Yeah, it sux when the employer keads the negotiation by having the employee have first bid ... esp. when the employer is a seasoned salesperson.Miguelito wrote:Agreed and you can certainly shoot yourself in foot, especially when they ask "how much are you currently making" or "how much are you expecting to get?" I think it's certainly logical to ask here what people think a reasonable salary for a position is.violet wrote:Am I wrong in thinking phuketdick2000 has never had a position where he had to negotiate salary and therefore obviously doesn’t understand that it is quite common not to state salary in many job advertisments and not the usual practise to ask what the salary is in the pre/early stages of a job application. It can actually cost a person a chance of securing the job to ask that at the ‘wrong’ time.
I understand, and appreciate, that the person (...cough) who set up the Cambodia Jobs FB group has a policy that salary/expected salary should be stated in posts but it really isn’t done all over the world ( yes, i realise that is no argument for operating differently)
Salary for Dean of the Hospitality & Tourism School?
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So PR’s comment was to ask for salary... you ridiculed this and now agree that you need to know the range. How do you know the range if you don’t ask the people who know - not some forum of random folk.violet wrote:Phuket2006 wrote:Kinda correct, any jobs i have had, ( except those i had when i was under 30 and never in se asia) , they came to me and i told them what i wanted.violet wrote:Am I wrong in thinking phuketdick2000 has never had a position where he had to negotiate salary and therefore obviously doesn’t understand that it is quite common not to state salary in many job advertisments and not the usual practise to ask what the salary is in the pre/early stages of a job application. It can actually cost a person a chance of securing the job to ask that at the ‘wrong’ time.
I understand, and appreciate, that the person (...cough) who set up the Cambodia Jobs FB group has a policy that salary/expected salary should be stated in posts but it really isn’t done all over the world ( yes, i realise that is no argument for operating differently)
so ur saying u apply for a job not knowing what they are going to pay you? Wow
My point is it isn’t an uncommon situation in the corporate world, so a person needs to have a good idea of what the salary range is and then negotiate.
I recruited many people in the U.K. in the corporate world. This question, which often was asked prior to interview shortlisting, was always viewed neutrally.
Ambition is positive. People don’t work for the love of the job, people work because they need to. Remuneration is an important part of the job offer.
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One can switch industries when one reaches the top of one's career.No disrespect intended but the fact that you switched industries proves you're no real hospitality professional.
I worked as a space & satellite design consultant for 13 years and switched industries when I sold out for $2.2M.
I worked in the H&T industry for 10 years and left that sector after I had built my 4th successful hotel.
Now I work in the education sector, including teaching H&T. The role calls for someone with both H&T and teaching experience (I doubt if they need my rocket scientist experience LoL).
As you say, a 'pro' would expect a $4k salary. But I don't think they are looking for a 'pro'.
In any case, I've dropped a PM to the recruiter on LinkedIn to ask about the overall employment package - strange that no details of the benefits of the job are provided).
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[quote="Miguelito"][quote="gavinmac"]How did you blow $2.2 million? Ex-wives?[/quote]
He spent it all on booze and women, and wasted the rest.[/quote]
Always the same
He spent it all on booze and women, and wasted the rest.[/quote]
Always the same
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ផោមក្លិនស្អុយ wrote:So PR’s comment was to ask for salary... you ridiculed this and now agree that you need to know the range. How do you know the range if you don’t ask the people who know - not some forum of random folk.violet wrote:Phuket2006 wrote:Kinda correct, any jobs i have had, ( except those i had when i was under 30 and never in se asia) , they came to me and i told them what i wanted.violet wrote:Am I wrong in thinking phuketdick2000 has never had a position where he had to negotiate salary and therefore obviously doesn’t understand that it is quite common not to state salary in many job advertisments and not the usual practise to ask what the salary is in the pre/early stages of a job application. It can actually cost a person a chance of securing the job to ask that at the ‘wrong’ time.
I understand, and appreciate, that the person (...cough) who set up the Cambodia Jobs FB group has a policy that salary/expected salary should be stated in posts but it really isn’t done all over the world ( yes, i realise that is no argument for operating differently)
so ur saying u apply for a job not knowing what they are going to pay you? Wow
My point is it isn’t an uncommon situation in the corporate world, so a person needs to have a good idea of what the salary range is and then negotiate.
I recruited many people in the U.K. in the corporate world. This question, which often was asked prior to interview shortlisting, was always viewed neutrally.
