Argue in circles about British politics thread
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- OneTrickPony
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As the Socialist Party has consistently argued, the working-class vote for Brexit was a cry of rage against everything they had suffered in a decade of austerity. Had Corbyn, as we did, taken a different position in the EU referendum the right-wing Tory nationalists would not have had the space to dominate the Brexit campaign in the way they did.
He should have argued in 2016 for a vote for Brexit on the grounds of opposing the EU bosses' club - with its pro-privatisation and anti-working class laws, standing instead for a new collaboration of the peoples of Europe on a socialist basis.
Even after this mistake, the 2017 snap election showed how promising to respect the EU referendum, and negotiate a Brexit in workers' interests, could win working-class Brexit voters. More than a million people who had previously voted Ukip voted Labour in that election.
This time, however, Corbyn's neutrality, combined with months of seeming to collaborate in parliament with pro-capitalist Remainers - Jo Swinson, Ken Clarke, and co - allowed Johnson to claim he was the only candidate who could "get Brexit done".
A considerable number of Brexit-voting workers and some Remain voters who were fed up of the Brexit paralysis and just wanted it 'sorted', lent their vote to Johnson, often holding their noses to do so. They will be sorely disappointed.
The capitalist class, the majority of whom want to remain as closely aligned to the EU as possible, are hoping against hope that - having won a clear majority - Johnson can now be pressured into negotiating a final deal in their interests.
There are more than 130 Remain Tory backbenchers who can fight for that position. Johnson may do what they want, which will almost certainly mean extending the transition period beyond the end of next year. That would reopen the splits in the Tory party, and shatter the lie that Johnson will 'get Brexit done'.
However Johnson plays it, his Brexit deal is a vicious pro-big business deal which further undermines workers' rights. Against the background of growing economic crisis, any illusions that Johnson stands 'for the people' will be destroyed by the government's actions.
In the coming turmoil there will be a burning need for a political vehicle to represent the working class: a mass workers' party. Labour under Corbyn hasn't become such a party, rather it was at best 'two parties in one': a potential workers' party around Corbyn and a capitalist Blairite party. Corbyn supporters have to urgently learn the lessons of this defeat.
It was not only on Brexit that concessions to the Blairites undermined Corbyn's message. During this election campaign there was a policy of not attacking the record of previous Labour governments. This allowed, for example, Johnson to claim Labour were responsible for much of the privatisation in the NHS. Corbyn - instead of attacking the Blairites' record on PFI and pointing out he voted against it - allowed himself to be dirtied by New Labour's record.
Across the country, Labour councils under Corbyn have continued implementing austerity, on the spurious grounds that they have 'no choice'. After 40 years of governments - Tory and New Labour - defending the interests of the capitalist elite, the majority are bound to be cynical about claims of being anti-austerity.
Unite union library workers on strike in Bradford, photo Iain Dalton
Unite union library workers on strike in Bradford, photo Iain Dalton (Click to enlarge)
If even one or two Labour councils, supported by Corbyn and McDonnell, had refused to carry out cuts to jobs and public services and started mass council house building, it would have done more to convince workers of Labour's anti-austerity credentials than a thousand warm words.
Instead, in the West Midlands alone, 20,000 local government workers were made redundant over the last decade, mainly by Labour councils.
He should have argued in 2016 for a vote for Brexit on the grounds of opposing the EU bosses' club - with its pro-privatisation and anti-working class laws, standing instead for a new collaboration of the peoples of Europe on a socialist basis.
Even after this mistake, the 2017 snap election showed how promising to respect the EU referendum, and negotiate a Brexit in workers' interests, could win working-class Brexit voters. More than a million people who had previously voted Ukip voted Labour in that election.
This time, however, Corbyn's neutrality, combined with months of seeming to collaborate in parliament with pro-capitalist Remainers - Jo Swinson, Ken Clarke, and co - allowed Johnson to claim he was the only candidate who could "get Brexit done".
A considerable number of Brexit-voting workers and some Remain voters who were fed up of the Brexit paralysis and just wanted it 'sorted', lent their vote to Johnson, often holding their noses to do so. They will be sorely disappointed.
