Hun Tien is a prince from Yunnan? What?
Hun Tien is a prince from Yunnan? What?
No offense to Alex the so-called Muay Thai historian though but there are already inscription about Hun Tien from Champa side. I get that his source are all from chinese sources but it seems he doesn't want to connect history and science together. He says the Shan-Tai were predominantly around Northeastern Thailand but the thing that he doesn't mention are the other ethnic groups that surround that area like Chong, Kuy, Pearic, Mon. I do not think there is a connection between the Shan-Tai and the Chenla empire since there isn't any proof nor evidence.
Yeah, I wouldn't like to pin things down to one guy from one tribe during that period.
As you say there were lots of different groups about (Mon-Khmer, for example, even today has 30 something different languages and a range that stretches from India to Vietnam). Then the Tai tribes, the Austronesians (Chams/Malays etc.) and the Tibeto-Burman (no doubt a few more).
You've got hundreds of different groups in the same area, who must have had some limited contact through trade and/or war.
From, say about 2000 BC, when the rice revolution took off, all these dudes hadn't much to do after planting/ harvesting crops, save fucking and fighting. Not at all unlikely, and looking at how ideas spread throughout human history, whatever we have today came from hundreds of years of mixed up rules and styles depending on which culture was dominant at the time, and taking the styles from previous or other impressive dudes.
Claiming that a certain way of kicking the shit out of another person is Thai/Khmer/Burmese etc is pretty much pointless, The culture evolved over a long time, without a singular inventor.
As you say there were lots of different groups about (Mon-Khmer, for example, even today has 30 something different languages and a range that stretches from India to Vietnam). Then the Tai tribes, the Austronesians (Chams/Malays etc.) and the Tibeto-Burman (no doubt a few more).
You've got hundreds of different groups in the same area, who must have had some limited contact through trade and/or war.
From, say about 2000 BC, when the rice revolution took off, all these dudes hadn't much to do after planting/ harvesting crops, save fucking and fighting. Not at all unlikely, and looking at how ideas spread throughout human history, whatever we have today came from hundreds of years of mixed up rules and styles depending on which culture was dominant at the time, and taking the styles from previous or other impressive dudes.
Claiming that a certain way of kicking the shit out of another person is Thai/Khmer/Burmese etc is pretty much pointless, The culture evolved over a long time, without a singular inventor.
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What social media are you seeing Alex on? I'm interested in seeing more of his posts.kke802 wrote: ↑Sun Jan 10, 2021 1:28 pmNo offense to Alex the so-called Muay Thai historian though but there are already inscription about Hun Tien from Champa side. I get that his source are all from chinese sources but it seems he doesn't want to connect history and science together. He says the Shan-Tai were predominantly around Northeastern Thailand but the thing that he doesn't mention are the other ethnic groups that surround that area like Chong, Kuy, Pearic, Mon. I do not think there is a connection between the Shan-Tai and the Chenla empire since there isn't any proof nor evidence.
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That Alex guy is a complete fraud when it comes to history. You shouldn't believe anything he says. Why? Because he just makes up fairy tales without any historical evidence.
Statement 1: "Hun-tien was a prince from Yunnan."
Funan was Khmer, Chenla was Khmer, but the origin of Funan was started by a prince from Yunnan? This is the most ridiculous statement you could make in regards to Cambodian history. Yunnan has always been an unsignificant part of China, and the people from Yunnan migrated into Myanmar and Northern Thailand only from the 11th century upward.
To claim that the founder of Funan named Hun Tian in Cambodia came from Yunnan is just as ridiculous as saying that he came from Siberia, Africa, or from the North Pole together with his seven reindeers.
Statement 2: "Land Chenla was Thai-Lao."
This second statement is just as absurd as the first one. Again, the Thai people migrated into Thailand, Lao, and Myanmar from the 11th century upward, and no trace of any Thai/Tai culture or genetics is found from earlier.
The people who did reside in modern day Laos and Thailand were the Mon people. They founded the kingdom of Dvaravati in Thailand, and related people to the Mon brought Austro-Asiatic culture, language, and agriculture with them to Cambodia. They mixed with the indigenous Austro-Melanesian people in Cambodia and founded the Pearic language, from which Khmer language descended. Some also mixed with the Austro-Melanesian people in Southern Thailand/Malaysia, and also with some of the Austronesian people in Vietnam.
