Grenfell Tower fire
Grenfell Tower fire
Residents of Grenfell Tower who managed to escape the fire that ravaged their building early on Wednesday morning have described how they fled as the blaze took hold. https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/201 ... tower-fire
Grenfell Tower fire: Residents had warned of fire risk at London tower block gutted by blaze
Local residents warned of the potential fire risk in London's Grenfell Tower apartment block nearly 18 months before the complex was engulfed in a giant blaze, saying they feared people could be trapped inside if a fire broke out.
In a blog post dated January 24, 2016, the Grenfell Action Group (GAC) said a build-up of rubbish during development works posed a serious fire risk.
The group questioned whether the TMO was taking its concerns seriously, citing sluggish responses to the issues raised.
"Not for the first time we must ask how safe is Lancaster West, can staff be trusted to ensure it is safe, and what hidden fire risks might be lurking in Grenfell Tower or elsewhere on the estate?"http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-06-14/l ... sk/8617632
- Hanno
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As usual in big fires like this, it will turn out that all sort of fire safety regulations were flaunted.
When I left my hotel this morning, I used the emergency stairs, they were partially blocked as they were used as a storeroom.
When I left my hotel this morning, I used the emergency stairs, they were partially blocked as they were used as a storeroom.
"I realized that If I had to choose, I would rather have birds than airplanes."
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Exactly' its so tragic that flaunting some standard procedures leads to such tragedy. Reminds me of the Triangle Shirtwaist Factory fire in New York in 1911.Hanno wrote:As usual in big fires like this, it will turn out that all sort of fire safety regulations were flaunted.
When I left my hotel this morning, I used the emergency stairs, they were partially blocked as they were used as a storeroom.
The Triangle Shirtwaist Factory fire in New York City on March 25, 1911 was the deadliest industrial disaster in the history of the city, and one of the deadliest in US history. The fire caused the deaths of 146 garment workers – 123 women and 23 men who died from the fire, smoke inhalation, or falling or jumping to their deaths.
Because the owners had locked the doors to the stairwells and exits – a then-common practice to prevent workers from taking unauthorized breaks and to reduce theft – many of the workers who could not escape from the burning building simply jumped from the high windows.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Triangle_ ... ctory_fire
I thought they'd recently tarted it up by sticking cladding (from China, possibly) on the outiside.
If it's social housing then they'll do the cheapest they can.
If it's social housing then they'll do the cheapest they can.
pew, pew, pew, pew!
- Hanno
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Well, the people that died in a fire inside a Discotheque in Temple Town were at first prevented from leaving as security locked the doors...Mèo Đen wrote:Exactly' its so tragic that flaunting some standard procedures leads to such tragedy. Reminds me of the Triangle Shirtwaist Factory fire in New York in 1911.Hanno wrote:As usual in big fires like this, it will turn out that all sort of fire safety regulations were flaunted.
When I left my hotel this morning, I used the emergency stairs, they were partially blocked as they were used as a storeroom.
The Triangle Shirtwaist Factory fire in New York City on March 25, 1911 was the deadliest industrial disaster in the history of the city, and one of the deadliest in US history. The fire caused the deaths of 146 garment workers – 123 women and 23 men who died from the fire, smoke inhalation, or falling or jumping to their deaths.
Because the owners had locked the doors to the stairwells and exits – a then-common practice to prevent workers from taking unauthorized breaks and to reduce theft – many of the workers who could not escape from the burning building simply jumped from the high windows.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Triangle_ ... ctory_fire
"I realized that If I had to choose, I would rather have birds than airplanes."
Charles Lindbergh
Charles Lindbergh
It seems the tenants had been told to stay put in the event of fire, and they would be rescued. 200 people live in the building.
LinkResidents from a London tower block destroyed by a huge fire said people were previously told to stay inside their apartments if there was a fire.
A resident, Michael, told the BBC they had been told "if ever there was an outbreak of fire you must stay in the premises, they're fireproofed for up to an hour and by then you would have been rescued".
"Not my circus, not my monkeys" - KiR
However with a rapidly escalating external fire the "stay put" strategy was not such a good idea. The ones that evacuated quickly survived. IMO the insulation cladding put on the building looks like the culprit, looks like it was fairly conbustable, given that the fire spread up the whole building in about 40 minutes or so.kinard wrote:It seems the tenants had been told to stay put in the event of fire, and they would be rescued. They are mostly immigrants from north Africa. 200 people live in the building.
