If you want to get all technical - Lisbon, Shanghai, Israel, Lebanon and Africa are all on the same island.Steeeeeveeeeeeee wrote: ↑Mon Oct 05, 2020 9:40 amEurope and Asia are a social construct. Lisbon and Shanghai are both on the same continent.
Israel/Lebanon are also technically African.
War breaking out in Armenia/Azerbaijan
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Geographically Europe ends north of the main Caucasus ridge. But that is more technical. Georgian feudalism (we talk pre-1800) was distinctively different from Ottoman and Persian state structures.
Baku was an European industrial hub in the late 19th century. The Nobel Brothers invented the modern oil industry with tankers, railway tankers and then pipelines. The chemical industry was big. Tbilisi was the administrative hub with a huge working class at the factories. Same in Baku. The Yerevan region was a rural backwater.
Looking at the Tbilisi Press is interesting in terms of what was read and shared. European fashion. The political activists shuttled between Paris, London, Geneva, Cairo and the Caucasus.
This fascinating world came to end in the early 1920s with the Soviets shutting down borders and killing almost anyone they could put their hands on. The loss of writers, scholars etc. is shocking, similar to 1915 in Istanbul.
I have an older Armenian friend. His mother had been born in Tbilisi and the family moved in time to Iran. She insisted on getting her Paris fashion magazine delivered to Iran. Piano and French language were standard household items.
As stated above, Europe is a cultural construct shared and lived by many in the area. In Yerevan i stayed near a music school. With open windows I got more Opera than in those past decades. After that the kids singing and later on the piano. A look at the Armenian national library and the literature museum is also impressive.
This has nothing to do with the villagers in the mountains. Same in Europe. When hiking in the Alps and passing summer pastures and staying for the family holiday in those small mountain villages we also felt like being in a different time with very different people around us.
Back to the war:
It seems that the big offensive of Sunday did not get anywhere or much beyond the earlier advances. Azeri claimed to had taken Maghadis. That's a small place in the far North of Artsakh. Armenians deny it. Whatever is the case, after one week of attacking and reported victories, Azeris present Maghadis as a huge success, if true. In other words, they not getting anywhere in the North.
Similar story in the South where Azeris claim to have taken Jabrayil. If so that would be significant progress for them but still limited given that they were throwing all they have at the Armenians.
The Armenian government claims that Russia will stand by its contractual obligations = defend Meghri. Iran has made similar sounds as to not allow a breakthrough into Armenian territory proper. In other words, the Turkish war aims have failed. There is a noli me tangere. Erdogan might be tempted but it takes only 2-3 bridges to end that adventure.
In case the Turks would try that there might be a more radical response and a painful strategic setback.
Finally, the Armenians are doing a good job at killing Isis militants right now. This is the perhaps only positive aspects of the whole mess. There are dozens of case files western agencies can close now.
Baku was an European industrial hub in the late 19th century. The Nobel Brothers invented the modern oil industry with tankers, railway tankers and then pipelines. The chemical industry was big. Tbilisi was the administrative hub with a huge working class at the factories. Same in Baku. The Yerevan region was a rural backwater.
Looking at the Tbilisi Press is interesting in terms of what was read and shared. European fashion. The political activists shuttled between Paris, London, Geneva, Cairo and the Caucasus.
This fascinating world came to end in the early 1920s with the Soviets shutting down borders and killing almost anyone they could put their hands on. The loss of writers, scholars etc. is shocking, similar to 1915 in Istanbul.
I have an older Armenian friend. His mother had been born in Tbilisi and the family moved in time to Iran. She insisted on getting her Paris fashion magazine delivered to Iran. Piano and French language were standard household items.
As stated above, Europe is a cultural construct shared and lived by many in the area. In Yerevan i stayed near a music school. With open windows I got more Opera than in those past decades. After that the kids singing and later on the piano. A look at the Armenian national library and the literature museum is also impressive.
This has nothing to do with the villagers in the mountains. Same in Europe. When hiking in the Alps and passing summer pastures and staying for the family holiday in those small mountain villages we also felt like being in a different time with very different people around us.
Back to the war:
It seems that the big offensive of Sunday did not get anywhere or much beyond the earlier advances. Azeri claimed to had taken Maghadis. That's a small place in the far North of Artsakh. Armenians deny it. Whatever is the case, after one week of attacking and reported victories, Azeris present Maghadis as a huge success, if true. In other words, they not getting anywhere in the North.
Similar story in the South where Azeris claim to have taken Jabrayil. If so that would be significant progress for them but still limited given that they were throwing all they have at the Armenians.
The Armenian government claims that Russia will stand by its contractual obligations = defend Meghri. Iran has made similar sounds as to not allow a breakthrough into Armenian territory proper. In other words, the Turkish war aims have failed. There is a noli me tangere. Erdogan might be tempted but it takes only 2-3 bridges to end that adventure.
In case the Turks would try that there might be a more radical response and a painful strategic setback.
Finally, the Armenians are doing a good job at killing Isis militants right now. This is the perhaps only positive aspects of the whole mess. There are dozens of case files western agencies can close now.