The capitalist class, the majority of whom want to remain as closely aligned to the EU as possible, are hoping against hope that - having won a clear majority - Johnson can now be pressured into negotiating a final deal in their interests.
There are more than 130 Remain Tory backbenchers who can fight for that position. Johnson may do what they want, which will almost certainly mean extending the transition period beyond the end of next year. That would reopen the splits in the Tory party, and shatter the lie that Johnson will 'get Brexit done'.
However Johnson plays it, his Brexit deal is a vicious pro-big business deal which further undermines workers' rights. Against the background of growing economic crisis, any illusions that Johnson stands 'for the people' will be destroyed by the government's actions.
In the coming turmoil there will be a burning need for a political vehicle to represent the working class: a mass workers' party. Labour under Corbyn hasn't become such a party, rather it was at best 'two parties in one': a potential workers' party around Corbyn and a capitalist Blairite party. Corbyn supporters have to urgently learn the lessons of this defeat.
It was not only on Brexit that concessions to the Blairites undermined Corbyn's message. During this election campaign there was a policy of not attacking the record of previous Labour governments. This allowed, for example, Johnson to claim Labour were responsible for much of the privatisation in the NHS. Corbyn - instead of attacking the Blairites' record on PFI and pointing out he voted against it - allowed himself to be dirtied by New Labour's record.
Across the country, Labour councils under Corbyn have continued implementing austerity, on the spurious grounds that they have 'no choice'. After 40 years of governments - Tory and New Labour - defending the interests of the capitalist elite, the majority are bound to be cynical about claims of being anti-austerity.
Unite union library workers on strike in Bradford, photo Iain Dalton
Unite union library workers on strike in Bradford, photo Iain Dalton (Click to enlarge)
If even one or two Labour councils, supported by Corbyn and McDonnell, had refused to carry out cuts to jobs and public services and started mass council house building, it would have done more to convince workers of Labour's anti-austerity credentials than a thousand warm words.
Instead, in the West Midlands alone, 20,000 local government workers were made redundant over the last decade, mainly by Labour councils.
Up the workers!
^^ Googke tells me this is your citation;
: https://www.socialistparty.org.uk/artic ... ry-attacks
It's no good saying they didn't teach you not including references is called plagiarism at state school because Dallow Spicer knows how to do it.
: https://www.socialistparty.org.uk/artic ... ry-attacks
It's no good saying they didn't teach you not including references is called plagiarism at state school because Dallow Spicer knows how to do it.
Since there's no argue in circles about Trump thread this seems a good place to announce I just bought myself a Trump 2020 hat for 2 quid on eBay.
Go Don.
Go Don.
- Petrol Head
- Grand Poobah
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Pretty safe bet - Trump should romp it home.
A shame because I do fancy a bit of Ocasio-Cortez. Latins with crazy eyes and all that.
Haha - my money’s on Playboy
- Steve Zodiac
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Weeping tears straight from the face Bono. If you don't like the result of a democratic vote why not just f**k of & live in Russia instead of whining?
- batshitcrazyweirdo
- Batshit Crazy Weirdo
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I love bitches n gonna fuck Texas and the USA+ right up their god damn ass! Hallelujah!
Somebody was mentioning Viz?
Paul Golding, the leader of the far-right group Britain First, said that he has attempted to join the Conservative party, to show his support for comments that Boris Johnson has previously made about Islam.
Golding told the Press Association that he liked the “cut of the cloth” of Johnson when the prime minister described women wearing the burqa as resembling “letterboxes” in a column in the Daily Telegraph.
Golding, who has been convicted and imprisoned for religiously aggravated harassment and is a former British National Party councillor, said: “Primarily, we had the experience of Momentum joining the Labour party en masse to consolidate the leadership position of Jeremy Corbyn.
“We have decided to do the same but in reverse. We are all joining to see if we can consolidate Boris’s leadership over the Tory party. He is getting Brexit done but, as well as that, he has made a lot of comments in the past referring to burqa and niqab-wearing women as ‘letterboxes’.
“After the London Bridge attack, he said he wanted to crack down on the early release of terrorist prisoners. We like the cut of the cloth on Boris Johnson.”
Golding added: “He is more of a populist leader and I think in recent weeks he has nailed his colours to the mast against immigration and being for Brexit.”
