Fire in Dubai
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Fire in Dubai
How can a modern building allow a fire to spread like this?
I hope folk are OK
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-35207451
I hope folk are OK
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-35207451
Nothing but an opinionated tourist. The Pope spends more time in countries than I do ! It is also not my place to comment on a gentleman's dress. A real 23 minute wonder, that obviously knows little about ovens and cooking in Cambodia.
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- MerkinMaker
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And surprise surprise, it stays upright and doesn't fall on top of itself in a neat little pile like World Trade 7.
I like this quote:
"I only took my valuables, i.e. my phone, my iPad and my mother."
"I only took my valuables, i.e. my phone, my iPad and my mother."
pew, pew, pew, pew!
This fire looks very similar to a fire in a high rise in Melbourne last year. I suspect that this building was also clad on the outside with Chinese aluminium composite panels. They are a copy of the excellent alucabond but unlike alucabond they are highly flammable. The Melbourne fire was caused by a cigarette butt and spread up eleven floors in about five minutes.
Unfortunately for the owners no one is responsible and they will share a repair bill of about 3 million. An aluminium panel fire on the outside of a concrete building does not compare with an airliner full of fuel crashing into the interior of a poorly built steel building at 400 MPH.
Sorry Starkmonster, your conspiracy theory is just that. But the latest explanation of the explosions in the twin towers was the molten aluminium from the planes reacting with water from the sprinkler systems. Alcoa has experimented in a lab with 30kgs of aluminium reacting with 20 liters of water. The resulting explosion left a hole 30 meters in diameter and nothing left of the lab!
The planes that crashed there had 30 tons of aluminium in them so it would gave been a big bang.
If builders continue to use crap Chinese building materials then it might be time to put sprinklers and smoke detectors on the outside of buildings. Anyone buying an apartment in a high rise should pay attention to the buildings cladding. The Melbourne product was called Alucabest. Great name!
Unfortunately for the owners no one is responsible and they will share a repair bill of about 3 million. An aluminium panel fire on the outside of a concrete building does not compare with an airliner full of fuel crashing into the interior of a poorly built steel building at 400 MPH.
Sorry Starkmonster, your conspiracy theory is just that. But the latest explanation of the explosions in the twin towers was the molten aluminium from the planes reacting with water from the sprinkler systems. Alcoa has experimented in a lab with 30kgs of aluminium reacting with 20 liters of water. The resulting explosion left a hole 30 meters in diameter and nothing left of the lab!
The planes that crashed there had 30 tons of aluminium in them so it would gave been a big bang.
If builders continue to use crap Chinese building materials then it might be time to put sprinklers and smoke detectors on the outside of buildings. Anyone buying an apartment in a high rise should pay attention to the buildings cladding. The Melbourne product was called Alucabest. Great name!
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- MerkinMaker
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World Trade 7 didn't get hit by a plane.ken svay wrote:Sorry Starkmonster, your conspiracy theory is just that. But the latest explanation of the explosions in the twin towers was the molten aluminium from the planes reacting with water from the sprinkler systems. Alcoa has experimented in a lab with 30kgs of aluminium reacting with 20 liters of water. The resulting explosion left a hole 30 meters in diameter and nothing left of the lab!
The planes that crashed there had 30 tons of aluminium in them so it would gave been a big bang.
Google it, there is a credible explanation now. I knew that night that the steel buildings would fall down, it was just quicker than I expected. Anyone who still believes in the silly conspiracy theories is nether an engineer nor a building professional. I was amused tonight over facebook criticism of a couple who took a selfie with the burning Dubai building in the background.
The real criminals are those who use flammable cheap Chinese cladding. After the fire in Melbourne they have looked for other buildings with the same flammable cladding. Unfortunately they have found a major hospital and a new cancer treatment centre where builders have used the same crap.
People should be jailed over this but as is the way no one is actually responsible.
The real criminals are those who use flammable cheap Chinese cladding. After the fire in Melbourne they have looked for other buildings with the same flammable cladding. Unfortunately they have found a major hospital and a new cancer treatment centre where builders have used the same crap.
People should be jailed over this but as is the way no one is actually responsible.
