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Re: Health Care Causes Finland Government Collapse

Posted: Wed Apr 17, 2019 3:19 pm
by Johnsell50
SlowJoe wrote:
Wed Apr 17, 2019 3:11 pm
Lucky Lucan wrote:
Wed Apr 17, 2019 3:07 pm
Johnsell50 wrote:
Tue Apr 16, 2019 6:17 pm
What I like the best is that this is the second country, first Venezuela now Denmark, that Bernie has touted as a beacon of socialism that has gone tits up.
What's happened in Denmark, and how can you compare it to Venezuela?
You compare the two by having a preconceived notion, knowing nothing about them, and then grabbing a sound bite from Fox news or something.
Very very simple, one is a failed socialist system the other is a failing socialist system. Same chicken, same eggs.

Re: Health Care Causes Finland Government Collapse

Posted: Wed Apr 17, 2019 3:23 pm
by logos
Johnsell50 wrote:
Wed Apr 17, 2019 3:05 pm
logos wrote:
Wed Apr 17, 2019 3:00 pm
Johnsell is a real trumpian, even when he's dead wrong he still believes he's right.

He will deflect the question not to admit something potentially embarrassing, like the fact that removing healthy foods from schools introduced by Obama is one of the worst dick moves by the trump administration.

And the lefters will deny the fact that America is doing so much better overall and their "Trumped" up witch hunt failed miserably and now the chickens are coming home to roost with the new investigation into the FISA warrant scam.
Sonic and I are talking school and you're deflecting again. Why are you obsessed with the Russian investigation? What's wrong with you? Don't you see how foolish you sound?

Re: Health Care Causes Finland Government Collapse

Posted: Wed Apr 17, 2019 3:26 pm
by Lucky Lucan
Very very simple, one is a failed socialist system the other is a failing socialist system. Same chicken, same eggs.
I can't find any references to Denmark collapsing in the news. Denmark isn't socialist. There seems to be some definition for socialism in the USA that I don’t recognize. I don’t really know what it is. Is it that any country that has higher tax rate than the USA is socialist? Or is it that any country that has more encompassing social security than the USA is socialist? Or is it that every country that has larger public services than the USA is socialist?

Re: Health Care Causes Finland Government Collapse

Posted: Wed Apr 17, 2019 3:40 pm
by Johnsell50
logos wrote:
Wed Apr 17, 2019 3:23 pm
Johnsell50 wrote:
Wed Apr 17, 2019 3:05 pm
logos wrote:
Wed Apr 17, 2019 3:00 pm
Johnsell is a real trumpian, even when he's dead wrong he still believes he's right.

He will deflect the question not to admit something potentially embarrassing, like the fact that removing healthy foods from schools introduced by Obama is one of the worst dick moves by the trump administration.

And the lefters will deny the fact that America is doing so much better overall and their "Trumped" up witch hunt failed miserably and now the chickens are coming home to roost with the new investigation into the FISA warrant scam.
Sonic and I are talking school and you're deflecting again. Why are you obsessed with the Russian investigation? What's wrong with you? Don't you see how foolish you sound?
The only thing foolish is picking on one thing out of so many and insisting I talk about that. LOL!

Re: Health Care Causes Finland Government Collapse

Posted: Wed Apr 17, 2019 4:02 pm
by SlowJoe
Lucky Lucan wrote:
Wed Apr 17, 2019 3:26 pm
Very very simple, one is a failed socialist system the other is a failing socialist system. Same chicken, same eggs.
I can't find any references to Denmark collapsing in the news. Denmark isn't socialist. There seems to be some definition for socialism in the USA that I don’t recognize. I don’t really know what it is. Is it that any country that has higher tax rate than the USA is socialist? Or is it that any country that has more encompassing social security than the USA is socialist? Or is it that every country that has larger public services than the USA is socialist?
I think it means "any country that has social services like healthcare under the control of the government in some way". But I also am not sure.

Re: Health Care Causes Finland Government Collapse

Posted: Wed Apr 17, 2019 6:15 pm
by Sonic1
Johnsell50 wrote:
Wed Apr 17, 2019 3:40 pm
logos wrote:
Wed Apr 17, 2019 3:23 pm
Johnsell50 wrote:
Wed Apr 17, 2019 3:05 pm
logos wrote:
Wed Apr 17, 2019 3:00 pm
Johnsell is a real trumpian, even when he's dead wrong he still believes he's right.

He will deflect the question not to admit something potentially embarrassing, like the fact that removing healthy foods from schools introduced by Obama is one of the worst dick moves by the trump administration.