Ambition is positive. People don’t work for the love of the job, people work because they need to. Remuneration is an important part of the job offer.
Um your ability to follow along seems to have been impaired. I did not remotely ridicule the OP. I ridiculed Richard asking here is completely different to asking the job advertiser.
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And your ability to follow is non existent. I never said you ridiculed the OP. What is the point of debating with you. You seem best suited to the BSCW thread.violet wrote:ផោមក្លិនស្អុយ wrote:So PR’s comment was to ask for salary... you ridiculed this and now agree that you need to know the range. How do you know the range if you don’t ask the people who know - not some forum of random folk.violet wrote:Phuket2006 wrote:Kinda correct, any jobs i have had, ( except those i had when i was under 30 and never in se asia) , they came to me and i told them what i wanted.violet wrote:Am I wrong in thinking phuketdick2000 has never had a position where he had to negotiate salary and therefore obviously doesn’t understand that it is quite common not to state salary in many job advertisments and not the usual practise to ask what the salary is in the pre/early stages of a job application. It can actually cost a person a chance of securing the job to ask that at the ‘wrong’ time.
I understand, and appreciate, that the person (...cough) who set up the Cambodia Jobs FB group has a policy that salary/expected salary should be stated in posts but it really isn’t done all over the world ( yes, i realise that is no argument for operating differently)
so ur saying u apply for a job not knowing what they are going to pay you? Wow
My point is it isn’t an uncommon situation in the corporate world, so a person needs to have a good idea of what the salary range is and then negotiate.
I recruited many people in the U.K. in the corporate world. This question, which often was asked prior to interview shortlisting, was always viewed neutrally.
Ambition is positive. People don’t work for the love of the job, people work because they need to. Remuneration is an important part of the job offer.
Um your ability to follow along seems to have been impaired. I did not remotely ridicule the OP. I ridiculed Richard asking here is completely different to asking the job advertiser.
I questioned the point of asking here - there is no issue with asking the job advertiser as PhuketRichard suggested.
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Fuck me, even JackRossi's got a sockpuppet !
simon44 wrote:One can switch industries when one reaches the top of one's career.
No disrespect intended but the fact that you switched industries proves you're no real hospitality professional.
I worked as a space & satellite design consultant for 13 years and switched industries when I sold out for $2.2M.
I worked in the H&T industry for 10 years and left that sector after I had built my 4th successful hotel.
Now I work in the education sector, including teaching H&T. The role calls for someone with both H&T and teaching experience (I doubt if they need my rocket scientist experience LoL).
As you say, a 'pro' would expect a $4k salary. But I don't think they are looking for a 'pro'.
In any case, I've dropped a PM to the recruiter on LinkedIn to ask about the overall employment package - strange that no details of the benefits of the job are provided).
"Everywhere we go .. people want to know ...who we are... where we come from !"
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Are you aware that in some countries salaries are not included in advertisements (or at least they didn't use to)? My experiences are different to yours, which does not make me wrong.ផោមក្លិនស្អុយ wrote:And your ability to follow is non existent. I never said you ridiculed the OP. What is the point of debating with you. You seem best suited to the BSCW thread.violet wrote:ផោមក្លិនស្អុយ wrote:So PR’s comment was to ask for salary... you ridiculed this and now agree that you need to know the range. How do you know the range if you don’t ask the people who know - not some forum of random folk.violet wrote:Phuket2006 wrote:Kinda correct, any jobs i have had, ( except those i had when i was under 30 and never in se asia) , they came to me and i told them what i wanted.violet wrote:Am I wrong in thinking phuketdick2000 has never had a position where he had to negotiate salary and therefore obviously doesn’t understand that it is quite common not to state salary in many job advertisments and not the usual practise to ask what the salary is in the pre/early stages of a job application. It can actually cost a person a chance of securing the job to ask that at the ‘wrong’ time.
I understand, and appreciate, that the person (...cough) who set up the Cambodia Jobs FB group has a policy that salary/expected salary should be stated in posts but it really isn’t done all over the world ( yes, i realise that is no argument for operating differently)
so ur saying u apply for a job not knowing what they are going to pay you? Wow
My point is it isn’t an uncommon situation in the corporate world, so a person needs to have a good idea of what the salary range is and then negotiate.
I recruited many people in the U.K. in the corporate world. This question, which often was asked prior to interview shortlisting, was always viewed neutrally.