Again, this whole history-distortion from this Alex shows he's a big fraud, and he should keep his fairy tales to himself, as he is a big liar.
The evidence is clear: the history of Funan, Chenla, and Angkor derrived from Austronesian people who brought Hinduist culture and religion, from the Austro-Asiatic people who brought rice-farming and Buddhism, and who both mixed with the indigenous Austro-Melanesian people who resided in Cambodia since at least 7,000 years ago.
There were no Thai people, and there were no Lao people during the times of Funan and Chenla. They still resided in the mountains of Southern China being farmers. The people of Yunnan, the Tai people, were tribal people who migrated into the lands of the Mon, Khmer, and Burmese.
Nothing of the earliest history of modern day Cambodia, Vietnam, Thailand, or Burma shows any sign of Tai ethnicity/culture. Anyone who makes that claim should provide the following evidence:
- Signs of Tai culture based on ancient artefacts (which are non-existing)
- Signs of Tai genetic make up among ancient remains (which are non-existing in all remains found in whole of South East Asia before the 13th century).
- Signs of Tai language (first evidence comes from the founding of Sukhotai in the 13th century, but not any sign in the Cham, Mon, Khmer, Burmese, Indonesian inscriptions/written documents)
- Signs of importance of Yunnan (other than being an unsignificant tribal area ruled by Chinese).
- Signs of importance of Tai people before the 13th century (The Tai people who founded Sukhothai were tribal people under the rule of Khmer overlords, but fought themselves free by way of rebellion. Only because they managed to beat their Khmer rulers did the Thai leader of the Sukhothai rebels receive a royal sword from the Khmer king. Only because of this event were they awarded as becoming religious warriors to fight for the Angkorean throne by receiving the sword of Indra (Buddhist warrior God), and did they become a recognized and respected group of people for the first time in history).
Conclusion: Alex has a very creative imagination, but his findings are based on nothing. He should become a fiction-writer.
Statement 1: "Hun-tien was a prince from Yunnan."
Funan was Khmer, Chenla was Khmer, but the origin of Funan was started by a prince from Yunnan? This is the most ridiculous statement you could make in regards to Cambodian history. Yunnan has always been an unsignificant part of China, and the people from Yunnan migrated into Myanmar and Northern Thailand only from the 11th century upward.
To claim that the founder of Funan named Hun Tian in Cambodia came from Yunnan is just as ridiculous as saying that he came from Siberia, Africa, or from the North Pole together with his seven reindeers.
Statement 2: "Land Chenla was Thai-Lao."
This second statement is just as absurd as the first one. Again, the Thai people migrated into Thailand, Lao, and Myanmar from the 11th century upward, and no trace of any Thai/Tai culture or genetics is found from earlier.
The people who did reside in modern day Laos and Thailand were the Mon people. They founded the kingdom of Dvaravati in Thailand, and related people to the Mon brought Austro-Asiatic culture, language, and agriculture with them to Cambodia. They mixed with the indigenous Austro-Melanesian people in Cambodia and founded the Pearic language, from which Khmer language descended. Some also mixed with the Austro-Melanesian people in Southern Thailand/Malaysia, and also with some of the Austronesian people in Vietnam.
Again, this whole history-distortion from this Alex shows he's a big fraud, and he should keep his fairy tales to himself, as he is a big liar.
The evidence is clear: the history of Funan, Chenla, and Angkor derrived from Austronesian people who brought Hinduist culture and religion, from the Austro-Asiatic people who brought rice-farming and Buddhism, and who both mixed with the indigenous Austro-Melanesian people who resided in Cambodia since at least 7,000 years ago.
There were no Thai people, and there were no Lao people during the times of Funan and Chenla. They still resided in the mountains of Southern China being farmers. The people of Yunnan, the Tai people, were tribal people who migrated into the lands of the Mon, Khmer, and Burmese.
Nothing of the earliest history of modern day Cambodia, Vietnam, Thailand, or Burma shows any sign of Tai ethnicity/culture. Anyone who makes that claim should provide the following evidence:
- Signs of Tai culture based on ancient artefacts (which are non-existing)
- Signs of Tai genetic make up among ancient remains (which are non-existing in all remains found in whole of South East Asia before the 13th century).
- Signs of Tai language (first evidence comes from the founding of Sukhotai in the 13th century, but not any sign in the Cham, Mon, Khmer, Burmese, Indonesian inscriptions/written documents)
- Signs of importance of Yunnan (other than being an unsignificant tribal area ruled by Chinese).
