Australia’s SOS - Christine Anderson - from the EU Parliament.
Most Americans don't know how to eat properly because they have been misinformed by the government. Most Americans are terrified of high fat foods because of the fraudulent food pyramid. Low fat foods are generally unpalatable so corporations use sugar as a substitute for fat. This entire low fat craze was pushed forward by the medical establishment and it has had devastating consequences. Obviously there is some connection between cholesterol and heart disease but more and more epidemiologists and doctors are acknowledging that the danger posed by high fat foods is overblown. Most Americans also routinely eat processed foods.
The medical establishment should have spent a much larger share of their enormous budget on informing the public. Public schools should teach practical subjects like cooking and personal finance. I had a health class in high school and the teacher was about 40 pounds overweight. Why should I learn about health from a person who can't even take care of herself?
Look at the health minister of Belgium:
Or the assistant Secretary of Health from the United States:
Why would I trust these people with my health?
The medical establishment should have spent a much larger share of their enormous budget on informing the public. Public schools should teach practical subjects like cooking and personal finance. I had a health class in high school and the teacher was about 40 pounds overweight. Why should I learn about health from a person who can't even take care of herself?
Look at the health minister of Belgium:
Or the assistant Secretary of Health from the United States:
Why would I trust these people with my health?
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Since I started this direction of the thread I guess I have to take responsibility for that.
My intended point was not to mock peoples physical fitness, I was more aiming towards the hypocrisy when mortally obese people as a group get insulted when somebody suggests that maybe we should try to change the rules for marketing to kids and teenagers, etc, in order to cut down on all the influences to young ones, that you actually need to drink 2+ liters of sweetened soft drinks each day, and order oversized servings whenever you eat out.
Combined with general societal changes that promote physical activity, not so much by prohibiting stuff, or forcing people to a gym 5h a week. More making sane choices easy and rational. If you live in a neighborhood with no meaningful public transport, the only option to bike is in car lanes, and any regular trip, like buying daily groceries is at distances that kind of forces you to use a car. It is pretty unfair to blame people forced to live such lives for not exercising, especially if they have a limited financial situation. A lot of people work more than one job, just to be able to afford to stay alive in pretty sad living conditions. The problem should not be focused on them making poor choices, it's us as a society that didn't give them more options. Very few people want to live in a slum, but if you start your life on the bottom fifth, getting out of it, is pretty hard. I don't know about you, but I had the advantage of a good start in life, and to be honest, it took me far too long to realize that most of the simple things I take for granted are much more due to my privileged start, than my shining excellence as a person.
Since people's ability to change is fairly limited, the focus should be on tomorrow's generations, to try to help them avoid getting into that mess. Not so much seeing obese people as a lost cause, more just a realistic acceptance that if you have a group of people, most of them will not be able to change much, kudos to those that manage to do it of course, but seeing it as a failure if a person is not able to change will just make you despise 95% of humanity just by first impressions. I guess your choice, but it will most likely only end up making you rather unpleasant to be around.
Ok that was a far too long intro, now back to my actual reply
Being obese is not in any way related to being incompetent, sure they would have benefitted from a healthier lifestyle but that goes for most of us. You could also argue that a person that ended up that way has first-hand experience of the issues it causes, and thus might make it his/her crusade to try to help others from suffering the same.
So posting pictures of obese people without any real context is just fat-shaming at the most pathetic level.
I know nothing about either person, if they do claim they are slim and should be seen as examples of physical excellence, then I guess mockery is in place. But my guess is that you just took the two fattest persons you could think of to make a cheap point.
If I am wrong I owe you an apology and it will be delivered promptly.
I don't know about Belgium specifically, but in most countries, if you excel in the political game you tend to end up getting a ministerial role eventually, and often once you are seen as ready for such a task, you will kind of get the next ministry post that becomes available. Quite often the minister of department X has little or no specific knowledge in that field, but their role is not to come in and tell the department what to do, they are the figurehead, and if they are good at listening to their staff, and use their political pondus to make things that their department is aiming for to happen, that is a job well done for a minister, and they will move on to bigger departments, or a stint at the top.
A health minister being obese does not imply that she will try to make her weight the next normal. Same as an oncologist who is a heavy smoker is not less qualified in treating lung cancer, but you should perhaps not see him/her as an inspiration when it comes to not stop smoking...
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- Hanno
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The new German Health Minister. Slim and a physician which, inexplicably, is rare for a German Health Minister:
"I realized that If I had to choose, I would rather have birds than airplanes."
