." They believe that every human is born with a submission to allah, or "fitrah," and that people do not "convert" or "choose to become Muslim"; they were simply raised by their parents incorrectly in the wrong faith, and therefor "revert" back to Islam.Harold wrote:No. The word Muslim covers individuals who have a certain set of beliefs and rituals. Any person of any race can choose to become a Muslim. Sadly, it is illegal for Muslims in many countries to leave their religion because the penalty for apostasy is death.
The only way that I could be 'racist' againts Muslims would be if Islam has a racial component inherent in the religion itself. The Prophet Muhammad and his followers did claim that Allah chose an Arab to be his final messenger because Arabic is the most poetic and beautiful of all languages spoken by men. However, this would imply a belief in the superiority of the Arabic tongue and not a superiority in race, although Uthman and a few others wanted to keep Islam among the Arabs for reasons that could be described as racist. In the final analysis, Muhammad said on his deathbed that Muslims should accept anyone righteous as their leader, even if their head was shaped like a dried prune (a black African) What Muhammad meant was that any individual of any race had the potential to be a good Muslim and a worthy slave of Allah.
A common definition of bigoted:
"a person who strongly and unfairly dislikes other people, ideas, etc"
I strongly dislike Islam. However, my dislike is supported by an enormous amount of evidence and research. I don't unfairly dislike Islam. I do not consider my views to be in anyway bigoted.
It's really a simple concept, I'm surprised you missed that during your years studying this topic.
That is an absolutely absurd criticism for so many reasons but chiefly because I was using the verb 'choose'
to mean any individual of any genetic background choosing to convert or as you say to 'revert' back to Islam. And for your information most mainstream Muslims will use the verb 'to convert' in English to mean the process of an individual becoming a Muslim. Even Wahhabis who publish in the English language use the verb 'to convert' to mean the process of an individual embracing Islam.
But what their specific theological beliefs are concerning fitrah is for the most part irrelevant to the point I was making. My entire point was rejecting the label 'racist' because in fact any person from any background can become a Muslim and therefore criticising Muslims is not the same as criticizing a race. Perhaps I could've explained the concept of fitrah but that would've taken up more space and the explanation itself was not necessary.
I would suggest spending more time reading works on Islam in the English language as it might clarify some of these linguistic issues for you. Armenians generally excel at languages. I have faith in you.
to mean any individual of any genetic background choosing to convert or as you say to 'revert' back to Islam. And for your information most mainstream Muslims will use the verb 'to convert' in English to mean the process of an individual becoming a Muslim. Even Wahhabis who publish in the English language use the verb 'to convert' to mean the process of an individual embracing Islam.
But what their specific theological beliefs are concerning fitrah is for the most part irrelevant to the point I was making. My entire point was rejecting the label 'racist' because in fact any person from any background can become a Muslim and therefore criticising Muslims is not the same as criticizing a race. Perhaps I could've explained the concept of fitrah but that would've taken up more space and the explanation itself was not necessary.
I would suggest spending more time reading works on Islam in the English language as it might clarify some of these linguistic issues for you. Armenians generally excel at languages. I have faith in you.
Last edited by Harold on Tue Nov 22, 2016 1:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.
No. That is not what I was saying at all. Re-read my posts. The concept of fitrah is not the most pertinent concept to bring up and because I was arguing against being labeled a 'racist,' I didn't really see it as necessary to bring up the concept of fitrah as it would require further explanation for most posters.
There are numerous aspects of theology that I obviously omitted. You are basically criticising me for omitting information that was not necessary for making my point.
Also, nobody should take me at face value for being an expert on the subject of Islam. I don't claim to have intimate knowledge of Arabic or Classical Arabic. A person does not need to be an authority on Islam to reject the 'racist' and 'bigoted' labels. A person does not not need to be an authority on Islam to recognize just how troubling practices and teachings there are in the religion.
There are numerous aspects of theology that I obviously omitted. You are basically criticising me for omitting information that was not necessary for making my point.
Also, nobody should take me at face value for being an expert on the subject of Islam. I don't claim to have intimate knowledge of Arabic or Classical Arabic. A person does not need to be an authority on Islam to reject the 'racist' and 'bigoted' labels. A person does not not need to be an authority on Islam to recognize just how troubling practices and teachings there are in the religion.
Last edited by Harold on Tue Nov 22, 2016 1:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.
I did not misspeak. I stand by every thing I have said so far. I did not need to explain the concept of fitrah because it was not necessary for the argument I was presenting. That said, I will concede that the concept of fitrah could have been used to bolster my argument.
I am only even giving you the time of day because I fear that a number of posters here will read your response and think that you somehow got me when you didn't.
I am only even giving you the time of day because I fear that a number of posters here will read your response and think that you somehow got me when you didn't.
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