Golding shared a screenshot of an email from the Tories following his application which was electronically signed by Tory chairmen and MPs James Cleverly and Ben Elliot, welcoming him to the party at 2pm on Thursday.
It reads: “Your membership is now activated. You can now attend party events both locally and nationally. Your membership card will be sent out shortly.”
However a Tory spokeswoman said today: “Paul Golding’s application for membership of the Conservative party has not been approved.
“While we welcome new members from a wide variety of backgrounds, we are vigilant against those seeking to join the party who do not share our aims. There is a process in place for local Conservative associations to approve members who apply to join, or to reject those who do not share the party’s values or objects.
“We support local associations with this work to ensure they can and do take action where needed.”
Idi Admin
Paul Golding, the leader of the far-right group Britain First, said that he has attempted to join the Conservative party, to show his support for comments that Boris Johnson has previously made about Islam.
Golding told the Press Association that he liked the “cut of the cloth” of Johnson when the prime minister described women wearing the burqa as resembling “letterboxes” in a column in the Daily Telegraph.
Golding, who has been convicted and imprisoned for religiously aggravated harassment and is a former British National Party councillor, said: “Primarily, we had the experience of Momentum joining the Labour party en masse to consolidate the leadership position of Jeremy Corbyn.
“We have decided to do the same but in reverse. We are all joining to see if we can consolidate Boris’s leadership over the Tory party. He is getting Brexit done but, as well as that, he has made a lot of comments in the past referring to burqa and niqab-wearing women as ‘letterboxes’.
“After the London Bridge attack, he said he wanted to crack down on the early release of terrorist prisoners. We like the cut of the cloth on Boris Johnson.”
Golding added: “He is more of a populist leader and I think in recent weeks he has nailed his colours to the mast against immigration and being for Brexit.”
Golding shared a screenshot of an email from the Tories following his application which was electronically signed by Tory chairmen and MPs James Cleverly and Ben Elliot, welcoming him to the party at 2pm on Thursday.
It reads: “Your membership is now activated. You can now attend party events both locally and nationally. Your membership card will be sent out shortly.”
However a Tory spokeswoman said today: “Paul Golding’s application for membership of the Conservative party has not been approved.
“While we welcome new members from a wide variety of backgrounds, we are vigilant against those seeking to join the party who do not share our aims. There is a process in place for local Conservative associations to approve members who apply to join, or to reject those who do not share the party’s values or objects.
“We support local associations with this work to ensure they can and do take action where needed.”
Idi Admin
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- OneTrickPony
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Back after being thrown out of the right-wing senate by Idi Admin for trying to impeach Slavedog on two counts;
Overuse of hackneyed right-wing excuses.
Refusing to acknowledge the effect austerity is having on children- eventhough 1 in 4 children in the UK are currently living in poverty- preferring to use personal attacks to try and avoid my satirical attempt to shine a light on his issues.
Overuse of hackneyed right-wing excuses.
Refusing to acknowledge the effect austerity is having on children- eventhough 1 in 4 children in the UK are currently living in poverty- preferring to use personal attacks to try and avoid my satirical attempt to shine a light on his issues.
Last edited by kungfufighter on Sat Dec 21, 2019 12:26 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Up the workers!
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- OneTrickPony
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Dream on. It takes a little time for the shock to wear off. Next stage: visceral anger.Steve Zodiac wrote: ↑Fri Dec 20, 2019 3:53 amWeeping tears straight from the face Bono. If you don't like the result of a democratic vote why not just f**k of & live in Russia instead of whining?
There will be blood on the streets.
London: Election night.
It will take 50,000 nurses to treat the 20,000 police that have had 40 police stations burnt to the ground.
If you don't trust me, listen to his brother:
Up the workers!
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- OneTrickPony
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As you all know already,
the TV media pick up on whatever the papers of the day are saying:
amplifying it and distributing it to a far wider audience. It wasn't just the Conservative posters vilifying Corbyn as a virtual pedophile - someone who couldn't be trusted with your children, that contributed to the character assassination of a decent man.
Press Coverage: Print and Online News
Research has shown that many voters only start paying attention in the last days of an election, so the final rush of Brexit coverage would have been consequential,” researchers at Loughborough University said.
