War breaking out in Armenia/Azerbaijan
- Miguelito
- Ordinary Schmo
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This could be significant. You can already track the Turkish Air Force flights from turkey to Azerbaijan (over Georgia), which could include advisors and fighters, and a few large private jet flights from Moscow to Armenia, which could include advisors and intelligence officers, but if a Turkish fighter jet shot down an Armenian jet in Armenia, that would be a major escalation.
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- Prahok
- I Am Losing It All to the Internet
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The presence of so much armour and the timing of the offensive so late in the fighting season suggests a smash and grab that has gone terribly wrong.
Catch the Armenians on the hop, grab a decent swathe, hold onto it until the snows come and then spend the Winter shoring up defenses whilst basking in domestic adulation and increasing Turkish support.
Sounded a good idea whilst sipping coffee with the Generals in the war room.
Catch the Armenians on the hop, grab a decent swathe, hold onto it until the snows come and then spend the Winter shoring up defenses whilst basking in domestic adulation and increasing Turkish support.
Sounded a good idea whilst sipping coffee with the Generals in the war room.
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Turkey was a reluctant participant but armenia pushing all the wrong buttons left it no choice.
The armenian militants occupying n k will have a bloody festive season.
The armenian militants occupying n k will have a bloody festive season.
- Felgerkarb
- Sir Felgerkarb, Kt Pb
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Excellent point.Prahok wrote: ↑Wed Sep 30, 2020 6:22 amThe presence of so much armour and the timing of the offensive so late in the fighting season suggests a smash and grab that has gone terribly wrong.
Catch the Armenians on the hop, grab a decent swathe, hold onto it until the snows come and then spend the Winter shoring up defenses whilst basking in domestic adulation and increasing Turkish support.
Sounded a good idea whilst sipping coffee with the Generals in the war room.
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Why are the gods such vicious cunts?
Where is the god of tits and wine?
Why are the gods such vicious cunts?
Where is the god of tits and wine?
I think you should acquaint yourself with some facts and background. The were and are always other choices. You are a sad character, applauding when young die who had not even a life of their own.Sgt shulz wrote: ↑Wed Sep 30, 2020 6:49 amTurkey was a reluctant participant but armenia pushing all the wrong buttons left it no choice.
The armenian militants occupying n k will have a bloody festive season.
Artsakh is an old Armenian area dating back to a time when there were no Mongols, Turkish speaking groups, Muslims (Islam did not exist at that time) were in the area. The old churches and other remains attest to this. This was also the case in the surrounding areas. Since 1990 at the latest, Azerbaijan has systematically eradicated those traces on its territory but they had been documented by more than a century of international scholarship.
Artsakh is an area where the Armenian population held out in the mountains and hills unlike in the plains. In 1918 the Ottoman forces and in combination with Tartar gangs armed by the Ottoman Turks tried to eradicate the population. The Katherinenfeld Massace near Gandja is documented even with photos. The Turks even killed an Austrian allied officers as he was reporting on the atrocities. At the time, German troops in Georgia opened fire on the Ottoman ally to stop their aggression as Germany and newly independent state had an alliance.
Armenian independence was Turkish made as Turkey needed a party to sign off on its territorial gains. What an irony.
There is abundant literature on this period.
So Artsakh was never occupied by Armenians. It is as Armenian as it gets. What you have in Artsakh is a population fighting for its survival. It did so when it was attacked and they had the Sumgait slaughter as a very recent warning.
In the 1990s, the Armenians of Artsakh took not one prisoner who was Chechen or Afghan Mujahedin. Sounds cruel, but the mutilated bodies of civilians were one reason. By the way, those fighters formed at the time the 'second line' charged with executing fleeing Azeri soldiers. Years after the war there were, however, large numbers of Azeri POWs. At the time, 2000, the efforts to get those men back were minimal.
As for the Russian transport planes in Yerevan: BBC claimed (and accused ?) the Armenian FM that weapons were airlifted. He did not deny and pointed to the attack.
At this time Armenians of Georgia have blocked a highway. Turkish trucks were/are apparently shipping supplies to Azerbaijan.At the same time Georgia is preventing its Armenian population from donating food and medical supplies to Artsakh/Armenia. This will become a serious political issue in Georgia in the future.
I m hoping that Armenia will promptly post images of the downed Armenian aircraft. The Turkish F16 from Gandja airport in Azerbaijan was reportedly 60 kms in Armenian territory. So the wreckage should be on Armenian territory. Unless it fell into the lake or in an inaccessible mountain range, it should be possible to locate it.