Regarding evacuation:
In the UK most residential buildings operate in a 'defend in place' strategy. That is the apartment on fire and maybe those directly adjacent are alerted automatically and evacuated but the other apartments may not be alerted to a fire. This actually works fairly well and safely for internal fires as each apartment is generally fire separated from the next so fire spread internally doesn't often occur between apartments especially with sprinkler protection. Obviously with a rapid spreading external fire the idea of defend in place doesn't work well to improve occupant safety, rather it may contribute to delays in evacuation and more exposure to fire
Regarding the alarm system: To go with a defend-in-place strategy, an integrated building wide alarm system may not have actually been required by the code or by the project engineer.
A bit on cladding:
From looking at it this most likely begun spreading so fast as a facade fire. The recently installed panels are most likely combustible or to be more specific they probably have an aluminum exterior but have a combustible core or insulation. As aluminum melts fairly easily, once the core is exposed the fire can spread rapidly across the surface preheating and melting off the aluminum skin of the panels ahead if it, exposing more combustible material and spreading faster.
Similar fires would be the lacrosse docklands fire (Melbourne) and a few of the spectacular looking fires in Dubai the past two years. These other fires though didn't spread into the building due to sprinkler systems mainly. It looks like Grenfell either didn't have a sprinkler system or it failed/was overwhelmed as the system is only designed to activate a few heads at a time and this fire would have triggered many more than the design case.
https://www.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comm ... wer_block/
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Hanno wrote:As usual in big fires like this, it will turn out that all sort of fire safety regulations were flaunted.
When I left my hotel this morning, I used the emergency stairs, they were partially blocked as they were used as a storeroom.
Yes it was complained about for a long time by residents https://grenfellactiongroup.wordpress.c ... fire-risk/
https://grenfellactiongroup.wordpress.c ... with-fire/
The new cladding was meant to be fire retardant but instead was highly combustible. Not an unheard practice in construction is the sourcing of cheap materials to claw back some of the cost of the overall project.Mèo Đen wrote:... IMO the insulation cladding put on the building looks like the culprit, looks like it was fairly conbustable, given that the fire spread up the whole building in about 40 minutes or so.
"Not my circus, not my monkeys" - KiR
Exactly, the danger of certain types of cladding has been known for about 30 years and has become a serious issue in the last few, particularly with the import of cheap substitutes as you mention. We had the whole fiasco of "cheap cladding" in Australia a couple of years ago:kinard wrote:The new cladding was meant to be fire retardant but instead was highly combustible. Not an unheard practice in construction is the sourcing of cheap materials to claw back some of the cost of the overall project.Mèo Đen wrote:... IMO the insulation cladding put on the building looks like the culprit, looks like it was fairly conbustable, given that the fire spread up the whole building in about 40 minutes or so.
Removing and replacing combustible cladding in an average high-rise building would be a logistical nightmare, and could cost millions of dollars, according to industry experts.
Victoria's building regulator has announced every high-rise built in Melbourne's CBD and inner suburbs in the past decade will be inspected for cheap, imported non-compliant cladding found to be flammable.
The Victorian Building Association's audit of 170 buildings follows recent findings that non-compliant aluminium cladding imported from China fuelled the rapid spread of a major fire in a Lacrosse tower in Docklands last year.
But removing and replacing flammable cladding could be an expensive and lengthy process that would pose a number of significant challenges for engineers. http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/repla ... hbsu4.html
Fire risk makes Iglu Brisbane high-rise uninhabitable
It has been revealed the fire risk associated with non-compliant external aluminium cladding was the cause for a brand new inner-city Brisbane high-rise to be deemed uninhabitable. The 23-storey Iglu Brisbane student accommodation building on Mary Street had been due to open this month, but issues with the building material used meant it was unable to be certified safe for habitation.
Construction, Forestry, Mining and Energy Union Queensland state secretary Michael Ravbar said the issues surrounding Iglu's non-compliant aluminium cladding were the "tip of the iceberg".
http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/queensl ... mh13y.html
THE peak body for fire safety in Australia has warned of a hidden killer in Gold Coast high-rises.