Charles Lindbergh
Charles Lindbergh
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He's probably a teetotal non-smoking vegetarian!
I wonder if he paints...
Well, the school tuition is something for the school board, that's called freedom. Where school boards leave out proper sex education, and other sensitive subjects properly taught in countries with much lower teenage pregnancies, etc.Harold wrote: ↑Sat Dec 11, 2021 10:32 pmMost Americans don't know how to eat properly because they have been misinformed by the government. Most Americans are terrified of high fat foods because of the fraudulent food pyramid. Low fat foods are generally unpalatable so corporations use sugar as a substitute for fat. This entire low fat craze was pushed forward by the medical establishment and it has had devastating consequences. Obviously there is some connection between cholesterol and heart disease but more and more epidemiologists and doctors are acknowledging that the danger posed by high fat foods is overblown. Most Americans also routinely eat processed foods.
The medical establishment should have spent a much larger share of their enormous budget on informing the public. Public schools should teach practical subjects like cooking and personal finance. I had a health class in high school and the teacher was about 40 pounds overweight. Why should I learn about health from a person who can't even take care of herself?
.....
Try, as a government, to influence the school tuition, and you move into strange territory.
And, in your writing, there are more bogus assumptions, like that the CDC should “connect” overweight with Covid-19 morbidity. They did, but low profile, because everything related to overweight is a religion in the US and can only be spoken about in a non-blaming way. And, yeah, all the calories get in through the mouth, so highly a personal choice. That is freedom.
And, yeah, people need to consume some fat. If not eaten enough fat, they crave for sugary items to get the sugar converted into fat. And because of the craving and lead time before a sufficient fat level is reached, the sugar will be overdosed, a big overdose.
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People should have the right to choose.
'History is a set of lies agreed upon.'
Attributed to Napoleon
Attributed to Napoleon
My only serious point is that taxpayers like me have given doctors and scientists like Fauci trillions of dollars of our money and tasked them with improving the health of the country.Guru Meditation wrote: ↑Sun Dec 12, 2021 9:44 amSince I started this direction of the thread I guess I have to take responsibility for that.
..[...]
They have totally failed at their task as people from a country like Cuba, a country where bottled water is hard to come by in the capital city, live as long as Americans.
Seeing as how American epidemiologists promoted low fat diets to the public and the results have been devastating to the health of the American public, why should I trust them now?
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The argument about vaccine mandates is happening at completely the wrong level as this thread shows, it’s just descended into tribalist politics, the argument is far more fundamental than that.
It’s a question of basic human rights and more specifically why we as believers in democracy require universal human rights.
Surely they are only important for places like Cambodia? While for western democracies they are less important because we can vote out tyrannical leaders, right?
But what about a tyrannical populace? How do we vote them out?
Universal rights are arguably more important in a functioning democracy as they function to prevent the tyranny of the majority.
They are a line that cannot be crossed even with a democratic majority.
The majority can’t simply vote to start gassing Jews, castrating gays or banning religions even if a logical argument could be made that it is beneficial for the majority.
This is the bedrock of western democracy, these human rights were hard won over centuries and have steadily moved in one direction, the right direction, the direction of the sovereign individual, an individual that is free to reign over their own thoughts, beliefs and body.
Do we want to set a precedence that the majority can remove these rights? Or worse yet give governments the power to remove them at will in “times of emergency”?
This is more important than ever at our current juncture, where our populations are polarised as we struggle to create a shared moral framework in our post religion society.
It’s times like this that people feel under threat where the majority could easily slip into tyranny under the banner of the “greater good”.
The highway to hell is paved with good intentions.
It’s a question of basic human rights and more specifically why we as believers in democracy require universal human rights.
Surely they are only important for places like Cambodia? While for western democracies they are less important because we can vote out tyrannical leaders, right?
But what about a tyrannical populace? How do we vote them out?
Universal rights are arguably more important in a functioning democracy as they function to prevent the tyranny of the majority.
They are a line that cannot be crossed even with a democratic majority.
The majority can’t simply vote to start gassing Jews, castrating gays or banning religions even if a logical argument could be made that it is beneficial for the majority.
This is the bedrock of western democracy, these human rights were hard won over centuries and have steadily moved in one direction, the right direction, the direction of the sovereign individual, an individual that is free to reign over their own thoughts, beliefs and body.
Do we want to set a precedence that the majority can remove these rights? Or worse yet give governments the power to remove them at will in “times of emergency”?
This is more important than ever at our current juncture, where our populations are polarised as we struggle to create a shared moral framework in our post religion society.