- Miguelito
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Armenia has also started to attack some major sites in Azerbaijan proper, including Ganja, which is Azerbaijan's second largest city (with a population of over 330k), and targeting a water reservoir and Electricity plant. It seems that several of the rockets failed to detonate on impact. Nevertheless, this should be a big warning for Azerbaijan.
the drone technology the turks manufacture is stunning in its breadth of mission capability.
Is it their own technology or is it shared from other countries, either are possible.
None if thus spray and pray unsanity we seen by the syrian rebs.
Is it their own technology or is it shared from other countries, either are possible.
None if thus spray and pray unsanity we seen by the syrian rebs.
Yesterday I typed out a long post which seems to have been lost.rocketeer wrote: ↑Mon Oct 05, 2020 1:03 pmthe drone technology the turks manufacture is stunning in its breadth of mission capability.
Is it their own technology or is it shared from other countries, either are possible.
None if thus spray and pray unsanity we seen by the syrian rebs.
Main points: Cold War era tactics involving tanks/APCs/Fixed artillery are over.
Cheap drones, mobile SAMs and highly mobile small groups of ground troops are in.
There will be more electronic counter measure technology deployed soon. The bigger boys are no doubt watching with much interest what is happening, and will be throwing in a few toys to the mix in this new live testing ground.
The same thing is going to be seen with large naval forces whenever there is a new proxy war with a coastline. Carriers especially are a thing of the past against somewhere like Iran.
Submersible unmanned weapons platforms are going to make a decisive contribution.
Maybe the turks have got something to rattle the meditterean and greeks.
Maybe the turks have got something to rattle the meditterean and greeks.
Most of the armed drones in use are really only good against an unsophisticated enemy. Fairly simple tech, lumbering along with propellers. They have been great for years fighting insurgents in Iraq and Afghanistan etc. They won't last 2 minutes if those Mig 29s start hunting them though.
The interesting developments are the small drones that a lot of countries are toying with. Imagine a swarm of 200 little quadcopters coming towards you at 80mph, each carrying a charge the size of a hand grenade. It will be overwhelming for normal air defences, not only devastating but really cheap to make thousands of them.
I remember seeing this video a few years ago of US fighter planes releasing a drone swarm. The noise of that swarm towards the end of the video, soldiers will be getting PTSD from hearing that coming towards them soon and it may start in this conflict because Turkey have this stuff.
The interesting developments are the small drones that a lot of countries are toying with. Imagine a swarm of 200 little quadcopters coming towards you at 80mph, each carrying a charge the size of a hand grenade. It will be overwhelming for normal air defences, not only devastating but really cheap to make thousands of them.
I remember seeing this video a few years ago of US fighter planes releasing a drone swarm. The noise of that swarm towards the end of the video, soldiers will be getting PTSD from hearing that coming towards them soon and it may start in this conflict because Turkey have this stuff.
With all due reserve - below the official Artsakh score board for 8 days of fighting:
"As of October 4, the Artsakh Defense Army has destroyed the adversary’s 14 combat helicopters, 17 warplanes, 124 drones, 368 units of armored vehicles—mainly tanks, 82 vehicles, and 10 armored personnel carriers—one TOS-1A heavy artillery system, 4 Smerch and 1 Uragan rocket launcher systems."
The Armenians have repeatedly claimed that Turkish F-16s were deployed to protect the SU-25 attack aircraft and those Turkish drones. This would confirm, at least in part, what has been said above.
It seems that the Turkish deployment of djihadists was not warmly received in the west. Turkey is pulling out another exploration ship in the Mediterranean. Trying to be good boys for the moment, it seems.
Opening this third front, apparently timed in line with the U.S. elections, will probably alert more than one government and raise questions about what comes next and what for.
What strikes me is that with all their resources, both Turkey and Azerbaijan seem to be incapable of making any significant gains. The cost for a few meters of unproductive land is enormous. The political damage for Turkey even more so.
"As of October 4, the Artsakh Defense Army has destroyed the adversary’s 14 combat helicopters, 17 warplanes, 124 drones, 368 units of armored vehicles—mainly tanks, 82 vehicles, and 10 armored personnel carriers—one TOS-1A heavy artillery system, 4 Smerch and 1 Uragan rocket launcher systems."
The Armenians have repeatedly claimed that Turkish F-16s were deployed to protect the SU-25 attack aircraft and those Turkish drones. This would confirm, at least in part, what has been said above.
It seems that the Turkish deployment of djihadists was not warmly received in the west. Turkey is pulling out another exploration ship in the Mediterranean. Trying to be good boys for the moment, it seems.
Opening this third front, apparently timed in line with the U.S. elections, will probably alert more than one government and raise questions about what comes next and what for.
What strikes me is that with all their resources, both Turkey and Azerbaijan seem to be incapable of making any significant gains. The cost for a few meters of unproductive land is enormous. The political damage for Turkey even more so.
Of course azerbaijan on their own are up against it but turkey is whole other foe.
The turks did this in syria. At the beginning the turks didnt seem upto it but then they untied one arm from behind their backs and everyone took off.
