Huge explosion in Beirut
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1. Some people link the explosions in Iran to Israel because they believe that Israel is trying to provoke Iran into attacking them, thereby starting a war which the US would almost certainly be dragged into. Some people speculate that Israel wants to start a war while Trump is still president and they believe Trump will lose this November.Guest wrote: ↑Wed Aug 05, 2020 8:22 pmHarold wrote: ↑Wed Aug 05, 2020 7:58 pmI would not be surprised if the Israelis were behind it considering the recent headlines about unexplained explosions going off in Iran.
There are lots of capable people in Lebanon and one would imagine that they would take precautions. On the other hand, there are lots of Lebanese idiots who do stupid stuff like firing their AKs into the air during parades. These are the kind of people who would store ammonium nitrate next to fireworks in a crowded city.
First contradiction: of the explosions in Iran are unexplained, why link them to Israel?
Second: there are smart people in Lebanon. But there are dumb people in Lebanon.
Third: you wouldn’t be surprised if it’s Israel and you wouldn’t be surprised if it’s dumb Lebanese who got smarter than the silver Lebanese who would never let this happen, except when they let it happen
The same kind of people speculate that Iran wants to wait and see what happens in November because they also expect Trump to lose and they don't want a conflict or a war when they are likely to be dealing with Biden next January.
The Iranian government has been secretive and evasive when asked to comment about these incidents. This is why I described the explosions as "unexplained."
See the New York Times article, "Long-Planned and Bigger Than Thought: Strike on Iran's Nuclear Program:"
Some officials say that a joint American-Israeli strategy is evolving - some might argue regressing - to a series of short-of-war clandestine strikes.
The articles continues:
"As Iran's center for advanced nuclear centrifuges lies in charred ruins after an explosion, apparently engineered by Israel, the long-simmering conflict between the United States and Tehran appears to be escalating into a potentially dangerous phase likely to play out during the American presidential election campaign."
There was also an explosion nearby at the Parchin military base, a leakage of chlorine gas at a Iranian petrochemical plant, and a fire at an Iranian power station and a few other incidents.
2: There are smart people and dumb people in every country. The situation in Lebanon, however, is extreme. Considering the huge number of Lebanese geniuses and their amazing contributions to science, technology, and culture, one would think that the government of Lebanon could find people who would be competent enough to know not to store ammonium nitrate next to fireworks in a populated area. Unfortunately for Lebanon, there are many idiots in the country and some of these idiots are working for the Port Authority.
3.
you wouldn’t be surprised if it’s Israel and you wouldn’t be surprised if it’s dumb Lebanese
I am weighing the possibilities. Maybe the Israelis are behind it. Maybe it happened because of incompetence. Both are possible and neither would surprise me.
"if it's dumb lebanese who got smarter than the silver Lebanese who would never let this happen, except when they let it happen."
I don't even know what this means.
Fascinating stuff Harold. Now to help us understand further, what does some people thinking nonsense about Israel and Iran have to do with an explosion is Beirut, an explosion which is increasingly looking like it was a tragic and avoidable industrial accident?
Read between the lines.
No matter what was in what wharehouse, that is, without a doubt, military ordnance going off. Doesn't mean it's a nuke either.
No matter what was in what wharehouse, that is, without a doubt, military ordnance going off. Doesn't mean it's a nuke either.
It was publicly known that huge amounts of ammonium nitrate were stored in the port. Beirut received several warnings about it since 2014. Public warnings.
What a coincidence that it would just randomly explode like that. What was it again, welding work? I'm not convinced.
What a coincidence that it would just randomly explode like that. What was it again, welding work? I'm not convinced.
Years before a devastating blast killed at least 100 people and injured more than 4,000 in Beirut Tuesday, a maritime analyst issued a public warning that a Russian “floating bomb” was languishing in the city’s docks.
https://www.thedailybeast.com/beirut-ig ... t-the-portMikhail Voytenko, a Russian maritime analyst based in Thailand, warned in July 2014 that the ship, which he said was owned by a Russian operator, was effectively a “floating bomb.”
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... icals.htmlThe country's political leaders vowed those responsible for the tragedy would 'pay the price', but customs officials pointed the finger of blame back at them - saying they were repeatedly warned of the danger but failed to act.
Mikhail Voytenko in 2014 about the vessel and its dangerous load:
I don’t believe that an abandoned vessel publicly known as loaded with explosives was left unattended and readily available for accidental detonation by a welder. That explanation is an insult to the Lebanese intelligence agencies. I just cannot believe that they would be so stupid that something like this would be allowed to happen by random accident.
https://www.fleetmon.com/maritime-news/ ... us-beirut/RHOSUS actually, is abandoned – owner doesn’t communicate, doesn’t pay salaries, doesn’t provide supplies. Owner of the cargo declared abandonment, too. Beirut authorities don’t permit the remaining crew to leave the vessel and fly to home. The reason is obvious, port authorities don’t want to be left with abandoned vessel on their hands, loaded with dangerous cargo, explosives, in fact. Why don’t they want to arrest vessel with cargo, to release the crew and replace it with temporary local crew, is unclear.
I don’t believe that an abandoned vessel publicly known as loaded with explosives was left unattended and readily available for accidental detonation by a welder. That explanation is an insult to the Lebanese intelligence agencies. I just cannot believe that they would be so stupid that something like this would be allowed to happen by random accident.