And the lefters will deny the fact that America is doing so much better overall and their "Trumped" up witch hunt failed miserably and now the chickens are coming home to roost with the new investigation into the FISA warrant scam.
Sonic and I are talking school and you're deflecting again. Why are you obsessed with the Russian investigation? What's wrong with you? Don't you see how foolish you sound?
The only thing foolish is picking on one thing out of so many and insisting I talk about that. LOL!
You started this thread on healthcare. Do try to stay on topic.
For some children the only hot meal the get is at school. From NT Times. "“This is not just wrong; it’s illegal,” said Anne Harkavy, the executive director of Democracy Forward, which is representing the Center for Science in the Public Interest and Healthy School Food Maryland.

The Agriculture Department did not respond to a request for comment.

The Obama-era rules, completed in 2012, kick-started the administration’s campaign to fight childhood obesity, starting with students’ lunch trays. The rules required schools participating in the National School Lunch and Breakfast Programs to reduce the amount of sodium, serve foods rich in whole grains, increase the amount of fruits and vegetables, and limit saturated and trans fats. They also required that flavored milk be fat free.

In May 2017, on his first week on the job, Mr. Perdue announced he would roll back the rules, quipping, “I wouldn’t be as big as I am today without chocolate milk.” Mr. Perdue . https://www.nytimes.com/2019/04/03/us/p ... dards.html

Re: Health Care Causes Finland Government Collapse

Posted: Wed Apr 17, 2019 6:45 pm
by springrain
Lucky Lucan wrote:
Wed Apr 17, 2019 3:26 pm
Very very simple, one is a failed socialist system the other is a failing socialist system. Same chicken, same eggs.
I can't find any references to Denmark collapsing in the news. Denmark isn't socialist. There seems to be some definition for socialism in the USA that I don’t recognize. I don’t really know what it is. Is it that any country that has higher tax rate than the USA is socialist? Or is it that any country that has more encompassing social security than the USA is socialist? Or is it that every country that has larger public services than the USA is socialist?
Exactly. (Most) Americans simply do not understand what Socialism is; oh, they might look it up in Miriam Webster or some such, but they really don't know. The same is true of 'Communism'. One can find many 'definitions' of these '-isms' but they are usually founded on preconceived ideas of what (in their minds) ought to - or ought not - to be.

(Aimed at Johnsell50): what are you talking about? Venezuela has only gone 'tits up' due to elite forces manipulating her economy and attempts at genuine socialist government. It's nothing to do with who has to pay the bill because, under elite-structured World Government, the ordinary folk ALWAYS have to foot the bill, while the fat-cat-manipulators reap the profits.

This system stretches way back beyond the Normans (Vikings, of course) Caesars, The Pharaohs...
It has worked for their benefit for a very long time.
Their benefit and their benefit only.
Anyone who believes this is the 'natural system' of government' or that it benefits all strata of society is, frankly, deluded.

Re: Health Care Causes Finland Government Collapse

Posted: Wed Apr 17, 2019 7:01 pm
by Johnsell50
anyone who believes socialism is a wonderful form of government is sadly deluded. The fat cat "Manipulators as you call them pay 70% of the taxes in America, the middle class pay 27% more. 50% of the people in America pay 98% of the taxes. I understand socialism very well. It is not brain surgery and no, I am not going to sit here and explain it to you. In a perfect world, where every able body was willing to contribute it would work very well except for the fact that it really does not reward excellence in any form or someone willing to work harder than their neighbor to get ahead.

Re: Health Care Causes Finland Government Collapse

Posted: Wed Apr 17, 2019 7:13 pm
by Hot_Pink_Urinal_Mint
^^John, how many times do you have to be told that Socialism is an economic theory - a centrally planned economy. not a form of government.

Bernie (although he doesn't know it) is a social democrat - some social welfare services as a safety net but still democratic values and a "market economy."

Re: Health Care Causes Finland Government Collapse

Posted: Wed Apr 17, 2019 7:19 pm
by Johnsell50
...

Re: Health Care Causes Finland Government Collapse

Posted: Wed Apr 17, 2019 8:31 pm
by Harold
Johnsell50 wrote:
Wed Apr 17, 2019 3:19 pm
SlowJoe wrote:
Wed Apr 17, 2019 3:11 pm
Lucky Lucan wrote:
Wed Apr 17, 2019 3:07 pm
Johnsell50 wrote:
Tue Apr 16, 2019 6:17 pm
What I like the best is that this is the second country, first Venezuela now Denmark, that Bernie has touted as a beacon of socialism that has gone tits up.
What's happened in Denmark, and how can you compare it to Venezuela?
You compare the two by having a preconceived notion, knowing nothing about them, and then grabbing a sound bite from Fox news or something.
Very very simple, one is a failed socialist system the other is a failing socialist system. Same chicken, same eggs.
The Prime Minister of Denmark had this to say, "I know that some people in the US associate the Nordic model with some sort of socialism. Therefore I would like to make one thing clear. Denmark is far from a socialist planned economy. Denmark is a market economy.” “The Nordic model is an expanded welfare state which provides a high level of security for its citizens, but it is also a successful market economy with much freedom to pursue your dreams and live your life as you wish,”
https://www.thelocal.dk/20151101/danish ... -socialist

However, it could be argued that the Scandinavian countries were aspirationally Socialist in the 50s and 60s. Their society was far healthier back then because the oligarchs had not yet decided to import hordes of Muslims from the Balkans, North Africa, and the Middle East. However, there were definitely many economic shortcomings that liberalization has seemingly corrected.
What you seem to be opposed to is nanny-stateism.