While the Conservatives had the edge in press coverage in 2017, the researchers found that the media landscape was much closer at the previous election: the Conservatives had a balance of minus 0.09 to Labour’s minus 0.13 in the balance of positive and negative stories – meaning Labour was only somewhat more negatively portrayed.
In 2019, however, the Conservatives’ balance was negative 0.04, while Labour’s was negative 0.30, far less positive.
Because the largest newspapers were more friendly to the Conservatives, when weighted by circulation, the final week of the 2019 election gave the Tories a positive score of 30.17 while Labour’s was minus 96.66 – a vast gulf in treatment.
The media
Approximately 5,753,142 right leaning readers per day read the Mail, Metro, Sun, Telegraph, Times, Standard, i, Express, and FT - which during the election were pro Johnson/ Conservative - anti Corbyn/ Labour.
compared to
Approximately 1,240,007 Guardian (often neutral; sometimes anti Corbyn; rarely pro) and Mirror pro Labour readers.
13,966,565 voted Conservative.
10,295,607 voted Labour.
Looks like Corbyn did really well considering.
Without the Tory instigated and Johnson run campaign for Brexit, Labour under Corbyn would have romped home.
The last thing Labour should do is get rid of Corbyn. They should expell each and every right-wing Blairite from the party, immediately.
Those that accuse the Left of empty rhetoric when describing many Conservative voting leavers as racists, should note the use of racism by Johnson and his Brexiters to obtain increased support.
the TV media pick up on whatever the papers of the day are saying:
amplifying it and distributing it to a far wider audience. It wasn't just the Conservative posters vilifying Corbyn as a virtual pedophile - someone who couldn't be trusted with your children, that contributed to the character assassination of a decent man.
Press Coverage: Print and Online News
Research has shown that many voters only start paying attention in the last days of an election, so the final rush of Brexit coverage would have been consequential,” researchers at Loughborough University said.
While the Conservatives had the edge in press coverage in 2017, the researchers found that the media landscape was much closer at the previous election: the Conservatives had a balance of minus 0.09 to Labour’s minus 0.13 in the balance of positive and negative stories – meaning Labour was only somewhat more negatively portrayed.
In 2019, however, the Conservatives’ balance was negative 0.04, while Labour’s was negative 0.30, far less positive.
Because the largest newspapers were more friendly to the Conservatives, when weighted by circulation, the final week of the 2019 election gave the Tories a positive score of 30.17 while Labour’s was minus 96.66 – a vast gulf in treatment.
The media
Approximately 5,753,142 right leaning readers per day read the Mail, Metro, Sun, Telegraph, Times, Standard, i, Express, and FT - which during the election were pro Johnson/ Conservative - anti Corbyn/ Labour.
compared to
Approximately 1,240,007 Guardian (often neutral; sometimes anti Corbyn; rarely pro) and Mirror pro Labour readers.
13,966,565 voted Conservative.
10,295,607 voted Labour.
Looks like Corbyn did really well considering.
Without the Tory instigated and Johnson run campaign for Brexit, Labour under Corbyn would have romped home.
The last thing Labour should do is get rid of Corbyn. They should expell each and every right-wing Blairite from the party, immediately.
Those that accuse the Left of empty rhetoric when describing many Conservative voting leavers as racists, should note the use of racism by Johnson and his Brexiters to obtain increased support.
Last edited by kungfufighter on Mon Dec 23, 2019 7:57 am, edited 6 times in total.
Up the workers!
- Hot_Pink_Urinal_Mint
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He should've purged them on day 1 but he was too weak. Let's be honest, he's going to have to offer to be circumcized on live TV if he wants to be PM.kungfufighter wrote: ↑Sun Dec 22, 2019 1:07 pm
The last thing Labour should do is get rid of Corbyn. They should expell each and every right-wing Blairite from the party, immediately.
Wot, like this polling day tweet and image from the Conservatives. (Can't post the whole tweet only the image that accompanied it.)Those that accuse the Left of empty rhetoric when describing many Conservative voting leavers as racists, should note the use of racism by Johnson and his Brexiters to obtain increased support.
It's Polling Day, and on Polling Day you #VoteConservativeActually 🗳
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