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The Daily Beast article you linked to says it was removed from the vessel and stored in a dockside warehouse:Alexandra wrote: ↑Wed Aug 05, 2020 11:33 pm
I don’t believe that an abandoned vessel publicly known as loaded with explosives was left unattended and readily available for accidental detonation by a welder. That explanation is an insult to the Lebanese intelligence agencies. I just cannot believe that they would be so stupid that something like this would be allowed to happen by random accident.
The Russian-owned cargo ship called into port in Beirut for reasons unknown, possibly after running into trouble at sea en route from Georgia to Mozambique. Beirut authorities blocked it from leaving and the dangerous cargo was offloaded and stored in Hanger 12 in the port a year later, according to the maritime monitoring website Fleetmon.
Romantic Cambodia is dead and gone. It's with McKinley in the grave.
Yes, so since 2014 when the Fleetmon article was written by Mikhail it was kept there. I can only assume it was unguarded if a welder accidentally set it off.Lucky Lucan wrote: ↑Wed Aug 05, 2020 11:47 pmThe Daily Beast article you linked to says it was removed from the vessel and stored in a dockside warehouse:
Anybody that wanted to attack Beirut would have found the information about large amounts of ammonium nitrate stored in Hanger 12 in the port.
I understand that it is easy to know everything about it with the facts at hand 6 years later, but surely a military adversary would find a 2014 dated article easily.
They wouldn’t need to bribe or corrupt anybody or conduct espionage to retrieve the information. Even a small unfunded adversary could find it from Google.
This is a giant failure regardless of what happened.
I would bet my life that, that explosion is A result of "Classified" Israeli Ops.
Some of you might prefer to take your news at essentially face value, "fifty" parties removed that we typically all are, video or not.
Military grade bombs have a distinct "symmetry" and "intensity" that "accidents" do not. It is not unreasonable to accept that a bomb found it's way into a fertilizer or fireworks warehouse in "the middle east".
If you prefer to conclude that it was an "accident" in a very "hot" region and/or that oppositional viewpoints are "conspiracy theories", or journalism is reputably truthful all around these days and/or any government would be fully honest with journalists or the public at large and/or you have minimal understanding of human nature?--up to you.
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Some of you might prefer to take your news at essentially face value, "fifty" parties removed that we typically all are, video or not.
Military grade bombs have a distinct "symmetry" and "intensity" that "accidents" do not. It is not unreasonable to accept that a bomb found it's way into a fertilizer or fireworks warehouse in "the middle east".
If you prefer to conclude that it was an "accident" in a very "hot" region and/or that oppositional viewpoints are "conspiracy theories", or journalism is reputably truthful all around these days and/or any government would be fully honest with journalists or the public at large and/or you have minimal understanding of human nature?--up to you.
Yes I am a Veteran.
Which part is nonsense? The notion that Israel is behind at least some of the mysterious explosions in Iran or the notion that Israel is behind the explosions in Iran with the intent of provoking Iran into attacking Israel?Guest wrote: ↑Wed Aug 05, 2020 10:53 pmFascinating stuff Harold. Now to help us understand further, what does some people thinking nonsense about Israel and Iran have to do with an explosion is Beirut, an explosion which is increasingly looking like it was a tragic and avoidable industrial accident?
Most journalists believe that Israel is behind the Natanz incident and the incident at the Parchin military base.
As for why the Israelis might carry out an attack on Lebanon:
Lebanon has an adversarial relationship with Israel. Israel invaded and occupied southern Lebanon in the 1980s and they maintained limited control over parts of southern Lebanon throughout the 1990s. In 2006 the Israelis once again invaded Lebanese territory after some Israeli border towns came under fire from Hezbollah and the kidnapping of a few IDF soldiers by Hezbollah. During the war, the Iranians provided military and logistical support to Hezbollah and they continue to provide support to this day.
The Israelis, and certain factions in the Zionist movement before the establishment of Israel, have a history of carrying out terrorist attacks with the use of explosives:
-The Haganah bombed the SS Patria in 1940 killing more than 200 people.
-The Irgun,, a radical Zionist group, bombed the King David Hotel in 1946 killing more than 90 people.
-In 1954, Israel recruited a group of Egyptian Jews to plant bombs in American and British run schools and cinemas. The plan failed and was uncovered and the Israeli defense minister was forced to step down.
- The Israelis nearly shot down a civilian plane flying from Athens to Cairo in 1982. They believed the plane was carrying Arafat and his entourage. The pilot who was pursuing the plane disobeyed orders from Sharon and the Mossad. Ronen Bergman wrote a gripping account of this incident in his book "Rise and Kill First."
This is what I can think of off the top of my head. I could dig up more examples if you want.
Obviously, if they have been carrying out a bombing campaign against their adversaries in Iran, they are willing to do the same thing against their adversaries in Lebanon.
Why do you say that the explosion in Beirut is 'increasingly looking like a tragic and avoidable industrial accident"?
It is possible and even probable that it was a tragic and avoidable accident. I don't know what motive the Israelis might have to carry out such an attack because I don't know all of the facts of the situation. But I don't understand why you seem to think that Israel couldn't possibly be behind it.
If you don’t know what motive the Israelis might have to conduct such an operation, then the logical extension of that lack of knowledge of motives must surely similarly apply to the Cambodian secret service, or the Bhutan government, or the Dutch East Antilles.
And yet you started this all by saying you wouldn’t be surprised if it was the Israelis.
Which begs the question - why?
Especially when you now concede it’s probable that it’s a simple accident.
And yet you started this all by saying you wouldn’t be surprised if it was the Israelis.
Which begs the question - why?
Especially when you now concede it’s probable that it’s a simple accident.
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