The turks did this in syria. At the beginning the turks didnt seem upto it but then they untied one arm from behind their backs and everyone took off.
Yesterday there were only policy posts on the Armenian news websites without much coverage of the front lines. Today the videos are back including the victory news. It seems that, indeed, there had been a sustained Azeri attack in Jabrayil which apparently was defeated after initial Armenian setbacks. The current videos show columns of Azeri trucks and other vehicles, no tanks, to be in retreat. The Armenians also celebrate the capture of a strategic hilltop. Not clear when that had been taken, yesterday, last week, in 2016? Difficult to locate the place on google.
Armenians also post videos on the destruction of an Azeri fuel depot. That thing blew badly.
If the info is correct and the conclusion drawn not too far off the actual events, this would mean that the Azeri suffered a major defeat after some initial success.
Apparently, a unit composed of Yezidi fighters is operating in the Southern sector with a view to extend their people's gratitude to the Isis-fighters on the Azeri side.
Meanwhile a video from Iran shows tanks being shipped to the Meghri region (Iranian side).
Azeri civilian population is evacuating cities within reach of Armenian artillery. S300 systems have been deployed to Baku airport. It seems that the shelling of Stepanakert and other Armenian towns has triggered Armenian strikes like on Gandja, Tartar with more in the making. The idea of a clean border war and offensive has failed as far as the Azeri government might have hoped for.
Armenians also post videos on the destruction of an Azeri fuel depot. That thing blew badly.
If the info is correct and the conclusion drawn not too far off the actual events, this would mean that the Azeri suffered a major defeat after some initial success.
Apparently, a unit composed of Yezidi fighters is operating in the Southern sector with a view to extend their people's gratitude to the Isis-fighters on the Azeri side.
Meanwhile a video from Iran shows tanks being shipped to the Meghri region (Iranian side).
Azeri civilian population is evacuating cities within reach of Armenian artillery. S300 systems have been deployed to Baku airport. It seems that the shelling of Stepanakert and other Armenian towns has triggered Armenian strikes like on Gandja, Tartar with more in the making. The idea of a clean border war and offensive has failed as far as the Azeri government might have hoped for.
Reading some interesting things today RE: Russia.
Russia sells arms to both sides, but is miffed with Azer for shopping in Turkey and Israel. Also miffed with the new government in Armenia for not being totally pro-Moscow.
The theory is that Russia waits, offers mediation and eventually sends 'peace keeping' forces into the disputed areas, thus ending the war and showing both sides (and Turkey) who the daddy is.
Russia sells arms to both sides, but is miffed with Azer for shopping in Turkey and Israel. Also miffed with the new government in Armenia for not being totally pro-Moscow.
The theory is that Russia waits, offers mediation and eventually sends 'peace keeping' forces into the disputed areas, thus ending the war and showing both sides (and Turkey) who the daddy is.
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Yes, previous governments have been more pro-Russia... rumored mafia ties and all. I’m not well versed in the current government’s background though.War Nerd wrote: ↑Thu Oct 08, 2020 2:50 pmAlso miffed with the new government in Armenia for not being totally pro-Moscow.
The current Armenian government is pretty solid pro-Russian and came to power with the tacit consent of the Russians. Meaning, Putin had learned a lesson from Ukraine and let the mafia go.
Some of the Armenian oligarchs had/have Russian passports and fled to Moscow which wont extradite them. At the same time Armenia serves as a conduit for Russian money hit by sanctions. So the dual-citizens arrange a detour for their funds through Yerevan.
Armenia had just bought modern jets from Russia, a small plant to assemble AK-47s, and practically all Armenian military hardware is Russian. The Armenians wont put their security at the mercy of the West.
Who's winning. It is complicated. Armenian reports successes like taking hillsides, destroying Azeri hardware. Problem is - how did the Azeris get to those places? That was left unreported.
The Armenians are certainly winning the PR war. The deployment of ISIS butchers against a Christian population is something else than doing it in Libya. It also nothing the Iranians will stomach after what these killers did in Iraq.
It also does not help the Azeri when they bomb churches and hit international news teams that are on the site.
I m very interested to see what the European governments, not the EU, will do. Erdogan has crossed several red lines and there will be a price to be paid by Turkey.
Some of the Armenian oligarchs had/have Russian passports and fled to Moscow which wont extradite them. At the same time Armenia serves as a conduit for Russian money hit by sanctions. So the dual-citizens arrange a detour for their funds through Yerevan.
Armenia had just bought modern jets from Russia, a small plant to assemble AK-47s, and practically all Armenian military hardware is Russian. The Armenians wont put their security at the mercy of the West.
Who's winning. It is complicated. Armenian reports successes like taking hillsides, destroying Azeri hardware. Problem is - how did the Azeris get to those places? That was left unreported.
The Armenians are certainly winning the PR war. The deployment of ISIS butchers against a Christian population is something else than doing it in Libya. It also nothing the Iranians will stomach after what these killers did in Iraq.
It also does not help the Azeri when they bomb churches and hit international news teams that are on the site.
I m very interested to see what the European governments, not the EU, will do. Erdogan has crossed several red lines and there will be a price to be paid by Turkey.
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