Health Care Causes Finland Government Collapse
- Hot_Pink_Urinal_Mint
- I need professional help
- Reactions: 71
- Posts: 1035
- Joined: Tue Nov 10, 2009 3:19 pm
- Location: Right behind you
Call me a conspiracy theorist but I'm beginning to think that national health care services around the world are intentionally being mismanaged so they can be privatised.
- Sonic1
- I need professional help
- Reactions: 89
- Posts: 1034
- Joined: Sat Nov 08, 2014 5:46 am
- Location: On the edge of the Milky Way...
Bernie Sanders going on Fox news and getting a rousing show of hands when the audience is asked if they would forgo private insurance for a gov't run insurance. Has the birthers noodle a bit bent. video in link. "Fox News host Bret Baier got a response he didn’t seem to expect during the Fox News Town Hall With Bernie Sanders Monday night.
When he asked the audience members if they’d be willing to forgo private insurance for a “government-run system,” a significant number cheered and clapped their hands.
Apparently unfazed by the response, Baier turned his question to Sanders, asking: “There’s 180 million people on private insurance—they would be lost, right? To your system?”
“Bret, fair question. I know that’s what the right wing throws out, so let me answer it. “Millions of people every single year lose their health insurance. You know why? They get fired or they quit and they go to another employer. Every year, millions of workers wake up in the morning and their employer has changed the insurance they have."
“Now what we’re talking about actually is stability—that when you have a Medicare for All, it is there now, it is there in the future,” Sanders continued. From Newsweek. https://www.newsweek.com/bernie-sanders ... re-1397616
When he asked the audience members if they’d be willing to forgo private insurance for a “government-run system,” a significant number cheered and clapped their hands.
Apparently unfazed by the response, Baier turned his question to Sanders, asking: “There’s 180 million people on private insurance—they would be lost, right? To your system?”
“Bret, fair question. I know that’s what the right wing throws out, so let me answer it. “Millions of people every single year lose their health insurance. You know why? They get fired or they quit and they go to another employer. Every year, millions of workers wake up in the morning and their employer has changed the insurance they have."
“Now what we’re talking about actually is stability—that when you have a Medicare for All, it is there now, it is there in the future,” Sanders continued. From Newsweek. https://www.newsweek.com/bernie-sanders ... re-1397616
Freedom is not a state. It is an act. It is not some enchanted garden perched high on a distant plateau.. Freedom is a continuous action we all must take, and each generation must do its part to create an even more fair, more just society.-John Lewis
-
- I live above an internet cafe
- Reactions: 0
- Posts: 190
- Joined: Sun Mar 03, 2019 8:47 pm
Johnsell50 wrote: ↑Thu Apr 18, 2019 8:27 pmFacts are often skewed by politics, and when the left controls most of the media, most of the facts are going to be skewed to the left. So there are definitely left wing talking points and you use many of them. And again, 1 year +- is not a big deal. And how are they planning to fix their healthcare without killing off some seniors, are lowering benefits, or taking more money from an already tax challenged population?Sonic1 wrote: ↑Thu Apr 18, 2019 7:02 pmFacts are not left or right. They are in fact living longer while paying half, like the rest of the modern, western world.Johnsell50 wrote: ↑Thu Apr 18, 2019 2:23 pmAnd always the left wing talking points... and they live longer by 1 year +- big deal! And that extra year you say is what is causing the government collapse?
Immigration?
-
- I live above an internet cafe
- Reactions: 0
- Posts: 190
- Joined: Sun Mar 03, 2019 8:47 pm
Well certainly Thatcherisms plan was exactly that.Hot_Pink_Urinal_Mint wrote: ↑Thu Apr 18, 2019 9:49 pmCall me a conspiracy theorist but I'm beginning to think that national health care services around the world are intentionally being mismanaged so they can be privatised.
She/they fucked the NHS so badly that it will never recover. Cost of machines apparently.
If you remember, her government reorganized the NHS by sacking ancillary staff and then re-employing them via expensive agencies. They also employed more managers and sub-managers. Lots and lots of them, whilst reducing the amount of doctors and nurses, shutting down wards, and get this, building brand new public hospitals with tax payers money then selling them off at discount prices to private healthcare companies: amongst other things. All Conservative initiated.
I for one, am very surprised that the UK still has a national health service. I thought it was going down a long time ago. I expect the Tories will eventually kill it.