Fire Protection Association Australia chief Scott Williams described the cheap cladding used externally on buildings as: “A ticking time bomb … It’s the dirty secret of the building industry in Australia.
“What we have a real problem with is the product flowing into this country which is not what we call fit for purpose,” he said.
His warning comes after Queensland Housing and Public Works Minister Mick de Brenni revealed to the Bulletin his plans to tackle the issue at a national conference of housing ministers on the Gold Coast on Friday.
Already, Victoria and Western Australia have initiated safety audits of their high-rises to determine at-risk buildings.
http://www.goldcoastbulletin.com.au/new ... 8827df31f2
Plenty of information on the subject, maybe after this latest fire it might get read:
Fire Risks From External Cladding Panels – A Perspective From The UK http://www.probyn-miers.com/perspective ... om-the-uk/
CPD 6 2016: Fire safety of external cladding for high-rise buildings
First published in 1988, BR 135: Fire Performance of external thermal insulation for walls of multistorey buildings responded to the increasing use of thermal insulation within refurbishment programmes on multistorey residential tower blocks
Following the completion of a number of construction projects not compliant with Approved Document B or the guidance contained in BR 135, the Building Control Alliance (BCA) published a technical guidance note outlining the procedure for buildings exceeding 18m in height, and addressing common misconceptions relating to combustibility and surface spread of flame.
Stone wool insulation can help specifiers to meet the BCA’s “option 1” route to compliance with Approved Document B. It is also recommended by insurers
A key property of rock is that it doesn’t burn – in fact, it doesn’t even melt until it reaches temperatures in excess of 1,000˚C. This means that stone wool insulation products can be used to create a firewall that slows down the spread of fire from room to room, improving safety and reducing the risk of property and asset damage. It does not produce toxic smoke and therefore reduces the effects of smoke damage too.http://www.building.co.uk/cpd-6-2016-fi ... 26.article
Sadly there were probably dozens of undocumented people and people living unofficially in a block like that. Poor sods.
It seems the company who did the renovations went into administration shortly after completing the work.
It seems the company who did the renovations went into administration shortly after completing the work.
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Jesus, terrible.
I believe the fire department were there in 6 minutes, excellent response time.
I saw a guy jump out of a high-rise in Thailand to escape a fire, 18th floor or so to escape the flames, the fire department couldn't reach the building because the access road was too narrow, and helicopters couldn't help because of the turbulence createdby heat.
I threw up and turned away, I was upset for days afterwards, terrible thing to witness.
RIP, condolences to all involved.
I believe the fire department were there in 6 minutes, excellent response time.
I saw a guy jump out of a high-rise in Thailand to escape a fire, 18th floor or so to escape the flames, the fire department couldn't reach the building because the access road was too narrow, and helicopters couldn't help because of the turbulence createdby heat.
I threw up and turned away, I was upset for days afterwards, terrible thing to witness.
RIP, condolences to all involved.
ירי ילדים והפצצת אזרחים דורש אומץ, כמו גם הטרדה מינית של עובדי ההוראה.
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Tower blocks have always seemed dodgy to me *. Unless they have some well-maintained sprinkler system and other safety procedures in place they can easily become deathtraps. And we are talking about London here, which is rightly regarded as one of the more efficient cities as far as fire services go.
With all these condos going up around town, I look at the central Fire Station on street 360 with it's donated equipment and 30 meter ladders and think I wouldn't feel at all that confident about the response if I was in a block that was on fire here.
* I did actually live in one for a couple of years in the early 90s, and it was alright in many ways.
With all these condos going up around town, I look at the central Fire Station on street 360 with it's donated equipment and 30 meter ladders and think I wouldn't feel at all that confident about the response if I was in a block that was on fire here.
* I did actually live in one for a couple of years in the early 90s, and it was alright in many ways.
Last edited by Lucky Lucan on Wed Jun 14, 2017 9:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Romantic Cambodia is dead and gone. It's with McKinley in the grave.
By undeucumented do you mean refugees?RobW wrote:Sadly there were probably dozens of undocumented people and people living unofficially in a block like that. Poor sods.
It seems the company who did the renovations went into administration shortly after completing the work.
I'd say that's not the case in this instance as it's housing association accomodation. There's pretty strict processes in place in these sorts of places.
Unless it's changed since my time at White City, which is run by the same people.
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