Ambition is positive. People don’t work for the love of the job, people work because they need to. Remuneration is an important part of the job offer.
Um your ability to follow along seems to have been impaired. I did not remotely ridicule the OP. I ridiculed Richard asking here is completely different to asking the job advertiser.
I questioned the point of asking here - there is no issue with asking the job advertiser as PhuketRichard suggested.
PS I agree. The bscw thread is a talent of mine.
The mind is not a vessel to be filled, but a fire to be kindled.
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LoL sort of. 50% of the money was held in company shares of the long-established company (UK household name) that bought my business. I wasn't allowed to sell them for 2 years - that company went bust after 12 months, (not as a result of my involvement, I hasten to add. I did get a $150K pay-off).How did you blow $2.2 million? Ex-wives?
Of the remaining $1.1M, I spent about $600K to build a nice big house near London in 5 acres of land, with a vineyard and paddocks for horses. when I divorced my first wife, I voluntarily gave her the property,because she was looking after our 3 kids.
I moved to Thailand and used the rest to build my first hotel at Phuket Airport. That was a very successful business that was totally fcuked by the actions of my second wife.
Oh well...
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Yes I’m aware.violet wrote:Are you aware that in some countries salaries are not included in advertisements (or at least they didn't use to)? My experiences are different to yours, which does not make me wrong.ផោមក្លិនស្អុយ wrote:And your ability to follow is non existent. I never said you ridiculed the OP. What is the point of debating with you. You seem best suited to the BSCW thread.violet wrote:ផោមក្លិនស្អុយ wrote:So PR’s comment was to ask for salary... you ridiculed this and now agree that you need to know the range. How do you know the range if you don’t ask the people who know - not some forum of random folk.violet wrote:Phuket2006 wrote:Kinda correct, any jobs i have had, ( except those i had when i was under 30 and never in se asia) , they came to me and i told them what i wanted.violet wrote:Am I wrong in thinking phuketdick2000 has never had a position where he had to negotiate salary and therefore obviously doesn’t understand that it is quite common not to state salary in many job advertisments and not the usual practise to ask what the salary is in the pre/early stages of a job application. It can actually cost a person a chance of securing the job to ask that at the ‘wrong’ time.
I understand, and appreciate, that the person (...cough) who set up the Cambodia Jobs FB group has a policy that salary/expected salary should be stated in posts but it really isn’t done all over the world ( yes, i realise that is no argument for operating differently)
so ur saying u apply for a job not knowing what they are going to pay you? Wow
My point is it isn’t an uncommon situation in the corporate world, so a person needs to have a good idea of what the salary range is and then negotiate.
I recruited many people in the U.K. in the corporate world. This question, which often was asked prior to interview shortlisting, was always viewed neutrally.
Ambition is positive. People don’t work for the love of the job, people work because they need to. Remuneration is an important part of the job offer.
Um your ability to follow along seems to have been impaired. I did not remotely ridicule the OP. I ridiculed Richard asking here is completely different to asking the job advertiser.
I questioned the point of asking here - there is no issue with asking the job advertiser as PhuketRichard suggested.
PS I agree. The bscw thread is a talent of mine.
In the U.K. I recruited many staff in the corporate world - just because it isn’t included doesn’t mean you can’t ask.
If it is included you get loads of redundant applications from folks thinking ‘oh I’d like that salary’.
If it isn’t included you get applications from people who consider themselves a fit for the job.
If I am recruiting someone and they don’t ask about the salary then that is a red flag to me. People (generally) work because they need to, not because they want to work. Remuneration is one of the most significant parts of the job.
You say you shouldn’t ask the advertiser what the salary is - that is stupid advice. Maybe it’s not wrong, but it’s silly.
Send a CV to the employer with a cover letter (everyone should have an up to date CV). Tell them that you are interested and have the skills and experiences for the role, and say prior to moving forward with the application could you enquire what the salary range is.
Asking about the salary is a neutral question. It won’t (shouldn’t) be viewed negatively. PR’s advice (which you mocked) was spot on.
She'll use 300 words to say that she was misunderstood, it was not was she meant etc.ផោមក្លិនស្អុយ wrote: You say you shouldn’t ask the advertiser what the salary is - that is stupid advice. Maybe it’s not wrong, but it’s silly.
Asking about the salary is a neutral question. It won’t (shouldn’t) be viewed negatively. PR’s advice (which you mocked) was spot on.
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