Covid19. Who got it right, Sweden or Spain?
- horace
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Covid19. Who got it right, Sweden or Spain?
Six months in, and as I was swinging in my hammock pleasantly stuffed on tapas , beer n puff being gently cooled by Sierra Nevada breeze, I wondered about this.
In Spain, we are definitely going through a second wave albeit seemingly milder than the first but enough to start a new new normal. Restrictions have come in again on bars, nightclubs and restaurants, smoking has also been banned in all public places or is about to be. Spain had one of the toughest lockdowns but it worked until they unlocked and the Spaniards went back to the old normal very quick , hugging n kissing, gathering for big meet ups n parties in campsites, restaurants, etc.
Sweden no lockdown at all ! Just people being expected to act responsible.
Alexandra !?
In Spain, we are definitely going through a second wave albeit seemingly milder than the first but enough to start a new new normal. Restrictions have come in again on bars, nightclubs and restaurants, smoking has also been banned in all public places or is about to be. Spain had one of the toughest lockdowns but it worked until they unlocked and the Spaniards went back to the old normal very quick , hugging n kissing, gathering for big meet ups n parties in campsites, restaurants, etc.
Sweden no lockdown at all ! Just people being expected to act responsible.
Alexandra !?
k440, something to do when you're pissed.
It depends if you value human life more than the economy or not. I think that the big elephant in the room that everybody is forgetting is that Sweden accepted the highest number of refugees very recently and it’s welfare system took a big hit as a result. Sweden’s economy is not in a position to lock everything down.
Spain could afford a lockdown, Sweden could not. It is not about choice. It is great that more people didn’t die in Sweden but it’s not thanks to the actions of its leaders. They had no idea what type of risk they were taking.
Not doing anything is not a strategy. Neighboring Norway has around 9,900 confirmed cases and 261 dead. In Sweden there are 85,000 confirmed cases and 5,800 dead.
If a vaccine or cure is discovered then thousands of Swedish people died for nothing while they may still be saved in Norway.
Not having a lockdown hasn’t saved Sweden’s economy. They are reporting 10% unemployment rates, companies are going out of business and as any other actor on the global Covid-19 struck economy, they are suffering.
Spain could afford a lockdown, Sweden could not. It is not about choice. It is great that more people didn’t die in Sweden but it’s not thanks to the actions of its leaders. They had no idea what type of risk they were taking.
Not doing anything is not a strategy. Neighboring Norway has around 9,900 confirmed cases and 261 dead. In Sweden there are 85,000 confirmed cases and 5,800 dead.
If a vaccine or cure is discovered then thousands of Swedish people died for nothing while they may still be saved in Norway.
Not having a lockdown hasn’t saved Sweden’s economy. They are reporting 10% unemployment rates, companies are going out of business and as any other actor on the global Covid-19 struck economy, they are suffering.
- horace
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Spain could afford a lockdown!
Perhaps but they couldn't afford to keep the tourists out and this was their mistake, imo. They should have kept borders closed and arranged bubbles for international holiday makers. However, that was also a EU thing.
I believe the unemployment rate is 20% now and 50 percent of businesses on the islands are expected to go under this year.
The new normal should have been introduced more gradually , something like a year of almost no inter-provincial travel or province bubbles.
They reckon and I agree that it will take successive undulating waves over a number of years ( 3) for people to actually adapt to the new normal. A vaccine will never work as all those crazies who are anti mask are probably anti vaccine. How long did it take to eradicate small pox?
Perhaps but they couldn't afford to keep the tourists out and this was their mistake, imo. They should have kept borders closed and arranged bubbles for international holiday makers. However, that was also a EU thing.
I believe the unemployment rate is 20% now and 50 percent of businesses on the islands are expected to go under this year.
The new normal should have been introduced more gradually , something like a year of almost no inter-provincial travel or province bubbles.
They reckon and I agree that it will take successive undulating waves over a number of years ( 3) for people to actually adapt to the new normal. A vaccine will never work as all those crazies who are anti mask are probably anti vaccine. How long did it take to eradicate small pox?
k440, something to do when you're pissed.
I don’t claim to have all the answers but I think risks could have been compared better. Sweden took an unnecessary risk by going against all the other countries and doing their own thing. Not because there were indications that they were right but because they wanted to be different.
It’s a dangerous game and I don’t think the general population should be gambled with only to stroke somebody’s ego.
It’s a dangerous game and I don’t think the general population should be gambled with only to stroke somebody’s ego.
Sweden.
PERIOD
All other countries fell for the ridiculous hype.
Sweden was the ONLY country acknowledging and accepting a virus will cause deaths.