-
- I have some social problems
- Reactions: 0
- Posts: 518
- Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2019 10:49 am
All of the shining examples of government run health care systems around the world (HIC) should be enough to make most, if not all working Americans, very wary of any such system. It is sad to see that some are still so highly indoctrinated by their left wing colleges and news sources to still believe government can run anything effectively. Haven't they been screwed enough? The only thing these programs do is raise costs for workers to pay for those who don't want to work. It is a simple enough equation even Democrats should understand.
"A day without learning is a day lost!"
- Hot_Pink_Urinal_Mint
- I need professional help
- Reactions: 71
- Posts: 1035
- Joined: Tue Nov 10, 2009 3:19 pm
- Location: Right behind you
You seem to think that the US has a Free Market Medical System...
Here is how it actually works:
Here is how it actually works:
https://mises.org/wire/do-we-have-free- ... cal-system
Each year a committee of the American Medical Association recommends a set of prices to Medicare. The committee is dominated by medical specialists, so specialists tend to do particularly well.
Medicare is actually run, not by government, but by private insurance companies, and these companies adopt these prices for private insurance purposes as well.
Congress further sweetened this price controlled system for hospitals by requiring Medicare to pay more for the same service if provided by hospital employees.
This has inevitably led to local hospitals buying out most of the surrounding private medical practices, which has in turn created local medical service monopolies that feed patients to the hospital for its more costly services.
These monopolies are further sweetened for doctors by legally barring nurses, chiropractors, four-year trained naturopathic doctors, and other health professionals from using the full extent of their medical training. In this way, the supply of medical services is constrained, which further raises prices.
Notwithstanding all the preceding, it is not the American Medical Association, which is itself financed by a monopoly in medical coding granted by the US government department of Health and Human Services, nor the hospitals, nor the medical doctors as a group that actually run the medical system.
The top spot is reserved for the drug companies, which in turn share their largesse with the AMA, doctors, medical journals, media companies, and especially with politicians.
In return, drug companies are granted a series of powerful monopolies, monopolies that drive up the cost of medicine and, given the employer role in healthcare, destroy jobs, raises, and economic opportunity as well.
First, drug companies claim a legal monopoly when they patent a drug. The drug research may have been done by the government or by a university using government money but it doesn’t matter. The grant of monopoly stands.
Then the drug company takes the patented medication through the FDA approval process (at an average cost of $3 billion over what can easily be a decade).
Drug companies do not object to this ordeal, because the stiff price both eliminates any competition from un-patentable treatments and also flows into the salaries of FDA employees, who consequently tend to take a friendly view of drug companies and zealously guard the legal exclusivity of their products.
FDA enforcement includes armed raids and threats of a lifetime in jail for any producer who makes medical claims without permission. Even cherry and walnut growers have been threatened.
The agency takes the position that cherry and walnut producers, to make health claims for any of their products, they must first turn them into drugs through the drug approval process, thus driving up prices for all patients.
No, this is not a free market system nor anything remotely close to one. In a genuine free market system, prices reflect the decisions of consumers. Producers who solve significant problems are rewarded with high prices and profits.
High prices and profits in turn attract lots of competition. The competition not only prevents monopoly. It also improves quality and very importantly increases supply, which is the only sustainable way to reduce prices. Consumers then get better medicine and ever lower prices.
Producers dislike competition, and therefore try to buy government help in manipulating or fixing prices. This is more easily accomplished in medicine, because it can all be done under the guise of government “protecting” consumers when actually the consumers are being fleeced and impoverished.
There are many honest and dedicated medical professionals sincerely devoted to the healing arts. But they are trapped in a system that can more accurately be described as a crony capitalist nightmare.
-
- I live above an internet cafe
- Reactions: 0
- Posts: 190
- Joined: Sun Mar 03, 2019 8:47 pm
Fixed that for you John.Johnsell50 wrote: ↑Fri Apr 19, 2019 6:24 amAll of the shining examples of government run health care systems around the world (HIC) should be enough to make most, if not all working Americans, very very wary of any right wing governments.. .
-
- I have some social problems
- Reactions: 0
- Posts: 518
- Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2019 10:49 am
[quote=Hot_Pink_Urinal_Mint post_id=966675 time=1555631121 user_id=26922]
You seem to think that the US has a Free Market Medical System...