- Signs of importance of Tai people before the 13th century (The Tai people who founded Sukhothai were tribal people under the rule of Khmer overlords, but fought themselves free by way of rebellion. Only because they managed to beat their Khmer rulers did the Thai leader of the Sukhothai rebels receive a royal sword from the Khmer king. Only because of this event were they awarded as becoming religious warriors to fight for the Angkorean throne by receiving the sword of Indra (Buddhist warrior God), and did they become a recognized and respected group of people for the first time in history).
Conclusion: Alex has a very creative imagination, but his findings are based on nothing. He should become a fiction-writer.
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Uhh, I think I pretty much showed all evidence that Muay Thai came from Cambodia. you can read my older posts to see why, which are not baseless statements, but all backed up by historic evidence.Steeeeeveeeeeeee wrote: ↑Sun Jan 10, 2021 1:59 pm
Claiming that a certain way of kicking the shit out of another person is Thai/Khmer/Burmese etc is pretty much pointless, The culture evolved over a long time, without a singular inventor.
Just to summarize:
10th century: TCambodian tribes are being divided into different elite clans called Varna. One of the most important military Varna was the Varna Musti Yuddha (Varna of fist-fighters).
13th century: Construction of the Bayon temple with Muay Thai fighters on the pillars. Also the temple Banteay Chmar shows soldiers using Muay Thai techniques referring to 13th century battles.
16th century: Thai king Naresuan conquers Cambodia, and incorporates Khmer soldiers into his armies. After conquering Burma, he places Khmer people all around Thailand as elite warriors. A french diplomat describes a demonstration of Muay Thai in his report.
18th century: The story of Nai Khanom Tom, who has 100% a Khmer name. Nai Khanom Tom means: Leader of the temple-guardians. In Khmer you write like this: នាយ ខ្ញុំ ធំ
What Nai Khanom Tom means in Thai (นายขนมต้ม)? Leader of the coconut-balls.. With other words, it's undoubtedly a Khmer name.
19th century: Muay Thai is still called Muay Boran or Toi Muay, and is popularized by the new Thai monarchy. The provinces where Muay Thai was popularized were all the Thai provinces where Khmer settlements were very important (the most important provinceses were: Lopburi, Khorat, and Chaiya), and where we can find the trace of Khmer language being spoken, Khmer script being written, Khmer culture being practices, and where Khmer temples are still existing.
20th century: Muay Boran/Toi Muay is named Muay Thai, and Khmer history is erased from Thai history.
To claim that Muay Thai originated in any place other than Cambodia (except for India) is like claiming that McDonalds was invented in Russia.
SEAhistory wrote: ↑Wed Jan 13, 2021 3:49 amUhh, I think I pretty much showed all evidence that Muay Thai came from Cambodia. you can read my older posts to see why, which are not baseless statements, but all backed up by historic evidence.Steeeeeveeeeeeee wrote: ↑Sun Jan 10, 2021 1:59 pm
Claiming that a certain way of kicking the shit out of another person is Thai/Khmer/Burmese etc is pretty much pointless, The culture evolved over a long time, without a singular inventor.
Just to summarize:
10th century: TCambodian tribes are being divided into different elite clans called Varna. One of the most important military Varna was the Varna Musti Yuddha (Varna of fist-fighters).
13th century: Construction of the Bayon temple with Muay Thai fighters on the pillars. Also the temple Banteay Chmar shows soldiers using Muay Thai techniques referring to 13th century battles.
16th century: Thai king Naresuan conquers Cambodia, and incorporates Khmer soldiers into his armies. After conquering Burma, he places Khmer people all around Thailand as elite warriors. A french diplomat describes a demonstration of Muay Thai in his report.
18th century: The story of Nai Khanom Tom, who has 100% a Khmer name. Nai Khanom Tom means: Leader of the temple-guardians. In Khmer you write like this: នាយ ខ្ញុំ ធំ
What Nai Khanom Tom means in Thai (นายขนมต้ม)? Leader of the coconut-balls.. With other words, it's undoubtedly a Khmer name.
19th century: Muay Thai is still called Muay Boran or Toi Muay, and is popularized by the new Thai monarchy. The provinces where Muay Thai was popularized were all the Thai provinces where Khmer settlements were very important (the most important provinceses were: Lopburi, Khorat, and Chaiya), and where we can find the trace of Khmer language being spoken, Khmer script being written, Khmer culture being practices, and where Khmer temples are still existing.