I am personally not opposed to a nanny state but it of course can only work if there is an ethically authoritarian regime calling the shots. An ethically authoritarian regime would promote a positive birthrate and would also have strong borders. The regimes in the Scandinavian countries are currently authoritarian but they are not ethical. A person can be imprisoned in any of the Scandinavian countries for not adequately venerating the Muslims or for having a conscience and an audaciousness to speak the truth about Allah's darling prophet.

Re: Health Care Causes Finland Government Collapse

Posted: Wed Apr 17, 2019 11:21 pm
by Lucky Lucan
It's a free market economy, this Johnsell doesn't know what the fuck he is talking about.
Quora wrote:In the ease of doing business Denmark (3rd) beats the USA (6th). Norway (8), Sweden (10), and Finland (13) are slightly behind. Iceland is more behind (23rd), but all of them rank on the top of the index. Ease of doing business index - Wikipedia

In the economic freedom index Iceland (11th), Sweden (12th) and Denmark (15th) rank higher than the USA (18th). Norway (23rd) and Finland (26th) come a little after, but they all rank in the top 20–30 in the world. Index of Economic Freedom - Wikipedia

In the Press freedom index, all the Nordic countries are in the top10, the USA is 43rd. 2017 World Press Freedom Index | RSF

In general freedom index the Nordic countries are freer than the USA: Freedom in the World 2017

The only index where the USA is “more free” is the average tax level: all the Nordic countries have this higher. But I think that we all know by now that there is a large support in the Nordic countries to this due to the benefits we get in the form of tax funded health care, education and such. Is this the definition of socialism in the USA?
Germany has second biggest tax burden worldwide, report shows (a table for average tax rate)

Re: Health Care Causes Finland Government Collapse

Posted: Thu Apr 18, 2019 3:11 am
by Sonic1
" According to a series of government reports released Thursday, 70,237 people died of drug overdoses in 2017 — an increase from the 63,632 overdose deaths the U.S. saw in 2016 and setting another record high — while the nation’s suicide rate increased by 3.7 percent. According to government estimates, those deaths, often called “deaths of despair,” helped push the U.S. life expectancy to 78.6 years, a decrease of one-tenth of a year from 2016 and a whopping three-tenths of a year since 2014. Mortality rates worsened most for middle-aged black men, and white men and women. The country is now in the longest period of declining life expectancy since 1918, when World War I and a devastating flu pandemic drove life expectancy to 39 years old, according to ABC News.

Life expectancy is often used as a measure for a country’s overall health and economic status. In Canada, for example, life expectancy is 79.8 years. The rates are even higher in Japan, Norway and Australia, according to data kept by the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development. That’s because advances in science and health technology have allowed nations, including the U.S., to slowly chip away at rates of leading killers like cancer and heart disease, which declined and leveled off, respectively, in 2017. Yet those breakthroughs are being offset by preventable deaths relating to addiction and mental illness. " From vice news https://news.vice.com/en_us/article/a3m ... -heres-why

Re: Health Care Causes Finland Government Collapse

Posted: Thu Apr 18, 2019 7:44 am
by SlowJoe
I know this might sound brash, but I don't trust in statistics too much anymore. There's no way you can convince me that Americans are in any way just 1 year behind in life expectancy than the Danish. If they somehow are through the magic of number bending, then those years are severely diminished in quality.

Just look at Americans, and then look at the Danish, it's a night and day difference who is healthier.

Re: Health Care Causes Finland Government Collapse

Posted: Thu Apr 18, 2019 8:06 am
by newnewnewbie
That is so amusing regarding places like Denmark, cause the population there are very heavy drinkers and smokers. In environmentally clean little Denmark, if you look closely around public places, they are littered with disgusting cigarette buds on the ground,

And as for the social liberal 'flexicurity' model.. as it is officially named, it is under severe pressure, and is projected to falter from an aging population, and so be unable to finance itself in the late 2030's

So now they are raising the retirement age to almost 80 years old. And as the Muslims grow in numbers due to having far more kids than the locals, as well as being unemployed and uneducated, it's a recipe for disaster, as in the rest of Europe, it might just turn into wholly muslim nations in a few decades.

Just a few days ago there was war like scenarios in Copenhagen from muslim anger raised by a far right winger who was being disrespectful towards the Quran in public, to challenge the right to freedom of speech. And so the police was robbed their Easter vacation, instead being targeted by cobblestones and molotov cocktails by a sizeable and very autonomous group of lowlifes.