Here is how it actually works:
I know that the system is nowhere near perfect. I was a private duty pediatric nurse for 30 years. Almost all of my care was given to very ill very young children; think trachs, vents, feeding tubes etc. In the beginning most was supplied to patients covered by insurance. In the latter half, almost all was given to Medicaid patients and primarily to illegal immigrant children. Most of it was also given to children who would never recover from genetic birth defects. Children who would never walk, talk, speak, eat, or basically do anything for or by themselves. I worked with a lot of SMA 12 patients whose parents were given the choice to put their children on ventilators or not; knowing that when ventilated the children could live for decades, never being able to basically do anything, or without the vent., would pass away within a year. I was with 2 such children when they passed and It was so much easier on both the family and the children. I can understand an American family devasted by health care costs. I have seen them with my own eyes and I have no problem with our health care system paying for this. I do have a problem with our heathcare system paying bills for non-citizens, millions of them, most who will never contribute to the tax base that pays for this at all, and for Americans who either refuse to work, or work off the books so everyone else has to pay for healthcare education etc. for their progeny.
Yes, it is not perfect, but I still prefer it to the choice, a system that will bankrupt the country and have our great, great grandchildren paying for that mistake.
You seem to think that the US has a Free Market Medical System...
Here is how it actually works:
I know that the system is nowhere near perfect. I was a private duty pediatric nurse for 30 years. Almost all of my care was given to very ill very young children; think trachs, vents, feeding tubes etc. In the beginning most was supplied to patients covered by insurance. In the latter half, almost all was given to Medicaid patients and primarily to illegal immigrant children. Most of it was also given to children who would never recover from genetic birth defects. Children who would never walk, talk, speak, eat, or basically do anything for or by themselves. I worked with a lot of SMA 12 patients whose parents were given the choice to put their children on ventilators or not; knowing that when ventilated the children could live for decades, never being able to basically do anything, or without the vent., would pass away within a year. I was with 2 such children when they passed and It was so much easier on both the family and the children. I can understand an American family devasted by health care costs. I have seen them with my own eyes and I have no problem with our health care system paying for this. I do have a problem with our heathcare system paying bills for non-citizens, millions of them, most who will never contribute to the tax base that pays for this at all, and for Americans who either refuse to work, or work off the books so everyone else has to pay for healthcare education etc. for their progeny.
Yes, it is not perfect, but I still prefer it to the choice, a system that will bankrupt the country and have our great, great grandchildren paying for that mistake.
"A day without learning is a day lost!"
-
- I have some social problems
- Reactions: 0
- Posts: 518
- Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2019 10:49 am
I prefer it the way it was written, and intended.Johnsell50 wrote: ↑Fri Apr 19, 2019 6:24 amAll of the shining examples of government run health care systems around the world (HIC) should be enough to make most, if not all working Americans, very wary of any such system. It is sad to see that some are still so highly indoctrinated by their left wing colleges and news sources to still believe government can run anything effectively. Haven't they been screwed enough? The only thing these programs do is raise costs for workers to pay for those who don't want to work. It is a simple enough equation even Democrats should understand.
"A day without learning is a day lost!"
- Hot_Pink_Urinal_Mint
- I need professional help
- Reactions: 71
- Posts: 1035
- Joined: Tue Nov 10, 2009 3:19 pm
- Location: Right behind you
John, I forgot you were a nurse so I apologize for sounding patronizing.
I also think that most rational people would agree that you can't have "open borders" and "social welfare" but it takes political will to control immigration and I just don't see it happening on either side.
Trump promised as part of his election mandate but hasn't really done anything and I don't think he really wants to. Open borders benefit the same "crony capitalists."
I also think that most rational people would agree that you can't have "open borders" and "social welfare" but it takes political will to control immigration and I just don't see it happening on either side.
Trump promised as part of his election mandate but hasn't really done anything and I don't think he really wants to. Open borders benefit the same "crony capitalists."
Johnsell50 wrote: ↑Fri Apr 19, 2019 10:25 amI do have a problem with our heathcare system paying bills for non-citizens, millions of them, most who will never contribute to the tax base that pays for this at all, and for Americans who either refuse to work, or work off the books so everyone else has to pay for healthcare education etc. for their progeny.
