Will Assange stand by his pledge to give himself up following Chelsea Manning clemency?
In this case clemency = commuted.Gin&Tonic wrote:Manning wasn't given clemency. Just had his/her sentence commuted.
Obama didn't hold up his end so Assange should stay where he is.
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Now Assange just needs his CIA frame-up in Sweden to go away.
Receiving and trafficking in stolen documents can carry the same penalties as the act of stealing the documents. Receiving and publishing classified government information are both felonies in the US.Harold wrote:Who are you talking about exactly? Assange has never stolen any documents. His organization merely publishes what they receive.Edwardo wrote:Whistle-blowing and exposing of serious criminal behavior by any government is one thing. Stealing hundreds of thousands of classified or personal documents and releasing them all just because you can without any thought or higher motive, or releasing them to other governments to promote their own agendas, is plain theft and/or espionage. Quite a large difference there.
"The final straw actually involved my mortal enemy vladimir, who you may or may not know is an insufferable, overposting asshat."
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Anyway, whatever happen to that chap Bradley Manning, is he still in jail?
My posts are just jokes, maybe they're rude, offensive, and politically incorrect. They're not my opinion, viewpoint, idea, or judgement, but they're just fucking jokes so lighten up.
"Chap" is sexist!Garry Crabtree wrote:Anyway, whatever happen to that chap Bradley Manning, is he still in jail?
"The final straw actually involved my mortal enemy vladimir, who you may or may not know is an insufferable, overposting asshat."
@Edwardo
Sorry for all of the questions and I appreciate if you take the time to answer them:
What is the difference between receiving and publishing classified information and receiving and trafficking classified information?
What is the difference between classified information and stolen information/a stolen document?
When has publishing stolen documents carried the same penalty as stealing stolen documents? Did the New York Times traffick in stolen documents when they published the Pentagon Papers? Didn't New York Times v. United States establish a precedent that it is permissible for media outlets to publish classified material?
Personally, I don't think Assange has done anything that should be considered as criminal. I think what Manning did was criminal and he deserved to be prosecuted. Although Obama probably made the right decision to commute his sentence.
Sorry for all of the questions and I appreciate if you take the time to answer them:
What is the difference between receiving and publishing classified information and receiving and trafficking classified information?
What is the difference between classified information and stolen information/a stolen document?
When has publishing stolen documents carried the same penalty as stealing stolen documents? Did the New York Times traffick in stolen documents when they published the Pentagon Papers? Didn't New York Times v. United States establish a precedent that it is permissible for media outlets to publish classified material?
Personally, I don't think Assange has done anything that should be considered as criminal. I think what Manning did was criminal and he deserved to be prosecuted. Although Obama probably made the right decision to commute his sentence.
FTFYEdwardo wrote:Whistle-blowing and exposing of serious criminal behavior by any government is one thing. Stealing hundreds of thousands of jobs or worker's incomes and releasing them all to third world countries with no human, let alone workers, rights just because you can - without any thought or higher motive other than greed for the few, or building up the GDP of other governments to promote their own agendas, is plain theft and/or espionage. Quite a large difference there.
What's the difference between Patraeus and Assange?
Last edited by Abou-Gor on Thu Jan 19, 2017 7:51 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Its rather funny to think that if Bradley Manning wasn't in prison, he'd probably have married this girl Chelsea bird.Edwardo wrote:"Chap" is sexist!Garry Crabtree wrote:Anyway, whatever happen to that chap Bradley Manning, is he still in jail?
My posts are just jokes, maybe they're rude, offensive, and politically incorrect. They're not my opinion, viewpoint, idea, or judgement, but they're just fucking jokes so lighten up.
It may sound a bit convoluted, but the Supreme Court ruling was that the government couldn't stop the free press from publishing anything, but the government could still prosecute them for doing so if it could be proven any laws were broken.Harold wrote:@Edwardo
Sorry for all of the questions and I appreciate if you take the time to answer them:
What is the difference between receiving and publishing classified information and receiving and trafficking classified information?
What is the difference between classified information and stolen information/a stolen document?
When has publishing stolen documents carried the same penalty as stealing stolen documents? Did the New York Times traffick in stolen documents when they published the Pentagon Papers? Didn't New York Times v. United States establish a precedent that it is permissible for media outlets to publish classified material?
Personally, I don't think Assange has done anything that should be considered as criminal. I think what Manning did was criminal and he deserved to be prosecuted. Although Obama probably made the right decision to commute his sentence.
The New York Times still left themselves open to criminal prosecution under the Espionage Act by publishing the Pentagon Papers, despite the Court ruling. The decision was made to not prosecute such a national institution (so considered at the time) as the New York Times, as the Attorney General demurred to the DA of New York, who felt the case could not be won before a New York jury. Assange would not get that same break.The issue before the Court in the New York Times case was "prior restraint"
http://nationalaffairs.com/publications ... gon-papers
What is the difference between Petraeus and Assange? The Obama administration would not prosecute Petraeus for political reasons, although Obama fired him immediately. Petraeus was a very popular military commander, and the classified information he "leaked" was deemed not of overwhelming significance. Again, Assange would not similarly be let of the hook for similar actions, unless he has pictures of Trump on the receiving end of a Russian golden shower or something.
"The final straw actually involved my mortal enemy vladimir, who you may or may not know is an insufferable, overposting asshat."