As for Turkish reluctance. In the late 2000s under President Abdullah Gul and FM Ahmet Davutoglu Turkey iniated a zero problem policy with its neighbors. Part of that was the so-called football diplomacy with Armenia. This effort at de-escalation was sabotaged by then PM Erdogan. Since 2011 the latter transformed the ruling AKP into an autocratically ruled body. The government became a candy store for his family.
Today we have Turkish military, weapons and Jihadist mercenaries from Syria serving Turkey in Libya and Azerbaijan, Turkish troops in Syria and Iraq. Threats of war coupled with violations of national sovereignty targeting Cyprus and Greece.
The whole operation is financed by Qatar as the country needs Turkish troops for its survival given the threat from its neighbors. Turkey itself is financially a Zombie state.
Erdogan's jihadist connections aside from his Muslim Brotherhood ties were obvious through the petrol deals with ISIS. Petrol was exported to Turkey through Qamishli. During the Kurdish defense of Kobane, Erdogan allowed Isis fighters to pass through Turkish territory to by-pass Kurdish defenses. When U.S. troops advanced, Isis fighters disappeared. They reappeared as militias showing the grey wolf sign while attacking Kurdish Afrin.
THe ruling AKP has also established partner organizations in European countries that run in elections. DOST in Bulgaria and another one in Germany. In Germany they ran for local office with Erdogan on the posters.
Turkey's war aim at this time in the Caucasus is to obtain a land link with Azerbaijan. In other words, occupying Meghri an Armenian district bordering Iran. The direction of the offensive, massive deployments, statements of Erdogan's circle and the direct involvement of Turkish forces attest to this.
As for the planning of the attack: Azerbaijan refused an inspection of the line of control by outside observers on Sept. 25 = 2 days before the attack.
An operation against Meghri would result in a major war involving Russia and the other states of the defense treaty plus Iran. The outcome would be devastating for Azerbaijan and worse for Nakhitchevan in particular.
While these geopolitical aspects are important, one should not forget the people suffering. Targeting civilians is simply a crime and all states involved have signed relevant paperwork with the Council of Europe.
Personally, I did not feel any satisfaction this morning when I saw a video showing exploding Azeri tanks with dead bodies flying through the air. A week ago these men had a life, a family and a future as did the dead Armenians. But then I have to accept that I am a different character than that Sgt. Shulz posting here.
Just read a terrific book about the region. A British force sent to Iraq and ended up escaping on ships after trying to keep the Turks out of Baku.
There were only a 1000 of them but they were a handpicked mix of colonials and poms, highly mobile with Model Ts and armoured cars and truckloads of Lewis machine guns.
They were too little too late in 1918 but they did deter the Russians, the Germans and the Turks from taking Iraq or even India. The whole Caucasus and Iraq and Iran were starving. The British refused to pay for Iranian oil and the Russians and the British stole all the crops. Millions starved, starving people along all the roads eating grass and children!
When Baku finally fell the Azerbaijanis and Turks murdered and raped all the Armenians. Young girls were always abducted and sold into Turkish brothels.
The British force had surprisingly few casualties and the Turks thought the force was five times its size due to mobility and lots of machine guns and ammo.
Robert Fisk has written the 450 page tome on the region and it is a devastating read. I just have my copy to my local barber. A young Iraqi/ Armenian chap.
There were only a 1000 of them but they were a handpicked mix of colonials and poms, highly mobile with Model Ts and armoured cars and truckloads of Lewis machine guns.
They were too little too late in 1918 but they did deter the Russians, the Germans and the Turks from taking Iraq or even India. The whole Caucasus and Iraq and Iran were starving. The British refused to pay for Iranian oil and the Russians and the British stole all the crops. Millions starved, starving people along all the roads eating grass and children!
When Baku finally fell the Azerbaijanis and Turks murdered and raped all the Armenians. Young girls were always abducted and sold into Turkish brothels.
The British force had surprisingly few casualties and the Turks thought the force was five times its size due to mobility and lots of machine guns and ammo.
Robert Fisk has written the 450 page tome on the region and it is a devastating read. I just have my copy to my local barber. A young Iraqi/ Armenian chap.
The history is very interesting.
It seems every article about this new phase implies a legal aspect.
Its difficult to sympathise otherwise.