A reality soon to be pushed upon every other country on earth.
Sweden.
PERIOD
PERIOD
All other countries fell for the ridiculous hype.
Sweden was the ONLY country acknowledging and accepting a virus will cause deaths.
A reality soon to be pushed upon every other country on earth.
Sweden.
PERIOD
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Isn’t anti maskers mostly a US thing? People are a bit lax at times here in The Netherlands, where the only related regulation is that is obligatory on public transport. The fine is so high that nobody I have seen has broken it. And I haven’t herd any cases of refusals due to religious zeal. If you were to enter a tram or bus without it the disapproving stares from the other passengers would force you off at the next stop, if they even accepted the vehicle to depart.
This is what I dont get from the US news reports, it seems to typically be something like; A passenger was forced off by police after refusing to mask. Why would the other passengers tolerate such a presence in the first place? If everybody around you express strong disapproval, and make a huge fuzz about it, police would not be needed, your situation would not be sustainable.
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You are forgetting all the interviews where Anders Tegnell, the state epidemiologist, acknowledges that the high death count in the elderly care, half the fatalities, was a huge failure, when the intention was to focus on protecting them, they instead got stuck in death traps, where as soon as one got infected, it quickly spread to the rest of the residents. And due to strict isolation rules, created to prevent covid to get in to the elderly homes, the relatives were not allowed to come in and sit by them as they passed, even when everybody on the inside already were infected.frigidaire wrote: ↑Fri Aug 14, 2020 11:41 pmSweden.
PERIOD
All other countries fell for the ridiculous hype.
Sweden was the ONLY country acknowledging and accepting a virus will cause deaths.
A reality soon to be pushed upon every other country on earth.
Sweden.
PERIOD
- Starving Pelican
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I feel that the best way forward is some sort of balance between a continued lockdown and a wild, rampant spreading of the virus, both of which are highly destructive. The problem is that no-one knows what, exactly, this balance should look like. This has led some governments to give up on lockdowns, and others to obsess over eliminating the virus instead of flattening its curve, as was initially yearned for.
You can't compare Sweden and Spain. Spain is suffering from the huge influx of foreigners with little to largely zero intention to adhere to the Covid-19 safety requirements. The Spain respike comes from that. Sweden already admitted some time ago, they should have done differently. If Sweden had the same tourist influx (number as well as type), the second wave would be much, much bigger than the current still going strong Swedish first wave.
- Lucky Lucan
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There are some countries in Europe where people have a lot of personal social responsibility. The Netherlands, Switzerland and Czech Republic seem like they have this. Ireland where I'm from and the UK where I lived for many years not so much. This became obvious when, for example, I could get on public transportation so easily without showing a ticket. A whole lot of people wouldn't pay in other countries if they weren't checked.Guru Meditation wrote: ↑Sat Aug 15, 2020 9:06 amIsn’t anti maskers mostly a US thing? People are a bit lax at times here in The Netherlands, where the only related regulation is that is obligatory on public transport. The fine is so high that nobody I have seen has broken it. And I haven’t herd any cases of refusals due to religious zeal. If you were to enter a tram or bus without it the disapproving stares from the other passengers would force you off at the next stop, if they even accepted the vehicle to depart.
Romantic Cambodia is dead and gone. It's with McKinley in the grave.
Sweden got it right, Spain went all fascist on it.
- horace
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Nearly all the current cases are either Spanish or migrant workers. The workers are employed to harvest the fruit n nuts and live in appalling conditions often sharing very basic toilet facilities. Most of the Spanish cases are a result of large family gatherings n parties. 70 % are under 50 as opposed to March / April when 70% were over 70, what is more 80% now are asymptomatic!v12 wrote: ↑Sat Aug 15, 2020 12:15 pmYou can't compare Sweden and Spain. Spain is suffering from the huge influx of foreigners with little to largely zero intention to adhere to the Covid-19 safety requirements. The Spain respike comes from that. Sweden already admitted some time ago, they should have done differently. If Sweden had the same tourist influx (number as well as type), the second wave would be much, much bigger than the current still going strong Swedish first wave.
k440, something to do when you're pissed.
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Long-term no country will be able to.stay locked down, Spain amongst the least able as it has struggled economically since 2008. There is a new disease and we have to accept it. Do we collapse the world economy to preserve the few, most of whom are probably towards the end of their lives or cry a river, build a bridge and get over it? The UK certainly couldn't afford a new lockdown with the unbelievable amount of money they gave away as support. By the way, in the UK you are currently 7 times more likely to die from influenza or pneumonia than COVID-19.
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