20th century: Muay Boran/Toi Muay is named Muay Thai, and Khmer history is erased from Thai history.
To claim that Muay Thai originated in any place other than Cambodia (except for India) is like claiming that McDonalds was invented in Russia.
You might have a competition SEAhistory. This youtube video came out recently. You might cringe if you watch this video. Be prepared to read those comments in his youtube.
Alex Tsui have written a historical book on Muay Thai which he published but his book is no where to be found around the internet because it had limited stock. Alex Tsui have travel to Cambodia In the mid 90's and he claimed that he his friend of Kim Sean who revived bokator and he met him in 2000 but when I ask and direct message Antonio Graceffo who is a direct student of Kim Sean since 2000. He never met the man in his life.
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You might have a competition SEAhistory. This youtube video came out recently. You might cringe if you watch this video. Be prepared to read those comments in his youtube.
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Lol, I have watched the video. Let's go over the statements he made in the video.
Statement 1; " On the walls of Angkor Wat, there are depictions of fighting. Keep in mind, however, that these findings show basic moves, which are a shared basis of all the martial arts of South East Asia, so we have no evidence to say that the Khmer people are the direct developer and creator of these techniques."
Okay, if these techniques are the earliest sign of South East Asian martial arts, and they are depicted on the walls which refer to 12th and 13th century events, then it means that the Khmer royalty and military used South East Asian martial arts in battle. Isn't this major evidence that it originated in Cambodia?
What the creator of the video forgets to mention, is that the Khmer inscriptions also talk about the martial art being founded in the tenth century, with the Varna Musti Yuddha in Western Cambodia (Gamryan), which was then transplanted to Angkor and used by the elite Varna Sañjak.
So we have scriptural evidence of Musti Yuddha being created in Cambodia in the tenth century, and depictions of different temples of the 12th and 13th centuries of the elite warriors using these techniques in battle. This was before any Thai community was ever founded, and no trace of martial arts in the Cham/Javanese/Malay/Sumatran/Mon/Burmese/Puy inscriptions or temples.
Everybody who loves to claim that Muay Boran originated in Thailand always completely ignores the Khmer inscriptions of Cambodia of the tenth century, and pretends that at the time of the 12th/13th centuries, when the images were carved into the Hinduist and Buddhist temples of Cambodia, that Muay Boran was already practiced by any other population in South East Asia. Why do they believe this? This makes no sense.. There is no evidence that any martial art was practiced outside of Cambodia before the 16th century, and also in the 16th century much of Thai culture was still Khmer!
The Thai people built their first temple in the 13th century, and only wrote their first Thai inscription in the 13th century, and they were only able to do so because the Khmer king granted them their independence and royal status. How could the Thai people, who not left a trace of their genetics, language, or culture before the 13th century anywhere in South East Asia could have founded a martial art that was already present in Cambodia in the 10th century? Not only that, Cambodia is the only place in the world where there was an unarmed martial art competition tied to the royal court (in the 10th century already). So without any evidence people can just claim it was present everywhere else?
Let's say that they find Germanic inscriptions from Germany explaining how they played Football and had a Football-competition in the 10th century tied to the German monarchy, and we have evidence that Football was also played in England in the 15th century, the English people can claim without historical evidence that they invented Football?
I am completely mind-blown how people can claim that Muay Boran didn't originate in Cambodia. Isn't historical evidence needed to make such claims? Or do we still have to accept historical claims without any evidence to back it up? I'm confused..
You might have a competition SEAhistory. This youtube video came out recently. You might cringe if you watch this video. Be prepared to read those comments in his youtube.
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Lol, I have watched the video. Let's go over the statements he made in the video.
Statement 1; " On the walls of Angkor Wat, there are depictions of fighting. Keep in mind, however, that these findings show basic moves, which are a shared basis of all the martial arts of South East Asia, so we have no evidence to say that the Khmer people are the direct developer and creator of these techniques."
Okay, if these techniques are the earliest sign of South East Asian martial arts, and they are depicted on the walls which refer to 12th and 13th century events, then it means that the Khmer royalty and military used South East Asian martial arts in battle. Isn't this major evidence that it originated in Cambodia?
What the creator of the video forgets to mention, is that the Khmer inscriptions also talk about the martial art being founded in the tenth century, with the Varna Musti Yuddha in Western Cambodia (Gamryan), which was then transplanted to Angkor and used by the elite Varna Sañjak.