Julian isn't going anywhere:
Unless:
Bless
http://www.thedailybeast.com/cheats/201 ... ce=copyurlWikiLeaks founder Julian Assange said Wednesday, via his lawyer, that President Obama’s commutation of Chelsea Manning’s sentence does not meet the conditions of his offer to be extradited to the U.S. in return for the Army leaker’s release. “If Obama grants Manning clemency Assange will agree to US extradition despite clear unconstitutionality of DoJ case,” WikiLeaks tweeted this year. However, according to a statement from his lawyer, “Mr. Assange welcomes the announcement that Ms. Manning’s sentence will be reduced and she will be released in May, but this is well short of what he sought. Mr. Assange had called for Chelsea Manning to receive clemency and be released immediately.”
Unless:
Assange is still happy to come to the US provided all his rights are guarenteed despite White House now saying Manning was not quid-quo-pro.
Bless
Many people say that it's treason because of all lives endangered when the cables were published. Despite this, according to the military, nobody was harmed.Edwardo wrote:Stealing hundreds of thousands of classified or personal documents and releasing them all just because you can without any thought or higher motive, or releasing them to other governments to promote their own agendas, is plain theft and/or espionage. Quite a large difference there.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/ ... g-pentagonThe US counter-intelligence official who led the Pentagon's review into the fallout from the WikiLeaks disclosures of state secrets told the Bradley Manning sentencing hearing on Wednesday that no instances were ever found of any individual killed by enemy forces as a result of having been named in the releases.
Brigadier general Robert Carr, a senior counter-intelligence officer who headed the Information Review Task Force that investigated the impact of WikiLeaks disclosures on behalf of the Defense Department, told a court at Fort Meade, Maryland, that they had uncovered no specific examples of anyone who had lost his or her life in reprisals that followed the publication of the disclosures on the internet. "I don't have a specific example," he said.
It is, indeed, espionage. Chelsea Manning was evidently sentenced for violations of the Espionage Act. Who was ever tried for the crimes exposed by the leaks? Just one: Manning, the same way that John Kiriakou was the only person imprisoned for exposing crimes committed by the CIA.
Manning served 7 years of a 35 year sentence but the people responsible for the crimes she exposed served none. That is not justice.
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Assange is a hero. When we have governments and intelligence agencies that have used lies and deception to justify wars which have killed millions and left entire countries in ruin, there has to be push back. The people that make these decision have to fear that their lies will be uncovered and one day they will be held accountable.
Knowledge is power.
Knowledge is power.
To which specific exposed crimes do you refer?Alexandra wrote: Who was ever tried for the crimes exposed by the leaks?
"The final straw actually involved my mortal enemy vladimir, who you may or may not know is an insufferable, overposting asshat."
Pick one. Here is the list of things we know thanks to Manning.Edwardo wrote:To which specific exposed crimes do you refer?
https://www.thenation.com/article/long- ... e-manning/• Yemeni president lied to his own people, claiming his military carried out air strikes on militants actually done by the US. All part of giving US full rein in country against terrorists.
• Details on Vatican hiding big sex abuse cases in Ireland.
• US tried to get Spain to curb its probes of Gitmo torture and rendition.
• Egyptian torturers trained by FBI—although allegedly to teach the human rights issues.
• State Dept. memo: US-backed 2009 coup in Honduras was “illegal and unconstitutional.”
• Cables on Tunisia appear to help spark revolt in that country. The country’s ruling elite described as “The Family,” with Mafia-like skimming throughout the economy. The country’s first lady may have made massive profits off a private school.
• US knew all about massive corruption in Tunisia back in 2006 but went on supporting the government anyway, making it the pillar of its North Africa policy.
• Cables showed the UK promised in 2009 to protect US interests in the official Chilcot inquiry on the start of the Iraq war.
* Oil giant Shell claims to have “inserted staff” and fully infiltrated Nigeria's government.
• US pressured the European Union to accept GM—genetic modification, that is.
• Washington was misled by our own diplomats on Russia-Georgia showdown.
• Extremely important historical document finally released in full: Ambassador April Glaspie’s cable from Iraq in 1990 on meeting with Saddam Hussein before Kuwait invasion.
• The UK sidestepped a ban on housing cluster bombs. Officials concealed from Parliament how the US is allowed to bring weapons on to British soil in defiance of treaty.
• The New York Times: “From hundreds of diplomatic cables, Afghanistan emerges as a looking-glass land where bribery, extortion and embezzlement are the norm and the honest man is a distinct outlier.”
• Afghan vice president left country with $52 million “in cash.”
• Shocking levels of US spying at the United Nations (beyond what was commonly assumed) and intense use of diplomats abroad in intelligence-gathering roles.
• Potential environmental disaster kept secret by the US when a large consignment of highly enriched uranium in Libya came close to cracking open and leaking radioactive material into the atmosphere.
• US used threats, spying, and more to try to get its way at last year’s crucial climate conference in Copenhagen.
* American and British diplomats fear Pakistan's nuclear weapons program — with poor security — could lead to fissile material falling into the hands of terrorists or a devastating nuclear exchange with India.
• Hundreds of cables detail US use of diplomats as “sales” agents, more than previously thought, centering on jet rivalry of Boeing vs. Airbus. Hints of corruption and bribes.
• Millions in US military aid for fighting Pakistani insurgents went to other gov’t uses (or stolen) instead.
• Israel wanted to bring Gaza to the ”brink of collapse.”
• The US secret services used Turkey as a base to transport terrorism suspects as part of its extraordinary rendition program.
• As protests spread in Egypt, cables revealed that strong man Suleiman was at center of government’s torture programs, causing severe backlash for Mubarak after he named Suleiman vice president during the revolt. Other cables revealed or confirmed widespread Mubarak regime corruption, police abuses and torture, and claims of massive Mubarak famiiy fortune, significantly influencing media coverage and US response.
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