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- MerkinMaker
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I take it you haven't seen this: http://www.ae911truth.org/. It's 2,500 architects and engineers that don't agree with you, but that's neither here non there as science isn't decided by consensus.ken svay wrote:Anyone who still believes in the silly conspiracy theories is nether an engineer nor a building professional
World Trade 7 had isolated fires, it hadn't been hit by a plane and it came down at free fall. There was molten steel in the wreckage which is impossible when only hydrocarbons are the fuel source. The melting temperature of steel used in construction is 1500°c, the maximum heat produced by burning hydrocarbons on oxygen is 1000°c. Also nano-thermite was found in the dust particles.
It was, and still is the only steel skyscraper to have ever collapsed due to fire. All other skyscrapers which have caught fire didn't collapse, some burned completely on every floor in raging inferno's that lasted days and still maintained their structural integrity. Yet World Trade 7 with isolated fires came down in a matter of hours.
I've never had time to really go through the available data, but after doing some reading there certainly seems to be enough there for the U.S government to put forward a proper response. Just releasing wreckage samples that have a clear chain of authority for testing for nano-thermite, a proper explanation of the heat source that caused the thermal expansion of floor columns and how the failure of a single column (as stated in the official report) resulted in total collapse at free fall.
Hey starkie, I hope you realise now that the cladding was to blame in the Dubai fire making you initial post look a little silly. I do know something about buildings and materials having read up on the cladding in Melbourne. They have now found other buildings with the cladding including a major hospital and a new cancer centre.
As for the steel in the WTC, it doesn't have to melt it just has to lose it's strength which happens at a much lower temperature. And what burnt in the towers besides jet fuel was carpet, paper, office furniture etc. I remember a high rise office fire in Perth years ago and the fire brigade estimated incredible temperatures between the slabs. I watched a safety video years ago comparing timber roof framing with steel. The timber beams initially burnt and then turned to charcoal and smoldered but kept their integrity. The steel beams sagged and collapsed much more quickly.
That's why on the night I knew that the buildings would come down. I remember those buildings went up in record time partly because they were built on port authority land with lax building codes. The fire stairs were inadequate for this reason. Later I saw a doco where it was revealed that the floor trusses which radiated out from the core had only one bolt at each end, unforgivable and asking for trouble. The spray on asbestos fireproofing had fallen off in big chunks above the ceilings as well, as it always did.
And the core which nowadays in most countries is slip form, continuous concrete was steel and eight layers of plasterboard - that's a sad joke.
A mate had the slip form business in Dubai or somewhere and at one stage had 63 slip forms going at one time. He sold out for 35 million only weeks before the GFC and the buyer was spewing!!!
But the explosives theory always makes me chuckle. The poor bloody cleaners running around at night vacuuming carpets around all those men with hammer drills making a mess. And then there was the crew running tens of kilometers of cable through the ceilings. Those ceiling tiles are a bastard to get back in without breaking the corners off and they too make a mess of the carpets. And pulling cables damages the grid as well, main bars can take hours to put back in. It's just a nonsense.
But if you want to read something really strange have a look at the book And we were heroes once and young. One of the brave officers featured in the book later became head of security for a corporation on the upper floors of one of the towers. He ran evacuation drills regularly because he believed that someone would fly a plane into his tower! As it turned out the plane hit his floors and most of the employees died.
Why this odd fact has never been more publicised I don't know.
As for the steel in the WTC, it doesn't have to melt it just has to lose it's strength which happens at a much lower temperature. And what burnt in the towers besides jet fuel was carpet, paper, office furniture etc. I remember a high rise office fire in Perth years ago and the fire brigade estimated incredible temperatures between the slabs. I watched a safety video years ago comparing timber roof framing with steel. The timber beams initially burnt and then turned to charcoal and smoldered but kept their integrity. The steel beams sagged and collapsed much more quickly.
That's why on the night I knew that the buildings would come down. I remember those buildings went up in record time partly because they were built on port authority land with lax building codes. The fire stairs were inadequate for this reason. Later I saw a doco where it was revealed that the floor trusses which radiated out from the core had only one bolt at each end, unforgivable and asking for trouble. The spray on asbestos fireproofing had fallen off in big chunks above the ceilings as well, as it always did.