So we have scriptural evidence of Musti Yuddha being created in Cambodia in the tenth century, and depictions of different temples of the 12th and 13th centuries of the elite warriors using these techniques in battle. This was before any Thai community was ever founded, and no trace of martial arts in the Cham/Javanese/Malay/Sumatran/Mon/Burmese/Puy inscriptions or temples.
Everybody who loves to claim that Muay Boran originated in Thailand always completely ignores the Khmer inscriptions of Cambodia of the tenth century, and pretends that at the time of the 12th/13th centuries, when the images were carved into the Hinduist and Buddhist temples of Cambodia, that Muay Boran was already practiced by any other population in South East Asia. Why do they believe this? This makes no sense.. There is no evidence that any martial art was practiced outside of Cambodia before the 16th century, and also in the 16th century much of Thai culture was still Khmer!
The Thai people built their first temple in the 13th century, and only wrote their first Thai inscription in the 13th century, and they were only able to do so because the Khmer king granted them their independence and royal status. How could the Thai people, who not left a trace of their genetics, language, or culture before the 13th century anywhere in South East Asia could have founded a martial art that was already present in Cambodia in the 10th century? Not only that, Cambodia is the only place in the world where there was an unarmed martial art competition tied to the royal court (in the 10th century already). So without any evidence people can just claim it was present everywhere else?
Let's say that they find Germanic inscriptions from Germany explaining how they played Football and had a Football-competition in the 10th century tied to the German monarchy, and we have evidence that Football was also played in England in the 15th century, the English people can claim without historical evidence that they invented Football?
I am completely mind-blown how people can claim that Muay Boran didn't originate in Cambodia. Isn't historical evidence needed to make such claims? Or do we still have to accept historical claims without any evidence to back it up? I'm confused..
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Also, a question for Khmer people who are fluent in Khmer. Isnt the name 'Muay' from the word 'Muay Thai' derrived from the Khmer word 'Muoy'?
I was investigating the Khmer language, and I discovered that the Khmer people use the word 'Muoy', which means 'one'. For example, the name of diamond in Khmer language, is 'Petch Muoy' (ពេជ្រមួយ), which I guess means something as 'number one glass' or something (as diamond is the strongest type of material). Also, I discovered that they still use the term 'Rom Muoy' (រាំមួយ), which I guess means 'number one dance' (as in dance competition or something)
Now, the music to which the Muay Thai fighters dance is called 'Ram Muay' (รำมวย). Is this derrived from the Khmer word 'Rom Muoy'? The word for dance, Ram (รำ) is undoubtedly of Khmer origin, and it shows how 'Ram' became 'Rom', and how 'Muoy' could have became 'Muay'.
Now, one term that is used to describe 'Muay Thai is 'Chok Muay' (ชกมวย', which means 'fighting Muay boxing'). Now, 'Chok' (ชก) is derrived from the Cambodian word 'Kok' (គក់), so could 'Chok Muay' actually been derrived from the Khmer word 'Kok Muoy", which would then mean; number one fight (as in fight competition)?
Any Khmer speakers can help me out?
I was investigating the Khmer language, and I discovered that the Khmer people use the word 'Muoy', which means 'one'. For example, the name of diamond in Khmer language, is 'Petch Muoy' (ពេជ្រមួយ), which I guess means something as 'number one glass' or something (as diamond is the strongest type of material). Also, I discovered that they still use the term 'Rom Muoy' (រាំមួយ), which I guess means 'number one dance' (as in dance competition or something)
Now, the music to which the Muay Thai fighters dance is called 'Ram Muay' (รำมวย). Is this derrived from the Khmer word 'Rom Muoy'? The word for dance, Ram (รำ) is undoubtedly of Khmer origin, and it shows how 'Ram' became 'Rom', and how 'Muoy' could have became 'Muay'.
Now, one term that is used to describe 'Muay Thai is 'Chok Muay' (ชกมวย', which means 'fighting Muay boxing'). Now, 'Chok' (ชก) is derrived from the Cambodian word 'Kok' (គក់), so could 'Chok Muay' actually been derrived from the Khmer word 'Kok Muoy", which would then mean; number one fight (as in fight competition)?
Any Khmer speakers can help me out?