I suppose it will be decided in the u.n and whatever side ignores the u.n will do so at their peril.
It seems every article about this new phase implies a legal aspect.
Its difficult to sympathise otherwise.
I suppose it will be decided in the u.n and whatever side ignores the u.n will do so at their peril.
- Prahok
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The Palestinians would probably argue that point.Observer wrote: ↑Wed Sep 30, 2020 2:30 pmI suppose it will be decided in the u.n and whatever side ignores the u.n will do so at their peril.
The history is interesting, however the interpretation and communication of history has been coloured with the domestic political needs of strongman politics, both within the immediate confines of the conflict and in the regional geopolitical theatre.
An Armenian scholar with strong ties to Iran (Iranologist) reported that the Republican Guards of Iran, speak the Elite unit of the army, are deploying heavy weapons near the Armenian-Iranian border. Looks like that Iran, too, expects the Azeris trying to attack Meghri. Iran would have to intervene to prevent that from happening.
Armenian is not part of the sanctions regime and this trade link is essential for both countries.
Armenians claim that Turkey is in direct control of air operations of the Turkish and Azeri jets in action.
The Azeri accused Armenia of using SS-21 rockets with conventional war heads. Armenians claim this is false and fear that it is pretext to use their own SS-21. A pattern of action previously employed by Azerbaijan.
I am pretty speechless when I see the footage of hit battle tanks. They blow up in the air like fire crackers. I had no idea that the tanks are that vulnerable. Pretty much a suicide mission to serve in tank battalion.
Armenian is not part of the sanctions regime and this trade link is essential for both countries.
Armenians claim that Turkey is in direct control of air operations of the Turkish and Azeri jets in action.
The Azeri accused Armenia of using SS-21 rockets with conventional war heads. Armenians claim this is false and fear that it is pretext to use their own SS-21. A pattern of action previously employed by Azerbaijan.
I am pretty speechless when I see the footage of hit battle tanks. They blow up in the air like fire crackers. I had no idea that the tanks are that vulnerable. Pretty much a suicide mission to serve in tank battalion.
In the first 3 or 4 years of the syrian civil youtubes best years ever we had uncensored video of anything the fsa put up.
This armenia azeri latest phase will be sanitised for the snowflakes and turkey knows it and will be going beyond that which it normally would when cameras everywhere.
Its going to be a dirty little war and very little independent coverage.
This armenia azeri latest phase will be sanitised for the snowflakes and turkey knows it and will be going beyond that which it normally would when cameras everywhere.
Its going to be a dirty little war and very little independent coverage.
BBC interviewed one of the Syrian jihadists in Azerbaijan. The man confirmed that last week he had been recruited, sent via Turkey to Azerbaijan under false promises. He took part or is taken part in the battles. That should settle questions around the use of former ISIS fighters by Turkey and Azerbaijan and confirms the pattern we know from Kobane, Afrin, the Northern strip in Syria, Libya. Not really surprising concerning the actions of Turkey, a country run by the Muslim Brotherhood and the Turkish fascist party (MHP).
Just saw in the Guardian a detailed piece on the Syrian jihadists. Several were killed. The journalists could track the relatives of some with local roots in the Afrin area.
The info would also fit with earlier Armenian claims that proportionally more soldiers from Azerbaijan's other non-dominant groups are deployed at the front than ethnic Tartars/Azeri.
Most commentators fail to register the Iran connection and the importance of Meghri for Russia, Armenian, and Iran. This is either deliberate or exposes a sad lack of knowledge. The deployment of the Republican Guards close to Meghri, if true, should ring more than one alarm bell.
The info would also fit with earlier Armenian claims that proportionally more soldiers from Azerbaijan's other non-dominant groups are deployed at the front than ethnic Tartars/Azeri.
Most commentators fail to register the Iran connection and the importance of Meghri for Russia, Armenian, and Iran. This is either deliberate or exposes a sad lack of knowledge. The deployment of the Republican Guards close to Meghri, if true, should ring more than one alarm bell.
- Felgerkarb
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That is very bad, but not unexpected. This is escalating quickly.visitor-again wrote: ↑Thu Oct 01, 2020 10:20 amThe deployment of the Republican Guards close to Meghri, if true, should ring more than one alarm bell.
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Why are the gods such vicious cunts?
Where is the god of tits and wine?
Why are the gods such vicious cunts?
Where is the god of tits and wine?
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