It’s times like this that people feel under threat where the majority could easily slip into tyranny under the banner of the “greater good”.
The highway to hell is paved with good intentions.
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If we are going down that road, here are some other suggestions that pass the logic test but fail the moral test:
Overweight people put a disproportionate strain on our health system, should we:
a) Place taxes on fattening foods
b) Ban anyone with a BMI above 25 from purchasing fattening foods
c) Force exercise programs
d) Place them in fat camps
e) Euthanise them
Why stop with fat people, what about the burden of the elderly, or the disabled or underperforming minorities?
Imagine the utopia we could create if only we could shed the burden of the undesirables…..?
Overweight people put a disproportionate strain on our health system, should we:
a) Place taxes on fattening foods
b) Ban anyone with a BMI above 25 from purchasing fattening foods
c) Force exercise programs
d) Place them in fat camps
e) Euthanise them
Why stop with fat people, what about the burden of the elderly, or the disabled or underperforming minorities?
Imagine the utopia we could create if only we could shed the burden of the undesirables…..?
They did not fail. They did have the limitations of the "Freedom" in the US. Where every idiot can have his uninformed opinion and do whatever he wants, including all the stupid things like being an anti-vaxxer. Which in turn ruins the health situation of everybody and creates the need for lockdowns. Which in turn destroys the economy, increases pricing, etc.Harold wrote: ↑Sun Dec 12, 2021 2:41 pmMy only serious point is that taxpayers like me have given doctors and scientists like Fauci trillions of dollars of our money and tasked them with improving the health of the country.Guru Meditation wrote: ↑Sun Dec 12, 2021 9:44 amSince I started this direction of the thread I guess I have to take responsibility for that.
..[...]
They have totally failed at their task as people from a country like Cuba, a country where bottled water is hard to come by in the capital city, live as long as Americans.
Seeing as how American epidemiologists promoted low fat diets to the public and the results have been devastating to the health of the American public, why should I trust them now?
There is a far easier solution: Let everybody experience the consequences of his/her own decisions.starkmonster wrote: ↑Sun Dec 12, 2021 3:48 pmIf we are going down that road, here are some other suggestions that pass the logic test but fail the moral test:
Overweight people put a disproportionate strain on our health system, should we:
a) Place taxes on fattening foods
b) Ban anyone with a BMI above 25 from purchasing fattening foods
c) Force exercise programs
d) Place them in fat camps
e) Euthanise them
Why stop with fat people, what about the burden of the elderly, or the disabled or underperforming minorities?
Imagine the utopia we could create if only we could shed the burden of the undesirables…..?
So, Anti-vaxxers don't get admitted to hospitals and are invited to die at home or on the streets.
As well, the Anti-vaxxers aren't allowed to join social life and should stay separated from the properly vaxxed people.
Similar items for fat stuff. Got fat: OK, bear with it, your own problem.
What are you referring to when you say limitations of the freedom?
Harold - the chief medical advisor role to the president has only existed for 2 years. How can you say Americans have become more unhealthy under Fauci's watch and cite obesity and diabetes, when his expertise is in infectious disease, which these are not. He has nothing to do with governmental responses to these. AIDS/HIV - yes, swine flu - yes, ebola, yes. That is why he was brought in - not to cure all the four eyed fatty freaks with allergies .......... just sayingHarold wrote: ↑Sat Dec 11, 2021 5:58 pmThis is an interesting point you raise. Americans have become more and more unhealthy under Fauci's watch. Obesity and diabetes have been on the rise for decades and the government has not done much to combat this trend. Schools could teach kids how to prepare healthy meals and teach them about the importance of having a balanced diet and why they should avoid processed foods and sugar and why it is important to get an adequate amount of exercise but they don't.Guru Meditation wrote: ↑Thu Dec 09, 2021 12:49 amAnd you guys have managed to maintain this “autonomy over their own body“ up to a point where you as a population is mortally obese, have one of the highest teen pregnancy rates and yet still find anybody suggesting a healthier life style or actual pre sexual maturity sex-ed highly offensive.
Telling a pregnant couple to use a condom doesn’t make much difference. Making kids aware of how not to become pregnant long before they even feel lust for each other does.
When this pandemic began, there was already strong evidence that healthy people are far less likely to die or be hospitalized by the virus. Fauci once again missed an opportunity to promote a healthy lifestyle.
There are so many four eyed freaks, freaks with food allergies, and fatties in the US and it is worse than it has ever been. So why should the taxpayers respect doctors when they have spent trillions of dollars of our money and the country is worse for the wear?
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