And the core which nowadays in most countries is slip form, continuous concrete was steel and eight layers of plasterboard - that's a sad joke.
A mate had the slip form business in Dubai or somewhere and at one stage had 63 slip forms going at one time. He sold out for 35 million only weeks before the GFC and the buyer was spewing!!!
But the explosives theory always makes me chuckle. The poor bloody cleaners running around at night vacuuming carpets around all those men with hammer drills making a mess. And then there was the crew running tens of kilometers of cable through the ceilings. Those ceiling tiles are a bastard to get back in without breaking the corners off and they too make a mess of the carpets. And pulling cables damages the grid as well, main bars can take hours to put back in. It's just a nonsense.
But if you want to read something really strange have a look at the book And we were heroes once and young. One of the brave officers featured in the book later became head of security for a corporation on the upper floors of one of the towers. He ran evacuation drills regularly because he believed that someone would fly a plane into his tower! As it turned out the plane hit his floors and most of the employees died.
Why this odd fact has never been more publicised I don't know.
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- MerkinMaker
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The cause of the fire is neither here nor there. The point is building 7 is the only steel skyscraper to ever fail as a result of fire, and the fire wasn't even in the top ten in terms of intensity.
Thermite isn't an explosive, it's aluminium oxide and usually used to melt through railway track. Nano thermite that was discovered in the dust at ground zero is the military grade equivalent, that does far more with far less.
Molten steel was also discovered in the wreckage, filmed leaking out of the building prior to failure and there are numerous fire fighters on record saying they saw it flowing down the stairwells.
I've got no theory about what happened, my only question is what melted the steel?
Thermite isn't an explosive, it's aluminium oxide and usually used to melt through railway track. Nano thermite that was discovered in the dust at ground zero is the military grade equivalent, that does far more with far less.
Molten steel was also discovered in the wreckage, filmed leaking out of the building prior to failure and there are numerous fire fighters on record saying they saw it flowing down the stairwells.
I've got no theory about what happened, my only question is what melted the steel?
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Just as well the rubble got quickly sent to India for recycling. Would hate to let those pesky independent investigators sample any evidence.starkmonster wrote:
I've got no theory about what happened, my only question is what melted the steel?
There's that bridge overpass in California that collapsed after a fuel tanker crashed underneath. Bridges are usually made of concrete and steel not chocolate.
Still. Facts and all that.
Thermite was used after the buildings fell. It's a common fact trotted out by lunatics and the dim.
Still. Facts and all that.
Thermite was used after the buildings fell. It's a common fact trotted out by lunatics and the dim.
pew, pew, pew, pew!
A lot of the structural members of the buildings were stored in a huge hanger for examination not sent off for recycling. And if a handful of academics and engineers follow a conspiracy theory that is really a reflection of Americans fondness for ignorance. I wonder if these same people also deny evolution? Are you aware Starkie that there are over two million practicing engineers in the US, over a hundred thousand architects and who knows how many alleged academics.
And the internets great capacity for nonsense is also shown by this fire, the building is of reinforced concrete as are virtually all modern high rises in the ME. Its cheaper to build with concrete, the buildings are fireproof, quieter inside and move less in high winds. And as for the claim that the only steel frame buildings to collapse in a fire then one must consider that they are also the only buildings in the world to be hit by 250 ton jetliners travelling at 500MPH!!!
And the thermite claim is complete bollocks. I tire of ignorance about all this by people who have never worked forty floors up hanging off a building.
And this building fire in the ME was started by a cigarette butt, exactly the same circumstances as the Melbourne fire as pointed out in my first post. Its good to be right sometimes.
And the internets great capacity for nonsense is also shown by this fire, the building is of reinforced concrete as are virtually all modern high rises in the ME. Its cheaper to build with concrete, the buildings are fireproof, quieter inside and move less in high winds. And as for the claim that the only steel frame buildings to collapse in a fire then one must consider that they are also the only buildings in the world to be hit by 250 ton jetliners travelling at 500MPH!!!
And the thermite claim is complete bollocks. I tire of ignorance about all this by people who have never worked forty floors up hanging off a building.
And this building fire in the ME was started by a cigarette butt, exactly the same circumstances as the Melbourne fire as pointed out in my first post. Its good to be right sometimes.
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