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Should I write a book about the history of Muay Thai, but this time present all evidence and address all claims that can't be proven? I believe it should be done, because the way people are trying to erase the Khmer origin of Muay Thai is ridiculous.kke802 wrote: ↑Sun Jan 17, 2021 7:47 amAlex Tsui have written a historical book on Muay Thai which he published but his book is no where to be found around the internet because it had limited stock. Alex Tsui have travel to Cambodia In the mid 90's and he claimed that he his friend of Kim Sean who revived bokator and he met him in 2000 but when I ask and direct message Antonio Graceffo who is a direct student of Kim Sean since 2000. He never met the man in his life.
I knew that you going to cringe, after watching that video! LOL. I mean you could write a blog and book to dispell false claim. To answer about the language. As for the word "Kok" in khmer it means to-beat or to-hit. When say the word "Kok" it sounds like the word "cook" in english.SEAhistory wrote: ↑Sun Jan 17, 2021 11:48 pmShould I write a book about the history of Muay Thai, but this time present all evidence and address all claims that can't be proven? I believe it should be done, because the way people are trying to erase the Khmer origin of Muay Thai is ridiculous.kke802 wrote: ↑Sun Jan 17, 2021 7:47 amAlex Tsui have written a historical book on Muay Thai which he published but his book is no where to be found around the internet because it had limited stock. Alex Tsui have travel to Cambodia In the mid 90's and he claimed that he his friend of Kim Sean who revived bokator and he met him in 2000 but when I ask and direct message Antonio Graceffo who is a direct student of Kim Sean since 2000. He never met the man in his life.
Ram and Rom is definitely means "dance" for sure. As for Mouy in khmer of course the number 1. I still don't know how the Thai got the word "Muay". I think they probably made up that word because doesn't sound like a word from Sanskrit.
This is the message that the guy that made the origin of Muay boran video.SEAhistory wrote: ↑Sun Jan 17, 2021 11:48 pmShould I write a book about the history of Muay Thai, but this time present all evidence and address all claims that can't be proven? I believe it should be done, because the way people are trying to erase the Khmer origin of Muay Thai is ridiculous.kke802 wrote: ↑Sun Jan 17, 2021 7:47 amAlex Tsui have written a historical book on Muay Thai which he published but his book is no where to be found around the internet because it had limited stock. Alex Tsui have travel to Cambodia In the mid 90's and he claimed that he his friend of Kim Sean who revived bokator and he met him in 2000 but when I ask and direct message Antonio Graceffo who is a direct student of Kim Sean since 2000. He never met the man in his life.
The history info is cringy. SEAHistory, I hope you reading this. just copy and paste the link to URL.
https://books.google.com/books?id=Jb0cA ... ng&f=false
https://books.google.com/books?id=Jb0cA ... ng&f=false
I mean it sounds plausible but I'm not sure anyone really knows. What I have found out though is that the numbers one through 5, including 'muoy', are the same or very similar in the Mon language as well as Vietnamese. In the case of Vietnamese, they may have incorporated those particular numbers from Khmer or other Austroasiatic languages like Chrau, where 'muoy' is also used. https://omniglot.com/language/numbers/chrau.htmSEAhistory wrote: ↑Sun Jan 17, 2021 11:43 pmAlso, a question for Khmer people who are fluent in Khmer. Isnt the name 'Muay' from the word 'Muay Thai' derrived from the Khmer word 'Muoy'?
I was investigating the Khmer language, and I discovered that the Khmer people use the word 'Muoy', which means 'one'. For example, the name of diamond in Khmer language, is 'Petch Muoy' (ពេជ្រមួយ), which I guess means something as 'number one glass' or something (as diamond is the strongest type of material). Also, I discovered that they still use the term 'Rom Muoy' (រាំមួយ), which I guess means 'number one dance' (as in dance competition or something)
Now, the music to which the Muay Thai fighters dance is called 'Ram Muay' (รำมวย). Is this derrived from the Khmer word 'Rom Muoy'? The word for dance, Ram (รำ) is undoubtedly of Khmer origin, and it shows how 'Ram' became 'Rom', and how 'Muoy' could have became 'Muay'.
Now, one term that is used to describe 'Muay Thai is 'Chok Muay' (ชกมวย', which means 'fighting Muay boxing'). Now, 'Chok' (ชก) is derrived from the Cambodian word 'Kok' (គក់), so could 'Chok Muay' actually been derrived from the Khmer word 'Kok Muoy", which would then mean; number one fight (as in fight competition)?
Any Khmer speakers can help me out?