-
- I have some social problems
- Reactions: 0
- Posts: 518
- Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2019 10:49 am
The problem is that most "Republican" politicians never wanted Trump in the first place and are now what are termed "RINO's" = Republican in name only because they will not vote for anything Trump proposes simply because he is Trump even though they are the same ideas and ideals proposed by them over many years. The same as many Democrats who have supported border barriers vehemenantly for many years. If Trump likes it, they are against it.Hot_Pink_Urinal_Mint wrote: ↑Fri Apr 19, 2019 10:57 amJohn, I forgot you were a nurse so I apologize for sounding patronizing.
I also think that most rational people would agree that you can't have "open borders" and "social welfare" but it takes political will to control immigration and I just don't see it happening on either side.
Trump promised as part of his election mandate but hasn't really done anything and I don't think he really wants to. Open borders benefit the same "crony capitalists."
Johnsell50 wrote: ↑Fri Apr 19, 2019 10:25 amI do have a problem with our heathcare system paying bills for non-citizens, millions of them, most who will never contribute to the tax base that pays for this at all, and for Americans who either refuse to work, or work off the books so everyone else has to pay for healthcare education etc. for their progeny.
"A day without learning is a day lost!"
- Sonic1
- I need professional help
- Reactions: 89
- Posts: 1034
- Joined: Sat Nov 08, 2014 5:46 am
- Location: On the edge of the Milky Way...
This working American will be voting for the candidate who has the best health care plan while advocating for the removal of the electoral college. I vote independent. Always have. Lets just say you are not exactly wooing my vote. Do me a favor. Should you ever make it to Cambodia do ware your MAGA hat to the bar.Johnsell50 wrote: ↑Fri Apr 19, 2019 6:24 amAll of the shining examples of government run health care systems around the world (HIC) should be enough to make most, if not all working Americans, very wary of any such system. It is sad to see that some are still so highly indoctrinated by their left wing colleges and news sources to still believe government can run anything effectively. Haven't they been screwed enough? The only thing these programs do is raise costs for workers to pay for those who don't want to work. It is a simple enough equation even Democrats should understand.
Freedom is not a state. It is an act. It is not some enchanted garden perched high on a distant plateau.. Freedom is a continuous action we all must take, and each generation must do its part to create an even more fair, more just society.-John Lewis
-
- I have some social problems
- Reactions: 0
- Posts: 518
- Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2019 10:49 am
It is very hard to woo a solid leftist even if he claims to be an independent. And all getting rid of the electoral college does is skew all elections to the population centers which are all liberal and would make the rest of the country have no voice at all. This is why the electoral college is in place and why the left wants it to disappear but you knew that. Nothing much will be done on health care because the RINO's want Trump to fail, just as nothing was done on the wall when he had both majorities. I don't wear hats but if I did, no problem.
"A day without learning is a day lost!"
- newnewnewbie
- I drive a Lada
- Reactions: 2
- Posts: 832
- Joined: Tue May 01, 2018 6:40 am
The health care system in the US as well as Europe is owned by big pharma. Many doctors prescribe treatments they would avoid themselves. They are bought up by attending all sorts of conferences at luxurious resorts, where most of the time is spent on lavish dining and playing golf. I can't see why that should be paid by the government via taxes, .. why should I be paying for people getting cancer from a chemical lifestyle. I'd keep it to emergency care, so that no one will be left bleeding to death from traffic accidents etc. But all the women getting breast cancer from dying their hair fake blond with L'oreal and drinking diet coke is really not my problem. I'd say avoid the yearly 'checkup' and all the fancy colonoscopy and endoscopy bull. Face death head on without the hypochondriacy. It's all in the mind, as any sane rationalist would agree on.
, Cheers!
, Cheers!
-
- Similar Topics
- Replies
- Views
- Last post
-
- 19 Replies
- 5538 Views
-
Last post by spitthedog
Tue Jul 02, 2019 4:45 pm
-
-
How they stop sexual assault in Finland
by Ned's missing cat » Tue Mar 03, 2020 3:31 am » in 'Not' Cambodia - 5 Replies
- 2025 Views
-
Last post by Playboy
Tue Mar 03, 2020 11:37 am
-
-
-
Still Hacked- Gotta Take Care of It!
by Savittre » Sat May 09, 2020 6:05 pm » in The IT and Techy Forum - 18 Replies
- 4535 Views
-
Last post by DilipVoltaire
Thu May 14, 2020 8:46 pm
-
-
- 14 Replies
- 4816 Views
-
Last post by v12
Sun May 05, 2019 2:31 pm
-
- 11 Replies
- 3380 Views
-
Last post by Felgerkarb
Wed Jun 17, 2020 12:57 pm